Help to find/pick

boppob

I need a laptop so am looking for some help in finding a suitable one.
I need to be able to use it in college, note taking, work etc. and as somewhat of a replacement for a pc at least most of the time.

I want a kind of an all rounder, I do a bit of graphic,photo,video editing but nothing major and no very intensive stuff.

I like to game a little but again nothing too wild, I'd like to be able to buy recent enough releases without melting a hole in the laptop though so a fairly good graphics card and preferably a laptop that runs reasonably cool at least for the day to day stuff.

I was thinking around a 14" screen but am open to opinions on this, I would like a good quality screen but I know laptop screens are only reasonable at best.

I'm thinking around 8GB ram, I really like quick laptops and quick startup times so was thinking of an SSD as well as or instead of a hard disk.
I do want a cd drive, I would think with my budget a good dvd drive will be the max.

I'll be using it for a good bit of typing so want something easy enough to type on.

Apart from the above I suppose just the usual stuff, few usb plugs, bluetooth etc. I do want a good quality rig as I hope to get a few years out of it, I know longevity and laptops don't go hand in hand but I'd like a decent build quality.

Budget is up to €800 but could stretch a little for the right one, I think I'm be very optimistic with my wants for the budget but no harm in being optimistic:)

Thanks guys for any help and opinions.

Torqay

Lenovo's 14" Ultrabook looks neat, but just outside your budget at €899 (komplett)

3rd gen. Core i7 (ULV, so it has only two cores)
8 GB RAM
Nvidia GT 610M (not exactly suitable for gaming)
32 GB SSD / 1 TB HDD hybrid solution

HDMI, USB 3.0 but no optical drive

Overheal

Not very many "Ultrabooks" will have an internal optical drive. Externals are convenient enough for infrequent use.

HP is trying to underpin the Ultrabook market with it's sleekbook line but you wont see that over there yet, probably. When you do they're basically ultras with i3/i5s or AMD CPUs and either SSDs or SSD-Hybrids (like the Lenovo mentioned). When you want an ultra on a budget, thats what theyll be around for.

a 2 core i7 wouldnt be all that bad. In all honesty though the best thing I've seen is the ASUS Zenbook or the Zenbook Prime, these have the i5-3xxx and 4gb of ram. HD 3000/4000 graphics would be fine for light gaming [new releases on low settings], the rest of the rig is designed to be bashed around a bit and be slick as a unicorn, with boot times that fall below 15 seconds. For school on a high budget it's my #1 reccomendation for it's size, speed, and magnesium body - you can **** it into a bag and not feel like you are abusing a precious little plastic flower. Toqay's suggestion also looks legit and it's a little closer to the spec you mentioned.

I have 8gb and game but the system just isn't taking the extra memory in general. Worthwhile for the future but you can live just fine on 4gb for some time to come.

Though the article someone linked to last week about a RAM Drive was mighty tempting justification for a 32GB RAM system. You know - if you're clinically deranged and already own 2 cars.

Depending on your classes also look at adding a Wacom tablet to your purchase. I see a bunch of guys using them in Calculus (I just use a tablet with the wacom tech on the screen) and frankly they're the best way to go for keeping your notes digitized. Especially when I have to take 4 semesters of Calculus, I need notes that are Searchable and Backedthehellup.

boppob

Torqay wrote: »

Lenovo's 14" Ultrabook looks neat, but just outside your budget at €899 (komplett)

3rd gen. Core i7 (ULV, so it has only two cores)
8 GB RAM
Nvidia GT 610M (not exactly suitable for gaming)
32 GB SSD / 1 TB HDD hybrid solution

HDMI, USB 3.0 but no optical drive

It is nice, I had looked at it, how bad is that graphics card? would it be able for the newish games and games down the line if I wasn't planning on playing them on very high quality.

I have a heard/read a good bit of negativity towards the hybrids, I know they are no match for the proper SSD setups but are they a good compromise?
How do they work? is the operating system installed on the SSD component or does it just act like a pre loaded buffer so that the regularly used files can be accessed very quickly.

Overheal wrote: »

Not very many "Ultrabooks" will have an internal optical drive. Externals are convenient enough for infrequent use.

Yeah I suppose I could buy an external dvd or even a blueray drive and feck it the bag if I need it.

