Kildare item on the Household Tax

Le_Dieux

Apologies if this has been posted before;

Interesting article this:

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/tabId/201/itemId/15702/Council-has-no-hope-of-collecting-unpaid-household.aspx

elaverty

There Budgets were cut anyway,the HHT isnt going to make any difference to the services,Everyone knows that the HHT is going to pay the unsecured Bondholders Gambling Debts..

(Q ) Why wasnt the HHT/PROPERTY TAX introduced in the so called boom time.

(A) Because we didnt have to bailout Anglo then,where as we do now,,,

These articles are being put out to the public in the hope to Pit the people that paid it against the people that didnt/couldnt..

Trampas

Shows a farce it is when they haven't a clue who has or hasn't paid.

The council should be made publish its figures so we know where the money is going but that wont happen.

I would be pretty sure councils have no idea in getting value for money.

All this scaremongering going on is worse. What next no salt for the roads come winter?

sandin

Its got absolutley nothing to do with Anglo.

We USED to take in €55m - €60m in taxes per year and we spent it.

Now we take in €35 - €40m in tax every year and we still spend €55m on DAY to DAY running of the country.

The tax will get collected eventually as it just goes onto the house - when the house is sold, the new owner will insist on all outstanding taxes to be paid first.

Also, when revenue start collectig it next year ad attachement payments come in, they'll simply apply to the court to get payment deducted from salary.

Overall, i don't see the issue with this - it is the fairest way to tax. I expect to be paying €1,000 a year within 3/4 years cos of where I live. I expect someone in a standard 3 bed semi will pay about €300 a year and then someone in a mansion to pay €3,000 a year.


Funny thing is, the people paying the least probably make more use of council services than those paying the most.

Naturally, there should be some scheme for those who paid full rate stamp duty.

L1011

elaverty wrote: »

Everyone knows that the HHT is going to pay the unsecured Bondholders Gambling Debts..

No, no its not.

That said, the anti-'s are generally unable to count let alone understand basic concepts so I'm not surprised to see that lie still being pushed.

If the state hadn't paid a single cent towards banks, we would still have a budget defecation in need of correction.

Italia

Without going into a huge debate about the merits of this farce of a tax, I wouldn't mind paying if:
a) I knew exactly where the money was going (i.e - remaining in the country to actually pay for services, as opposed to filling the pockets of some German bank with an unsecured loan).
b) I actually got some services for the money.

Before anyone shoots me down about the wonderful services I'm already getting from our local councils, I'd just like to point out that I've travelled and lived in quite a few different countries over the last 30 years and have paid this type of tax (in some cases it was definitely expensive).
That tax, in all the places I've been, covered : weekly refuse removal; mowing of greens and verges in residential areas; planting of flowers/ shrubs etc; sweeping of streets; free fire brigade; free ambulances; provision of well lit parks and recreation areas; provision of council sports facilities; working street lighting; maintenance of sidewalks & footpaths; Road repairs (ie: no potholes).
In 2 specific countries, this charge covered the supply of water as well.

What is the likelihood of this tax covering the same (most? a lot?some?) services here? - Zero, Nil, None.
I'm sorry to say this, and I'm not out to offend anyone, but service provision and delivery by the state and by councils is an urban myth. I won't even bother to talk about efficiency. That is a whole new can of worms.
And then people still wonder why some of us are more than slightly pi**ed at this tax? :mad:

sandin wrote: »

Its got absolutley nothing to do with Anglo.

We USED to take in €55m - €60m in taxes per year and we spent it.

Now we take in €35 - €40m in tax every year and we still spend €55m on DAY to DAY running of the country.

The tax will get collected eventually as it just goes onto the house - when the house is sold, the new owner will insist on all outstanding taxes to be paid first.

Also, when revenue start collectig it next year ad attachement payments come in, they'll simply apply to the court to get payment deducted from salary.

Overall, i don't see the issue with this - it is the fairest way to tax. I expect to be paying €1,000 a year within 3/4 years cos of where I live. I expect someone in a standard 3 bed semi will pay about €300 a year and then someone in a mansion to pay €3,000 a year.


Funny thing is, the people paying the least probably make more use of council services than those paying the most.

Naturally, there should be some scheme for those who paid full rate stamp duty.

gerrowadat

Well said Italia. I don't begrudge the paying of the tax. We're long overdue a tax related to property ownership, but I'm mainly annoyed that we have no 'directed' taxation in Ireland much at all.

The 'anti' crowd do kind of get on my nerves though. They pay considerably more than 100 quid a year in income tax they have no control over where it goes. TV license, VRT, etc. Why is this suddenly a problem?

Joe Public

It is well known that this "household tax" is just an information gathering exercise leading up to the reintroduction of house rates. House rates will be used to pay for local services as happens in most other countries as Italia has pointed out. Blame Charlie for abolishing domestic rates in the first place.

Le_Dieux

I have another angle on this'tax':

All the talk is about cutting services if the CC don't get the money in. Why not start by cutting some of the jobs in that monstrosity of a glass building up in Naas? All I read is f**k the public, as long as the CC workers keep their job.

Italia

I don't begrudge paying a household tax (rates & taxes as they are called elsewhere). Absolutely not. I can see the need for one and how it would benefit the community as a whole.

My problem is that it is ANOTHER tax on top of everything else. So if that puts me in the "anti" camp, so be it. And of course the whipping boy who pays for these taxes is once again the ever dwindling "middle class". Why? ...because they normally pay up and don't moan overy much. The rich will always find some creative accountant to cook the books and the poor...well, they don't pay anyway.

