Help, I think my grandad has lost the plot - Mod Warning Post 1

LegacyUser

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I live in a town, and frequently visit my grandparents who live in the country. They live on a farm, but don't farm themselves - and rent the land out to a local farmer. The farmer has recently not just let cattle into one of my grandparents fields, but a bull as well. Half of the farm owned my grandparents (3 fields) is right behind their house. The field behind the house has two gate entrances - one coming in from the courtyard, and one about 200 hundred feet away into the next field.

Basically my grandad decides that he'll move the cattle and bull into the next field) because the ground they are feeding on is too soggy and damp. I asked him what he was thinking after he came back into the house and if what he had done wasn't a bit dangerous. He insisted that it wasn't because he insists that bulls are harmless if they are around cattle. I can't help but feel this is rubbish - because I have read countless internet articles not only describing dairy bulls as dangerous, but also unpredictable.

My grandad, basically a 77 year old man who can probably just about run waltzed into a field with a one tonne bull who can probably run at 15+mph, with nothing more than a walking stick and an assured belief that he was grand as long as their were cows with the bull. The bull does not have horns, but does is irrelevant - as a one tonne animal of this nature can kill a man stone dead with a charge, smack and trampling afterwards.

How the **** do I convince this elderly man to cop on and realise that he has no business at his age walking into a field with a herd inside, one of which was a bull, when he was pretty much stranded in their as the bull could easily have caught up with him before he reached the gate to the courtyard, and the rest of the field on the side he was on had fencing with barbered wire on top. Any sudden tick with that animal, and he had the old man trapped in the field.

I am thinking of informing my grandmother - but honestly I am beginning to think the man may need psychiatric help because he is not a farmer, and under no circumstances does he have the training for dealing with and herding a bull from field into another. I would like advice please. Thanks.

Astala

I can understand that you are worried and greatly concerned about your grand-dad. However, calling him the 'elderly man', 'old man' and suggesting he has psychiatric issues because he goes into a field with a bull, is downright disrespectful and quite frankly, arrogant of you.

Speak to your grandfather about this again and failing that, try your grandmother or any other relatives. He should not risk going into a field with a bull, particularly at his age but you must remember; this is a man for whom farming is a way of life. He trusts his cattle, and even though you may find it hard to understand, he sees no danger.


Please change your attitude towards this issue though, because the wording of your post is disparaging and very disrespectful to your grandfather.

My name is URL

Yeah, I think you may be overreacting just a little. Just because he isn't a farmer by trade doesn't mean that he is unaware of how to, or unable to move animals from one field to another. I'm not a farmer myself, but on occasion I have had to 'herd' animals which got into my garden from an adjoining field. Granted I'm not 77 either, but I reckon there's many 77 year olds which would be better suited than I to deal with a charging bull!

It's understandable that you'd be worried for his safety, but just because he's an older man doesn't not mean that he's incapable of doing such things. Instead of getting annoyed and talking down to him about it, perhaps you could simply & respectfully ask that he leaves the farming to the farmer, or failing that; ensure that he has some help when doing it himself.

rainbowtrout

msg24812 wrote: »

I live in a town, and frequently visit my grandparents who live in the country.

Without trying to be flippant once I read this sentence I was annoyed. If you have no farming experience yourself you really have no business telling your grandfather if he should be herding animals or not.

Farmers do get injured by bulls, and bulls can be aggressive. That does not mean that a farmer gets injured or killed every time they enter a field in which a bull is present. Nor does it mean a bull becomes aggressive every time it is approached by a human.

I'd say you should keep your nose out if you don't know anything about farming. How do you think farmers all over this country move bulls around every day of the week? It would seem apparent that you have no farming experience if your total knowledge of bulls being dangerous comes from the internet. If your grandfather lives in the country and owns land, there's a fair chance he has herded animals at some point in his life that you are unaware of.

It's really ignorant of you to say he needs psychiatric help for herding some animals.

Daisy M

If you are really worried speak with the farmer who owns the cattle, they are his business and he probably wouldnt be happy to know someone is moving them.

For the record no one should approach cattle when they do not know their temperment, all cattle have the potential to be dangerous some more than others.

LegacyUser

Astala wrote: »

I can understand that you are worried and greatly concerned about your grand-dad. However, calling him the 'elderly man', 'old man' and suggesting he has psychiatric issues because he goes into a field with a bull, is downright disrespectful and quite frankly, arrogant of you.