Overheal wrote: »

a 2 core i7 wouldnt be all that bad. In all honesty though the best thing I've seen is the ASUS Zenbook or the Zenbook Prime, these have the i5-3xxx and 4gb of ram. HD 3000/4000 graphics would be fine for light gaming [new releases on low settings], the rest of the rig is designed to be bashed around a bit and be slick as a unicorn, with boot times that fall below 15 seconds. For school on a high budget it's my #1 reccomendation for it's size, speed, and magnesium body - you can **** it into a bag and not feel like you are abusing a precious little plastic flower. Toqay's suggestion also looks legit and it's a little closer to the spec you mentioned.

I have 8gb and game but the system just isn't taking the extra memory in general. Worthwhile for the future but you can live just fine on 4gb for some time to come.

Do you know is the ram fixed on them or could I upgrade it down the line if needed?
They're nice and clean looking and if they're fairly tough then they may be a possible match.
I assume the inbuilt graphics be fine for watching/streaming HD movies, blueray etc..

Overheal wrote: »

Depending on your classes also look at adding a Wacom tablet to your purchase. I see a bunch of guys using them in Calculus (I just use a tablet with the wacom tech on the screen) and frankly they're the best way to go for keeping your notes digitized. Especially when I have to take 4 semesters of Calculus, I need notes that are Searchable and Backedthehellup.

I dunno if a Wacom would suit me or not, I have some movement/disability problems so this is one of the reasons I'll be using a laptop for some of my notes but I'll think about it, maybe it might be a good option.


Would there be much of a difference in the i5 vs i7 would the i5 be very dated in a couple of years?

Thanks for the help guys it very much appreciated.

Torqay

boppob wrote: »

I have a heard/read a good bit of negativity towards the hybrids, I know they are no match for the proper SSD setups but are they a good compromise?
How do they work? is the operating system installed on the SSD component or does it just act like a pre loaded buffer so that the regularly used files can be accessed very quickly.

Well, it's not a exactly hybrid drive. How I understand it, Lenovo is using a 32 GB mSATA SSD as cache for the platter hard disk drive, which is exactly how hybrid drives work.

boppob wrote: »

It is nice, I had looked at it, how bad is that graphics card? would it be able for the newish games and games down the line if I wasn't planning on playing them on very high quality.

Well, it depends on the games you want to play.

The GT 610M is absolute entry level. If you want to play some modern 3D shooter, with your budget you might find a GT 630M but only in a regular 15.6" laptop with a core i7 more suitable. And even with that GPU such games will only play with very modest details.

14" gaming laptops are much more expensive. Ultrabooks in general are not made for gaming, in fact most of them only use Intel HD 4000 graphics. If you looking for a decent performer with great mobility, the Lenovo U410 is for you, if you want to play games it is not.

bonzer1again

I've ordered a couple of these the other day and to be honest they are quite impressive for the price.
http://www.dell.com/ie/p/xps-15z/pd

happy hunting!!

Torqay

bonzer1again wrote: »

I've ordered a couple of these the other day and to be honest they are quite impressive for the price.
http://www.dell.com/ie/p/xps-15z/pd

happy hunting!!

770 yoyos for a 15.6" laptop with a 2nd gen Core i5 is a bit steep. And the GT 525M is not exactly a killer GPU either, ranked somewhere between the current 610M and 630M. You'll get 15.6" laptops with a 3rd gen. Core i5 and a GT 630M for 200 Euro less elsewhere.

Just checked on the US website, the XPS 15z is obviously discontinued and they have been flogged in clearance sales in the US, and yet here they're still asking the full price and then some?

boppob

Torqay wrote: »

Well, it depends on the games you want to play.

The GT 610M is absolute entry level. If you want to play some modern 3D shooter, with your budget you might find a GT 630M but only in a regular 15.6" laptop with a core i7 more suitable. And even with that GPU such games will only play with very modest details.

14" gaming laptops are much more expensive. Ultrabooks in general are not made for gaming, in fact most of them only use Intel HD 4000 graphics. If you looking for a decent performer with great mobility, the Lenovo U410 is for you, if you want to play games it is not.

Yeah I suppose its an either or decision, I'm not gonna get one that'll fit all my wants for that price, do you think I'm in the right line of thinking with keeping around the 14" mark? 15 being a little bulky for carrying and 12" being a little small for working with college, never bothered with laptops too much as I always used a desktop, so do you think 14" should be the max size?

Game wise, eh I don't game that much bit of GTA or similar, few good war games and so on.

1TB is huge for me, can't imagine ever needing all that space but anyway.

