M50 accident - how do you see it?

Colonel Sanders

Drive the M50 to and from work every day, as a lot of people on here will testify its really a testament to the stupidity of Irish drivers

But in the last few days I have seen several near misses involving the exact same circumstances (none involving me thankfully)

Person in lane 3 over taking car driving in land 2. Person in lane 3 finishes over taking manoeuvre. Safe to move back to lane 2....or so it would seem. However as lane 3 driver begins his move into lane 2 a person in lane 1 also begins his move into lane 2. There is no traffic in lane 1 hence the person should not have any need to change lanes (I.e. he's a middle lane moron)

Thankfully none of the near miss incidents have resulted in a crash but just got me thinking who'd be in the wrong? Is there a rule? Is the wannabe middle lane moron in the wrong as there is absolutely no reason he should leave lane 1?

FWIW I have also seen a good few near misses where the person leaving lane 1 isn't a middle lane moron, he's moving out to over take a slower car in lane 1

Opinions?

MugMugs

Both cars moving into the same lane at the same time?

50/50 or knock for knock?

MugMugs

OSI wrote: »

I'm pretty sure (although I can't be certain) that I was told the person in the outer lane has right of way. So the person moving from lane 3 to 2 has right of way over the driver moving lane 1 to 2.

That's very interesting and I say that earnestly. Anything on that?

Colonel Sanders

OSI wrote: »

I'm pretty sure (although I can't be certain) that I was told the person in the outer lane has right of way. So the person moving from lane 3 to 2 has right of way over the driver moving lane 1 to 2.

Yeah I was wondering was there some sort of "hierarchy"

Must have seen it at least 5 times this week alone

Anan1

I would have though that, all other things being equal, you yield to traffic on your right?

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

I would have though that, all other things being equal, you yield to traffic on your right?

On lanes of equal importance?

Northern Monkey

I've seen that a few times on the M50 myself.

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

On lanes of equal importance?

I'd assume all three lanes are of equal importance, that you must yield to traffic already in a lane, and that if two cars are entering an empty lane from opposite sides at the same instant then the rule would be yield right. I'm really only guessing here, though.

Lawless2k12

Tough to call... I'd assume the person on outside has the right? Iffy one though.

The Big Red Button

I've seen this happen quite a few times myself. And usually in cases where the car in the left-most lane has a "genuine" reason for moving out (to overtake other traffic.)

In my opinion, the car in the left lane would be in the wrong if an accident occurred. The driver of the car in the left lane should be expecting the car in the right lane to be moving back to the middle/left lane, and not staying in the right lane. (OK, you often do get idiots sitting in the overtaking lane for miles, but that's beside the point!)

Whereas the car in the right lane has no way of knowing whether the car in the left lane will choose to overtake or not.

Kinda similar, in a way, to the rules about undertaking. It's not allowed, because it's presumed that the car in the "outside" lane will be moving back in to the left-most lane.

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd assume all three lanes are of equal importance, that you must yield to traffic already in a lane, and that if two cars are entering an empty lane from opposite sides at the same instant then the rule would be yield right. I'm really only guessing here, though.

Makes sense to me alright.

le la rat

This is why I only use the chopper

Garvan

If u look up the rules of the road when it comes to yielding, on roads of equal importance you always yield to the vehicle on the right

G

I think considering you must drive left unless overtaking, the obligation is on mr lane 3 to move back to lane 2... so probably goes a lot more in his favour

antodeco

My understanding is that if you are moving to the right lane, you are overtaking. If you are moving to the left lane, you are rejoining the driving lane. Based on this, the person who moved right, has overtaken when unsafe to do so, whilst person moving left, is returning to where they should be. Thought that would have been standard rules of the road?

Veloce

I have seen this numberous times on the M50.

I would agree with what has been said above. It's hard one to call but I presume that the person moving from lane 1 to 2 would be more liable as technically the person moving from lane 3 to 2 is already performing an overtake as where the person moving from lane 1 to 2 is beginning an overtake therefore must yield to traffic on the right.

kaku777

This nearly happened to me in America twice, on a road with 6 lanes!.

pat1981

I always
follow a very simple rule when changing lanes, observe my mirrors and blindspots, and if I am not interfering with traffic approaching me fom behind, indicate my intention and move lanes when safe to do so.

lau1247

pat1981 wrote: »

I always
follow a very simple rule when changing lanes, observe my mirrors and blindspots, and if I am not interfering with traffic approaching me fom behind, indicate my intention and move lanes when safe to do so.

finally someone says it.. yeah it doesn't take a big effort to quickly turn your head for split second to check before moving in..

Veloce

pat1981 wrote: »

I always
follow a very simple rule when changing lanes, observe my mirrors and blindspots, and if I am not interfering with traffic approaching me fom behind, indicate my intention and move lanes when safe to do so.

You must be one of the very few who do it! The m50 is a free for all.

roper1664

It is a tough one to answer but as said above just always be careful when changing lane and move in as safely as possible with lots of observation, I have often indicated well in advance (either when overtaking or moving back in to lane) only for some dopey punter to almost drift in with either no indicator or one of those confirmators (indicating as you are completing the manouver as opposed to indicating by starting it in advance)

Veloce

Veloce wrote: »

You must be one of the very few who do it! The m50 is a free for all.

I do it too, and travel the M50 every day. You can clearly see in these situations that neither driver checks their blind spots and at least one of them isn't using indicators before changing lanes/

CR 7

I'd imagine this applies:

What to do when somebody overtakes you

Continue at the same pace.
Keep as near to the left as is safe to do so.
Do not accelerate.
Be alert in case the overtaking vehicle suddenly pulls back in front of you.

