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Iona Nutters speak: People can't be Catholic and pro-abortion

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  • 27-08-2012 3:04pm
    #1
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/iona-rep-people-cant-be-catholic-and-pro-abortion-564549.html

    Iona rep: People can't be Catholic and pro-abortion



    Monday, August 27, 2012 - 01:19 PM
    A senior theologian has said you cannot consider yourself a Catholic and be open to abortion.

    Dr John Murray of the Iona Institute made the comments after the head of the Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, said the church plans to lobby TDs and ministers on abortion in the coming months.




    I would like these people to issue this blanket statement again in regards to their beliefs about gays, co habiting couples, church attendance, the pope, etc.


    I also agree with the governments views on religious freaks trying to tell the rest of us what to do.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    "Open to abotion". Such vile, self-serving language.

    Where is the 'vomit' smilie?


  • Options
    #3
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    That's me out so!


  • Options
    #4
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    People can't be Catholic and pro-abortion
    Fun to see Murray usurp the Vatican in telling people what constitutes a "Catholic".


  • Options
    #5
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Reacting to the first public Civil Partnership ceremonies which are took place yesterday, Dr John Murray of The Iona Institute said:


    “We hope Civil Partnerships will not become a stepping stone to same-sex marriage. Permitting same-sex marriage would destroy the most essential message marriage as a social institution conveys to society, namely that children ideally "


    what a lovely man with sound logical idea's


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    #6
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Dr Murray said that it should, “be borne in mind that most religious values can be defended using reason alone."

    Any more comments from this whack job?


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    #7
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    well, in reference to the thread title, i suspect they're probably right.


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    #8
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Sounds correct, given the catechism. http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/catechismonabortion.htm Being a Roman Catholic means accepting the teaching authority of the Church.


  • Options
    #9
    Newaglish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Newaglish


    I don't hugely disagree with him to be honest. There are only so many church teachings you can ignore while still considering yourself a member of that church.


  • Options
    #10
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Newaglish wrote: »
    I don't hugely disagree with him to be honest. There are only so many church teachings you can ignore while still considering yourself a member of that church.

    The answer is, in fact, zero.
    Disagree with the RCC on anything and they don't think you are one of them.
    You are actually a heretic, which is a great word.


  • Options
    #11
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    A few years ago I'd imagine that statements like that in the OP would have scared people into voting against abortion for the sake of being Catholic. Now, I could seriously see it angering people into voting for it to distance themselves from that despicable organisation.


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    #12
    Blackhorse Slim
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 1,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    Cool, sounds like a new alternative to "countmeout".


  • Options
    #13
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Sarky wrote: »
    A few years ago I'd imagine that statements like that in the OP would have scared people into voting against abortion for the sake of being Catholic. Now, I could seriously see it angering people into voting for it to distance themselves from that despicable organisation.

    I wonder will it become like the party whip system. I can see the headlines now.

    Bishop informs everyone baptised RC to vote NO to abortion, the party leadership could therefore require non compliant catholics to be deselected as a catholic by removing his or her name from the baptisimal List. Other members who refuse to fully obey the instructions of Catholic Central Office can have their Association suspended, and be refused sacraments, church attending etc. This would also apply to breaking any of the churches rules.


  • Options
    #14
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    so I vote yes to abortions I can be kicked out? excellent..


  • Options
    #15
    human 19
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭human 19


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    The answer is, in fact, zero.
    Disagree with the RCC on anything and they don't think you are one of them.
    You are actually a heretic, which is a great word.

    Oh, but I am still one of them,because they wont let me out.

    Do Iona say the same about contraception, me wonders?


  • Options
    #16
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,976 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    human 19 wrote: »
    Oh, but I am still one of them,because they wont let me out.

    Do Iona say the same about contraception, me wonders?

    As immature and petty as it sounds, nothing has made me want me to vote Yest to abortion more than the facist Catholic Church telling people to vote No.

    Reasonable arguments can be made for yes and no but anything that goes against the power of organised religion is a good thing.


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    #17
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Iona Nutters Speak...

    There was no need for any more comments after these 3 words!


  • Options
    #18
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    More Iona views.

    I thought a Doctor's responsibilities were only to his patient.



    “Dr Boyle practices his profession in accordance with his Catholic convictions"


    http://www.ionainstitute.ie/index.php?id=569


    The Iona Institute has condemned the treatment of a Catholic doctor by the Fitness to Practice Committee of the Irish Medical Council.