Thanks again, I'll probably be back with more questions to annoy you all with:D

I'm still not decided so if anyone wants to suggest any other potential matches I'm happy to check them out.
Thanks

Overheal

To your earlier question I do not know if the ram can be upgraded on the ultrabooks. Probably, but I've gotten some feedback that sometimes it's soldered in and Im sorry but I cant remember which model the customer was referring to.

i5 would be grand, i7 is higher performance obviously. Both wont be 'dated' quickly, performance-wise they won't become "Meh" for about 6 years, as processors. The Core2Duo in my 6 year old HP is only now at the point where it's getting it's lunch money taken by new budget CPUs but it still packs heat (that was a $1000+ machine though..). HD 3000/4000 graphics can still play games like Fallout 3, for example. On the 610M, if the old 8400M GS could run Crysis (verry slowly, at 5-10 FPS, but I still beat it!) then relatively speaking it won't be absolute muck, but it is the entry level 600 series card, it's no george clooney.

Torqay

The Lenovo already has 8 GB RAM, I don't think you'll find yourself in the market for memory upgrades in the foreseeable future.

To paraphrase Bill (who never said it): 8GB ought to be enough for everyone!

boppob

Overheal wrote: »

To your earlier question I do not know if the ram can be upgraded on the ultrabooks. Probably, but I've gotten some feedback that sometimes it's soldered in and Im sorry but I cant remember which model the customer was referring to.

i5 would be grand, i7 is higher performance obviously. Both wont be 'dated' quickly, performance-wise they won't become "Meh" for about 6 years, as processors. The Core2Duo in my 6 year old HP is only now at the point where it's getting it's lunch money taken by new budget CPUs but it still packs heat (that was a $1000+ machine though..). HD 3000/4000 graphics can still play games like Fallout 3, for example. On the 610M, if the old 8400M GS could run Crysis (verry slowly, at 5-10 FPS, but I still beat it!) then relatively speaking it won't be absolute muck, but it is the entry level 600 series card, it's no george clooney.

Torqay wrote: »

The Lenovo already has 8 GB RAM, I don't think you'll find yourself in the market for memory upgrades in the foreseeable future.

To paraphrase Bill (who never said it): 8GB ought to be enough for everyone!

Yeah the 8 in the Lenovo is as much if not more than I'll need in a portable setup but I was more thinking of the ASUS ultrabooks but even then I guess your only gonna get about 2-3 years out of a laptop without having to replace the battery so 4GB would prob be fine as Overheal said.

I have a friend in IT who is trying to get me to go for a 15-16" screen as they are nicer to use and tend to have better spec graphic cards and optical drives for reasonable(ish) prices but I suppose I'm thinking they'd be too big for college and have crappier battery life.

Torqay

boppob wrote: »

I have a friend in IT who is trying to get me to go for a 15-16" screen as they are nicer to use and tend to have better spec graphic cards and optical drives for reasonable(ish) prices but I suppose I'm thinking they'd be too big for college and have crappier battery life.

If you don't mind a regular 15.6" display, your 800 Euro budget will open a whole new world of gaming. Of course, a decent graphics card will draw much more juice from the battery so you better bid farewell to mobility.

boppob

Torqay wrote: »

If you don't mind a regular 15.6" display, your 800 Euro budget will open a whole new world of gaming. Of course, a decent graphics card will draw much more juice from the battery so you better bid farewell to mobility.

Yup, if I went that way I'd probably be tying myself to a charger.
I'd guess 7-8 hours vs 4-6 probably.


I have feck all experiance with laptops and college so I assumed anything bigger than 14" would be too big and awkward for college but maybe I'm wrong.
If anyone who uses/used a laptop for notes and such in college wants to chime in about screen size, mobility, ultrabook vs notebook, etc. it'd be welcome.

Overheal

The first thing that worried me about ultrabooks was the built-in battery but in all fairness on many models, they are easilly replaced, if just internal (so they aren't hot-swap designed) and besides I've had old laptops run very well on their batteries. I have a 6 year old laptop that still has well more than half its original maximum charge capacity. And in the intervening time battery tech has gotten better, we have improved Li-On batteries with higher density charge capacities and better charge-control hardware to prevent overcharging. Lithium Polymer batteries are out there too.

If there were more 15.6" laptops with SSDs or were a lot thinner than current models (ie. lighter) I'd consider them more often but the ultrabooks are the best purchase you can make for college tbh.

TheAmateur

I spent about 6 months lugging a 17" HP around college. Incredibly annoying, couldn't even fit the thing into my bag so had to carry it in a suitcase!