Speak to your grandfather about this again and failing that, try your grandmother or any other relatives. He should not risk going into a field with a bull, particularly at his age but you must remember; this is a man for whom farming is a way of life. He trusts his cattle, and even though you may find it hard to understand, he sees no danger.


Please change your attitude towards this issue though, because the wording of your post is disparaging and very disrespectful to your grandfather.

Ok, I'll admit op was a little bit disrespectful - but I was just extremely angry at what I saw. My grandad was also never a farmer He is originally from a town, were he and my grandmother lived for decades, before moving over to my grandmother's childhood family home, which has a farm attached - about a decade ago. So my grandad was never a farmer, nor had a history of herding or dealing with large animals.

LegacyUser

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Without trying to be flippant once I read this sentence I was annoyed. If you have no farming experience yourself you really have no business telling your grandfather if he should be herding animals or not.

Farmers do get injured by bulls, and bulls can be aggressive. That does not mean that a farmer gets injured or killed every time they enter a field in which a bull is present. Nor does it mean a bull becomes aggressive every time it is approached by a human.

I'd say you should keep your nose out if you don't know anything about farming. How do you think farmers all over this country move bulls around every day of the week? It would seem apparent that you have no farming experience if your total knowledge of bulls being dangerous comes from the internet. If your grandfather lives in the country and owns land, there's a fair chance he has herded animals at some point in his life that you are unaware of.

It's really ignorant of you to say he needs psychiatric help for herding some animals.

Keep my nose out of farming - what are you talking about, my grandad is not, and was never a farmer. In fact I would be the first person to say something that herding a dangerous animal like a bull is the business of farmers alone, and not somebody who simply lives beside a farm like my grandad. I also would trust and respect that farmers who have bulls, are well trained in how to deal with and handle them, my grandad is not under any circumstances.

And yes, I'm well aware that bulls don't always charge at humans - my grandad did make it out without any harm, but all it takes is for one bad day to send a person, with no experience of handing a large, aggressive animal like a bull - into the grave.

Stavro Mueller

I think your first port of call should be your gran if you feel you need to say something. Have a chat with her (not report him!) and tell her you're worried about your grandad going out into the field by himself with the bull. Before you do this, carefully work out the wording of what you're going to say to her in your head. If you come across in the way you did in this thread, you're going to have her back up almost as soon as you open your mouth. When I saw the subject heading, I thought I was going to read something about your granddad signing over his fortune to a cat's home, dancing naked in his local pub or taking up with a 20 year old. While I understand your concerns about him going into a field with a bull, your language is somewhat hysterical and over the top. Words like needing psychiatric assessment are inflammatory and won't help you get your point across.

While there is always going to be an element of danger when going into a field with a bull, I doubt your grandfather's a fool. At worst he may be naive but none of us knows your granddad.

Red21

Three farmers that live close to me are in their mid-80's they all still keep a small number of cattle with a bull and they manage just fine.
When people say a bull can be very dangerous the thinking is that you have to be vigiliant and use common sense, it's like driving a car the roads can be dangerous but you don't stop driving even though you hear this quiet often, it's a warning to be careful.
In a lot of cases a bull may become cross over a period of time, it's then when a farmer will consider getting rid of him, even if you had never seen a bull in your life you'd notice a change in a bull if you were keeping an eye on the cattle, which your grandfather must have been doing because he noticed the cattle cutting up the field. Yes, a bull can turn at any moment that said in the same way as a car can come around the bend on the wrong side of the road at any moment. The key is to be vigiliant and use common sense. No farmer has to keep a bull they can just use A.I do you really think a farmer would expose their families or themselves to any high level of danger every time they step onto the land?
There's no specific training for dealing with a bull you seem to be under the impression there is, well at least none that i'm aware of and if there is i'd imagine the about of farmers that have done such training would be very small.
Even if your grandfather only spent a very short time around cattle at any stage in his life, that with a bit of common sense is all he'd need to move the animals.
I'd imagine your GF looked onto the field saw the bull was just grazing with the other cows as he entered the field and approched the cattle, the bull wouldn't have reacted to him, when he got to the cattle they woulda started moving in the direction he was driving them, when the bull noticed the cows moving he would just walk in the general direction of the herd, there would be more danger of him being stuck by lightening at this point than the Bull suddenly deciding to freak out double back and attack your GF. Thats what he meant by being harmless around cattle, it's more that it's much easier to judge their temperment.