You're still being overtaken even if there's a lane in between.

antodeco

I always check my blindspots and mirrors when driving. Especially if I am changing lanes. I would consider myself an extremely observant driver. The amount of people who only watch the car in front of them is crazy. Im always looking as far forward as I can aswell. Makes sense!

Sunnyisland

Just came back across the M50,the amount of drivers who don't know the simple & safest way to drive in lane is mind boggling,If the resources allowed a dedicated traffic corps in line with more education in driving safetly that would go along way in helping this problem,How there is not multiple pileups there every morning I don't know.

seamus

antodeco wrote: »

My understanding is that if you are moving to the right lane, you are overtaking. If you are moving to the left lane, you are rejoining the driving lane. Based on this, the person who moved right, has overtaken when unsafe to do so, whilst person moving left, is returning to where they should be. Thought that would have been standard rules of the road?

This.

It's not so much a "yield to the right" rule as a "do not overtake unless it is safe" rule. The person in lane 3 is mid-overtake, whereas the person in lane 1 has not yet started to overtake, therefore they must wait until the way is clear before proceeding. Lane 3 guy has not completed his overtake until he returns to lane 2 (and ultimately to lane 1).

djimi

Would relative road position not have something to do with it also? Ie if the car in the left hand lane is ahead of the car in the right hand lane then it could be argued that the right hand car could see the left hand car, but not necessarily vice versa, so they should give way?

I know personally I try not to pull into the middle lane from the left hand lane while I am alongside a car in the right hand lane (or vice versa) if I can at all avoid it; for this very reason. Too many drivers in this country change lane without looking first or indicating.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

i nearly had an accident about 2 weeks ago in a similar situation.

t'was myself heading home from the early shift one day about 7:15pm heading up the M1.

i was just after the port tunnel and it 3 lanes (or 4 ?) on the stretch of road from the tunnel to the airport then after that it gets reduced to 2.

it was before the airport and i was going to over take a rather slow truck that was just ahead of me so i began the overtaking process, lane clear and indicator on.

as i was just pulling out there was a jeep coming in from the outer lane into the middle lane not using his indicators,

swung back in behind the truck myself and slowed down and the guy in the jeep just kept going his way.

do i see a potential insurance scam using this system ?

i mean a dash cam wouldnt help here really because it cant see to the right of you that far. and he could say he was indicating and it goes one word vs another unless theres a witness (thats not friends with the guy in the jeep) to act as witness to gardai.

velosolex

Better off staying in lane 3 then should not have the above problems, only have to go to lane 2 and 1 to exit! Easy.

renofan

Northern Monkey wrote: »

I've seen that a few times on the M50 myself.

I've seen it plenty of times. And its not just on the M50. I saw what I thought was gonna be a crash a few years ago in England but the person going from lane one into two copped at the last second the person in the outside lane hadn't seen them. Since then I double check and check again before pulling out or in.

velosolex

OSI, POST RAGE!

Mycroft H

Give way to faster traffic proceeding from your right. Simples.

Colonel Sanders

was on the wrong end of this going home tonight, would be an exaggeration to say it was a "near miss" as I spotted the fool in plenty of time

Heading north bound between N4 exit and Blanchardstown. Noticed a Golf in Lane 1 up ahead as I over took a middle lane moron. Had been able to see the golf in lane 1 for a good while. Finished over taking the middle lane moron and when it was safe indicated and began to move across to lane 2 (from where I planned to over take the golf and move back to lane 1). Golf driver all of a sudden decided to join lane 2 for no reason at all (lane 1 completely empty, in fact the M50 was very quiet at the time). Had to swerve to avoid him. Had there been a car driving at speed in lane 3 I could easily have hit him

Colonel Sanders

realies wrote: »

How there is not multiple pileups there every morning I don't know.

I was delayed by serious accidents south bound every day last week apart from Friday

Today just after I passed the Ballymount exit I heard on the radio of an "incident" between the N4 exit and the Red Cow. I

I don't understand how there aren't numerous pile ups daily, the M50 is a free for all and there is ZERO Garda presence

coolisin

Glad you didn't really find out and it was a lucky escape op

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd assume all three lanes are of equal importance, that you must yield to traffic already in a lane, and that if two cars are entering an empty lane from opposite sides at the same instant then the rule would be yield right. I'm really only guessing here, though.

Rule like you described applies on the Continent.
But I've never heard about such rule in Ireland.

keith16

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I was delayed by serious accidents south bound every day last week apart from Friday

Today just after I passed the Ballymount exit I heard on the radio of an "incident" between the N4 exit and the Red Cow. I

I don't understand how there aren't numerous pile ups daily, the M50 is a free for all and there is ZERO Garda presence

The M50 is a free for all. I hate driving on it. Usually try and stay in lane one and at certain parts of it, it's usually the fastest lane. I spend more time undertaking people in the middle lane than I do in overtaking either of the other two.

It's also fierce annoying if you are in lane three, overtaking and continuing at a faster pace in two when some twat in an Audi is right up your hole.

Move out of the way for him to overtake only to see him slide across all lanes in one go to make the exit. Generally don't indicate either.

Horrible road.

OldmanMondeo

pat1981 wrote: »

I always
follow a very simple rule when changing lanes, observe my mirrors and blindspots, and if I am not interfering with traffic approaching me fom behind, indicate my intention and move lanes when safe to do so.

Still need your withs about you. I join the M50 everyday, the other morning I was about to enter lane 1, nice gap to enter, checked mirrors, blind spot, signaled as I was crossing the line a person in a van decides blast from the middle lane into the gap I had already indicated for. I had seen him in the middle lane and he did not indicate.

Not everyone trying to get into a lane is a fool.