I then bought a 15.5" Vaio E series which I could fit into my bag (woohoo), but it was still too heavy and cumbersome to recommend for college. The Vaio also had the problem of being quite a delicate little flower, not a sturdy laptop at all, so I was in a constant state of worry about putting heavy things into the bag, being too rough with the bag, things hitting the bag, sudden changes in humidity (ok not that last one but you get the idea).

When my sister asked for a good laptop for everyday college use last year, I recommended an 11.6" Lenovo S205. The thing is still going strong and has been perfect for her needs. I'm actually quite jealous of it. I don't think it would have enough power for you though.

I'm now in the process of trying to get my brother to buy a 13.3" Lenovo Edge E330 for €480 for college, based on good reviews of the model and my sister's Lenovo experiences. LaptopsDirect are looking for €720 for the same laptop, just for the luxury of an O/S (pfft, my brother can get a student copy) and a UK keyboard (pfft, I can get one of those off eBay for €35).

I'd actually recommend the Lenovo E330 or similar 13.3" for you as well. I think it's the perfect balance between portability and power (jesus I sound like a sales guy). Also, Thinkpads are built like tractors and their keyboards are legendarily good.

TheAmateur

TheAmateur wrote: »

I spent about 6 months lugging a 17" HP around college. Incredibly annoying, couldn't even fit the thing into my bag so had to carry it in a suitcase!

I then bought a 15.5" Vaio E series which I could fit into my bag (woohoo), but it was still too heavy and cumbersome to recommend for college. The Vaio also had the problem of being quite a delicate little flower, not a sturdy laptop at all, so I was in a constant state of worry about putting heavy things into the bag, being too rough with the bag, things hitting the bag, sudden changes in humidity (ok not that last one but you get the idea).

When my sister asked for a good laptop for everyday college use last year, I recommended an 11.6" Lenovo S205. The thing is still going strong and has been perfect for her needs. I'm actually quite jealous of it. I don't think it would have enough power for you though.

I'm now in the process of trying to get my brother to buy a 13.3" Lenovo Edge E330 for €480 for college, based on good reviews of the model and my sister's Lenovo experiences. LaptopsDirect are looking for €720 for the same laptop, just for the luxury of an O/S (pfft, my brother can get a student copy) and a UK keyboard (pfft, I can get one of those off eBay for €35).

I'd actually recommend the Lenovo E330 or similar 13.3" for you as well. I think it's the perfect balance between portability and power (jesus I sound like a sales guy). Also, Thinkpads are built like tractors and their keyboards are legendarily good.

keeping pushing this advice myself. 14" or 13.3" and 2kg or under or you'll get sick of carrying it around. that lenovo 13.3" would do fine unless you're planning on gaming a lot. a lot of the advice you get here sometimes promotes power at the expense of portability.

boppob

Overheal wrote: »

If there were more 15.6" laptops with SSDs or were a lot thinner than current models (ie. lighter) I'd consider them more often but the ultrabooks are the best purchase you can make for college tbh.

Yeah I'd probably end up hating a 2.5-3kg maching hanging off my back so I'll stick to the smaller machines, I like the zenbooks but they are still very expensive.

TheAmateur wrote: »

I'd actually recommend the Lenovo E330 or similar 13.3" for you as well. I think it's the perfect balance between portability and power (jesus I sound like a sales guy). Also, Thinkpads are built like tractors and their keyboards are legendarily good.

Thanks for replying, very helpful insight, as above I'll stick with the smaller size.

glasso wrote: »

keeping pushing this advice myself. 14" or 13.3" and 2kg or under or you'll get sick of carrying it around. that lenovo 13.3" would do fine unless you're planning on gaming a lot. a lot of the advice you get here sometimes promotes power at the expense of portability.

Just happened on this while browsing http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=MMES6023H4, what do you guys think?
Its over 1K but I may find it cheaper somewhere else, not set on it or anything just looking, 14", 1.8kg, 3rd gen i5, 4GB, DVD drive, 16SSD 500GB Hybrid style harddrive.
Its a business style thinkpad but battery life would probably be the problem, its claimed at up to 6hrs so in reality probably 4-5 I suppose.

boppob

boppob wrote: »

Yeah I'd probably end up hating a 2.5-3kg maching hanging off my back so I'll stick to the smaller machines, I like the zenbooks but they are still very expensive.



Thanks for replying, very helpful insight, as above I'll stick with the smaller size.