R.D. aka MR.D

Was this the first time in your grandfathers life that he was ever in a field with cattle?

Are you sure he doesn't give the farmer an odd hand now and again?

As another poster said there are farmers who much older than your grandfather all over the country dealing with animals everyday. They don't have 'special training'.

Put yourself in your grandfathers shoes, how would you feel if you had lived as long as he has and then had to put up with being talked down to by your grand son/daughter?

He is not a child.

Jen Pigs Fly

I'd worry more about the incalf-cows than the bull :rolleyes:

This is the stallion complex as I like to consider it, large intact male animal - bull/stallion/boar/etc - must be dangerous :rolleyes:

I'm sure your GD has enough common sense and the herd would know him at this point that it would be fine, I'd say he's watching them a lot to notice the ground getting dug up. Herd animals like cattle get to know specific people and learn if they're going to hurt them or not, if your GD visits the field often then they would recognise him as a non-threat

An understanding in animals generally helps, especially herd animals, I personally work closely with stallions on a daily basis, I prefer them to the infoal-mares who are more unpredictable!

Polygon_window

77 years in this world teaches you things, the man is probably not a fool...also is it not an instinctive thing when it comes to bulls and animals in general, some give the presence of i'm a mean ol mofo whilst others are more placid, i once went into a field and started talking to a bull when i was down Clare on the way home from the pub locked off my tits, it was a great chat, if anything the bull was trying to run away....

matrim

You are completly overeacting.

About the only thing your grandfather did wrong was move the animals without permission. It is not his land while he's renting it out so he should have left them there and called the farmer.

Ickle Magoo

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marzic

I dont know if the OP's grandad needs psychiatric help but I do believe the man is taking a quite a risk, especially if he has never been a farmer and is dealing with someone else's cattle. I googled farm fatalities and there was a report by Teagasc covering the period 1993 - 2007. Without going into too much detail it's findings showed that elderly farmers were most likely to have fatal accidents and the most likely cause being animal related - and these would have been experienced farmers. OP I would suggest that you try to be reasoned in your approach, I'm sure he wouldnt like you suggesting he needed to seek psychiatric help, as he likely doesnt - but I think you are right to be concerned and he doesnt appreciate the risk.

Perhaps suggest to him that bulls and cattle are unpredictable especially with strangers, even if he were to twist his ankle wouldnt he'd be laid up for a month, he should avoid doing it again for his own safety.

I dont know if its appropriate but I attached the link:
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2008/20080709/farm_fatalities_in_ireland.pdf

Galwayguy20

marzic wrote: »

Without going into too much detail it's findings showed that elderly farmers were most likely to have fatal accidents and the most likely cause being animal related - and these would have been experienced farmers.

This is true, however in my experience bulls are far and away at their most dangerous when they're being handled in enclosed areas such as a pen. I think that the high animal related deaths among elderly people may have something to do with this (I've had to escape over a five foot wall from a bull before, something many older people wouldn't be able to do).

In saying that, my grandmother won't go into a field with a bull, and i'd always be pretty wary of them too. But I don't think your grandfather was in much danger here. If a bull runs at you in an open field, it'll catch you whether you're 18 or 80.

Mighty_Mouse

convince this elderly man to cop on and realise that he has no business at his age

You are seriously lacking in respect for this man who happens to be your grandad.
be careful or your grandad will quickly hate you for it.

What gives you the right to treat this man like a child or some kind of doddery moron?He's old but not dead yet. He is a fully grown man, free to make his own decisions & mistakes.

The fact you know nothing about farming or country living only adds to how wrong you are in your approach to this issue

Fenian Army

Bulls can be grand animals, but they can "turn" usually over a period of time.

They arent the rabid beasts you read about in books, when they get like that its steak time

dudara

Are you concerned about your grandfather's mental capacity in any other way?

If he's still in full command of his facilities, then you should leave well alone. Yes, going into a field with a bull can be dangerous, but so can driving. We choose to do what we do, and you should accept that.

Pyr0

Why are people just completely missing the point in that his Grandfather is NOT a farmer and has ZERO experience with cattle, bulls, or farming, the OP has stated this more than once and yet, many posters ignore this and then go on to slate the OP's lack of farming experience and how he should 'not talk down' to his Grandfather.

Anyone, regardless of what age they are should not be trying to herd cattle or bulls from one field or another. It's simply common sense to have someone trained and experienced to do this for you, the OP's grandfather should not be doing this, especially at his age and physical condition.