    As reported in the current issue of The Irish Catholic, Dr Phil Boyle appeared before the Fitness to Practice Committee last week on a charge of ‘professional misconduct’.

    Dr Boyle runs a fertility treatment service in Galway Clinic in accordance with Catholic teaching and his ‘offence’ was not to offer his service to an unmarried couple who contacted his office.


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    #19
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,481 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You couldn't make this stuff up. On the one hand they're saying you can't be a Catholic unless you agree with X, Y and Z, on the other hand they say that baptism is for life and irrevocable and do not allow you to 'officially' leave.

    As cultural Catholics drift away and moderate clergy become increasingly disillusioned, the fundamentalists and extremists are coming to the fore, like the tide going out on a wreck. The best thing we can do is just ignore them. They don't represent anything more than a small and rapidly diminishing section of society.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #20
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,481 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    More Iona views.

    I thought a Doctor's responsibilities were only to his patient.

    This is the only non-pay, non-nutty website I could find with the outcome of this:

    http://www.emigrant.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77492
    Irish Emigrant wrote:
    Doctor cleared of professional misconduct

    Dr Phil Boyle has been cleared of professional misconduct by the fitness to practise committee of the Medical Council after he had refused to offer fertility treatment to an unmarried couple. Dr Boyle, who runs the fertility unit at the Galway Clinic, had his hearing held in private at the request of the complainant.

    The committee found that the couple seeking treatment had not become Dr Boyle’s patients and it was not therefore within his power to refer them to another doctor. The fertility treatment offered by the clinic is one that is fully compatible with the Catholic Church's teaching on reproduction.

    So, technically he had no responsibility to them because they weren't his patients - so is a doctor really allowed discriminate in relation to who they agree to take on as patients, and on the basis of a religious dogma?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #21
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Would he treat patients who had a civil wedding rather than any church wedding??
    In the eyes of the church these people would not be married :)
    He's a nutter!!!


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    #22
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    ninja900 wrote: »
    This is the only non-pay, non-nutty website I could find with the outcome of this:

    http://www.emigrant.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77492


    So, technically he had no responsibility to them because they weren't his patients - so is a doctor really allowed discriminate in relation to who they agree to take on as patients, and on the basis of a religious dogma?

    If it doesn't fall under professional misconduct then it surely will fall under our state equality laws.


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    #23
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    If it doesn't fall under professional misconduct then it surely will fall under our state equality laws.

    I wish.


    On the 2nd May this year FF proposed a Bill to Protect Gay Teachers and Medical Staff


    "If the Bill is enacted, schools and hospitals will still be entitled to insist that staff members demonstrate respect towards their ethos and not actively seek to undermine it. However, they will not be permitted to treat staff or potential staff differently simply because of their sexual orientation or marital/civil status. In addition to protecting LGBT staff, the Bill would also prevent discrimination against teachers who are separated, divorced or unmarried with children," she said.


    According to Senator Power, "As the law currently stands, a school or hospital could claim that hiring a gay teacher, doctor or nurse would undermine their religious ethos. Such discrimination is specifically permitted under Section 37 of the Employment Equality Act.



    And the government response



    The government voted down the bill after Justice Minister Alan Shatter said that he was unsure if the bill would be able to pass “constitutional muster” despite Education Minister Ruairí Quinn saying last month that he would support legislation to end discrimination.


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    #24
    Undergod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    "Religious group expects people to adhere to religion's teachings."

    ...what exactly is shocking here?


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    #25
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    [QUOTE=Undergod;80605229]"Religious group expects people to adhere to religion's teachings."

    ...what exactly is shocking here?[/QUOTE]

    ...Sometimes :D


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    #26
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Undergod wrote: »
    "Religious group expects people to adhere to religion's teachings."

    ...what exactly is shocking here?

    Damned straight. I'm with Iona on this one. I've mentioned it in other threads but the RCC are entitled to make their own rules just as I as a non-member should be entitled to ignore them.

    I really wish more people would realise what it takes to be Catholic. Most would figure out pretty quickly that they aren't Catholic and could never be.


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    #27
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Damned straight. I'm with Iona on this one. I've mentioned it in other threads but the RCC are entitled to make their own rules just as I as a non-member should be entitled to ignore them.

    I really wish more people would realise what it takes to be Catholic. Most would figure out pretty quickly that they aren't Catholic and could never be.
    With that in mind, the increasingly conservative and retrograde rhetoric coming out of the Vatican is perhaps one of the best things that could happen for Ireland if it keeps up.


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