Just happened on this while browsing http://www.elara.ie/productdetail.aspx?productcode=MMES6023H4, what do you guys think?
Its over 1K but I may find it cheaper somewhere else, not set on it or anything just looking, 14", 1.8kg, 3rd gen i5, 4GB, DVD drive, 16SSD 500GB Hybrid style harddrive.
Its a business style thinkpad but battery life would probably be the problem, its claimed at up to 6hrs so in reality probably 4-5 I suppose.

if you're thinking of spending that much why not consider one of the updated asus ultabooks.

http://ultrabooknews.com/2012/05/10/asus-announces-ivy-bridge-ux32aux32vd-zenbook-ultrabooks-with-discrete-nvidia-graphics-and-more-ports-video/#more-3210

don't bother with internal dvd-drive imo. you can buy an external one (for when you need it) for €30.

boppob

glasso wrote: »

if you're thinking of spending that much why not consider one of the updated asus ultabooks.

http://ultrabooknews.com/2012/05/10/asus-announces-ivy-bridge-ux32aux32vd-zenbook-ultrabooks-with-discrete-nvidia-graphics-and-more-ports-video/#more-3210

don't bother with internal dvd-drive imo. you can buy an external one (for when you need it) for €30.

I have looked at the Zenbooks as Overheal had recommended them, they're really nice but I wasn't really planning on spending 1K for the Lenovo I linked, I was hoping to find it cheaper and was just looking to see what you guys thought of it as much as anything, I see a German site with it for €759 but I don't really want to started switching keyboards and such.

Overheal

boppob wrote: »

I have looked at the Zenbooks as Overheal had recommended them, they're really nice but I wasn't really planning on spending 1K for the Lenovo I linked, I was hoping to find it cheaper and was just looking to see what you guys thought of it as much as anything, I see a German site with it for €759 but I don't really want to started switching keyboards and such.

You can also look for the cheaper Toshiba Portege', but bear in mind those have i3s and while they are far lighter than even the zenbook, there's virtually nothing but a plastic wrapper around the screen - it's frighteningly flimsy.

boppob

Overheal wrote: »

You can also look for the cheaper Toshiba Portege', but bear in mind those have i3s and while they are far lighter than even the zenbook, there's virtually nothing but a plastic wrapper around the screen - it's frighteningly flimsy.

Thanks again for the help but I hate flimsy tech, I always feel edgy with it, like every jolt or knock could feck it up.

boppob

Dragging this back up again,

I had more or less settled on the Lenovo U410 but while reading around I discovered the u310&u410's made before the end of July a have a fault in the wifi and its a hardware issue so needs replacement parts, 40-50 page thread on the lenovo support forum about it.

So anything after the 27th of July is supposed to be fine, the problem is one of the guys over on the Komplett forum can't say what the manufacture date is, so what would you guys reckon? with the turnover of tech in Komplett would it likely be a august build or still a July or earlier?

I have enough other problems without having send it back or mess with repairs.

Overheal

Depending on the config the wifi card is painless to swap out, if Lenovo wants to ship them out to people. It was a 5 minute job on my HP laptop. Or, it would have been, if I wasnt trying to thread a new Wireless N antenna in the case as well, but the actual card for the sake of just replacing the card, only takes a second.

boppob

Thanks for replying,

The problem is Lenovo aren't saying what the specific problem is, apparently some departments don't even seem aware of the fault, wont send replacement parts and are saying the only way they will deal with it is to send the laptops back to a service centre and it may take 4 weeks.

Even though apparently they are all affected before this date they won't issue any kind of recall and are still making people jump through hoops, some on the thread claim Lenovo are still selling some older ones themselves, although they don't admit that.


I'd nearly be inclined to find an alternative but its hard to find anything matching it spec/battery life wise for that money, unless I go for an Asus, lower spec(I could deal with) but more money too.

boppob

Hey guys, the guys on the komplett forum aren't the best at replying so I'm back:D.

I'm still tempted by the lenovo so I'm considering getting it and if there's a problem with the wireless then I could buy a really small usb wifi adapter and use it instead as there are 4 usb's on the Lenovo.
I could then try to find out the exact problem and replace the internal card myself down the line when I have a break from college or something.

Would ^this^ be madness? and would it work? do you guys know if the really small usb wifi plugins have any good of range.
My past experiance is that I can often be more careful with tech than someone in a repair place somewhere, but if the card was soldered or something then that could be a different matter.

Komplett do have a decent Asus ultrabook too but its a €1000 and that's a little more than I'm comfortable with at the moment and battery life isn't as good as the lenovo.

If it becomes necessary do any of you guys know what komplett are like for returns replacements etc..
Also I see that usually their laptops have US keyboards, would I notice any problems with this? I assume once I set the language and keyboard settings that it'll be more or less the same or am I wrong?

Thanks