Mighty_Mouse

especially at his age and physical condition.

This is the part that gets me.
Why should his grandad no longer be free to make his own stupid mistakes?
He is not mentally or physically incapacitated - just old.

He is 77 so could possibly live for another 10 years. Are the last years of his life to be spent making him feel like an old fart not able to look after himself?
Leave the old man alone FFS.

Esroh

Op
Ok you Grand father is 77 and a townie by birth ( My own was a townie by birth but spent his life as a Large Animal Vet) . But if he retired and went to the country 10 years ago he has not spent his days looking out the window.
I'd be pretty sure he has got quite involved in what the farmer has done with the cattle during that time. Helping out when they needed him. You will probably find he maybe actually checking the herd for the farmer on the days when they cannot get there.
If he was a stranger to the herd I can pretty much bet they would not have moved easily for him.

As has been said you do have to be wary of the Bull but I don't think you should be questioning your Grandfathers mental state.

marzic

dudara wrote: »

Are you concerned about your grandfather's mental capacity in any other way?

If he's still in full command of his facilities, then you should leave well alone. Yes, going into a field with a bull can be dangerous, but so can driving. We choose to do what we do, and you should accept that.

... the man might necessarily choose to drive in order to be able to practically lead his life and is doing so in a steel box with a seatbelt possibly airbags and other such safety equipment PLUS his experience of driving - the majority of crashes in cars are not fatal.

On the other hand, while rare, the majority of head on collisions with bulls are fatal! Does the man need to be going into a field with cattle and a bull which are not his own and he's not even a farmer? Not at all, and to suggest leave well enough alone and not address(albeit in a rational way) a real risk would be irresponsible in my view. Why does the OP have to be 'accepting' of the fact that his grandad has chosen to put himself in a situation which is risky and totally unnecessary?

Older people have falls and get hurt and these usually happen in their homes, while they are just trying to go about their lives - trips, slips and falls - they dont need to be going looking for no bull in a field.

To the OP I'd say handle it properly, rationally, but I encourage you to address it.

P. Breathnach

I think OP is right to be concerned, but didn't do too well in how that concern was expressed.

Perhaps the best person to advise OP's grandfather is a neighbour who is experienced with livestock, possibly the farmer whose herd he moved.

tony81

I knew a retired farmer whose health was going a bit down-hill. He got attacked by a cow and that's when his health really deteriorated to the point where he was bed-ridden shortly afterwards. As people get older both their minds and their bodies can fail them. There's no point in taking unnecessary risks. To me, that includes going into a field with a bull.

Stavro Mueller

What I find most objectionable is how the OP spoke about his grandad. If he feels he needs to talk to anyone about this he'd want to choose his words carefully.

Taltos

Can I remind all that this forum is strictly for advice.
Discussions can be held elsewhere.

If you wish to comment on the language used or something similar please don't post here. Keep your responses on topic and directed to the advice requested. All other posts will be viewed as off-topic and are a breach of our charter..

Thanks
Taltos

username123

Galwayguy20 wrote: »

In saying that, my grandmother won't go into a field with a bull, and i'd always be pretty wary of them too. But I don't think your grandfather was in much danger here. If a bull runs at you in an open field, it'll catch you whether you're 18 or 80.

Im inclined to agree with this.

However, I think the OP should calmly and respectfully treat his grandfather like he would any other adult, tell him that he has concerns about him going into fields with bulls and he(the op) would rather if he(the grandfather) didnt continue doing that. And then leave the man alone to make his own decisions and judgements in life.

People do stupid things at all ages. And people confuse ordinary non risky behaviour with stupid things at all ages because they do not know as much as they think they do.

At the end of the day you are dealing with an adult is is capable of making his own decisions.

Prick!

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I'd worry more about the incalf-cows than the bull :rolleyes:

This is the stallion complex as I like to consider it, large intact male animal - bull/stallion/boar/etc - must be dangerous :rolleyes:

I'm sure your GD has enough common sense and the herd would know him at this point that it would be fine, I'd say he's watching them a lot to notice the ground getting dug up. Herd animals like cattle get to know specific people and learn if they're going to hurt them or not, if your GD visits the field often then they would recognise him as a non-threat

An understanding in animals generally helps, especially herd animals, I personally work closely with stallions on a daily basis, I prefer them to the infoal-mares who are more unpredictable!

In calf cows aren't dangerous?

All depends on the bull. Most bulls would be happy just to stay with the cows, but he could be different.