And thats not the end of it. Coming down the pipeline are water charges and more. - no problem with that BUT...when are they going to fix the leaking pipes which is where the biggest loss of water is? AND on top of that we have to pay an exhorbitant fee for the meter just because some gob****e politician can't use his 2 neurons and get them almost free from the Brits or because he has his dirty little fingers in the pie? Sorry, but they can feck off.

If the government is serious (and they are NOT) about cutting costs, why is the bloated, inefficient army of pen pushers in the civil service (using a broad term for those in central / local government) not tackled once and for all?
How about introducing KPI's and SLA's? Then see how fast these feckers get off their lard-asses and either move on or actually start to produce.

At the end of the day, the government's strategy is doomed to failure. You cannot tax yourself out of a recession or a hole.
The "middle class" who is basically holding up the finances of this country is rapidly shrinking (quite a few are emigrating). So the tax income is destined to continue falling (as is already patently evident). Increasing taxes in other areas will not bring about the funding they need.

The government MUST start producing jobs (however menial they are) and they need to create a climate where new businesses can take root. The lifeblood of this (and any country) is small / medium enterprise... even someone working from home.

Here is another "controversial" proposal...what about those on the dole? The population of Ireland is about 4 million (give or take). Of this, the economically employable base is about 2Million and of these, we have about 450K on the dole (so unemployment is about 25% - not 14%).
Instead of just shelling out the dole money every week / month to someone who (for whatever reaon) sits at home scratching his/ her hole - how about the government using this pool of people to do jobs necessary for maintenance / improvements etc. I mean...they are already paying them to sit at home, so why not pay them to do something - sweep the streets, plant shrubs, anything - until they are off the register.

No? Too reminiscent of life under communism? Ahhh...right... can't have that. Ok then, lets continue taxing the feckers in the middle.

gerrowadat wrote: »

Well said Italia. I don't begrudge the paying of the tax. We're long overdue a tax related to property ownership, but I'm mainly annoyed that we have no 'directed' taxation in Ireland much at all.

The 'anti' crowd do kind of get on my nerves though. They pay considerably more than 100 quid a year in income tax they have no control over where it goes. TV license, VRT, etc. Why is this suddenly a problem?

Joe Public

There are plans to restructure the CCs to make them more effective locally. Big Phil is hatching something probably to tie in with the reintroduction of rates.

dharma200

sandin wrote: »

Its got absolutley nothing to do with Anglo.

We USED to take in €55m - €60m in taxes per year and we spent it.

Now we take in €35 - €40m in tax every year and we still spend €55m on DAY to DAY running of the country.

The tax will get collected eventually as it just goes onto the house - when the house is sold, the new owner will insist on all outstanding taxes to be paid first.

Also, when revenue start collectig it next year ad attachement payments come in, they'll simply apply to the court to get payment deducted from salary.

Overall, i don't see the issue with this - it is the fairest way to tax. I expect to be paying €1,000 a year within 3/4 years cos of where I live. I expect someone in a standard 3 bed semi will pay about €300 a year and then someone in a mansion to pay €3,000 a year.


Funny thing is, the people paying the least probably make more use of council services than those paying the most.

Naturally, there should be some scheme for those who paid full rate stamp duty.

Im not sure.. so wealthy people who should be paying more dont use roads, services etc etc.. I amnt sure what that means.. any links or anything to show those who will pay less (supposedly) will use more services?

Italia

IMHO "Big Phil" is a buffoon...just like the rest of them.
Couldn't organise a p*ss-up in a brewery even if he tried.
Certainly fukced up the HHT didn't he?

Joe Public wrote: »

There are plans to restructure the CCs to make them more effective locally. Big Phil is hatching something probably to tie in with the reintroduction of rates.

Joe Public

More reason to get this right!

Italia

Agree 100%.
Problem is, that band of gombeen twits who sit in the Dail have 3 huge weapons at their disposal:
- velcro superglued to their posteriors (so its going to take an almighty effort to lever them out of their comfy chairs and super pensions in the Dail)
- fingers in every posible pie
- a band of sheep that keeps on voting for them over and over and over....

If you can get it right ...you've got my vote for life

Joe Public wrote: »

More reason to get this right!

gsxr1

PAYE tax
USC tax
PRSI

Not to mention VAT and all the other taxes we pay day to day.

Its about time they started trimming the incomes of people (leeches) who do not bother contributing instead of raping my wallet each week.


I think that's enough from me thank you very much.

I dont intend to ever move or pay their extra household tax.

Le_Dieux

I have just spent 3 hours, along with a number of neighbours in our estate, cleaning up. Among the chores we did was deweed & sweep the kerbside throughout the estate.

Why should I bother paying a €100 HHT after what we have just done? KCC should be paying us!:rolleyes:

The Idyll Race

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I have just spent 3 hours, along with a number of neighbours in our estate, cleaning up. Among the chores we did was deweed & sweep the kerbside throughout the estate.

Why should I bother paying a €100 HHT after what we have just done? KCC should be paying us!:rolleyes:

Doing it to prove a point or because cleaning your estate is the right thing to do? In any case, Revenue will gladly make you bother with PT next year.

Italia

Those things are exactly the type of services that should be provided by a Council and paid for through a tax like HHT.

Of course this is never going to happen here, is it "Big Phil"? :mad:

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I have just spent 3 hours, along with a number of neighbours in our estate, cleaning up. Among the chores we did was deweed & sweep the kerbside throughout the estate.

Why should I bother paying a €100 HHT after what we have just done? KCC should be paying us!:rolleyes:

gsxr1

Italia wrote: »

Those things are exactly the type of services that should be provided by a Council and paid for through a tax like HHT.

Of course this is never going to happen here, is it "Big Phil"? :mad:

if that is the case then people paying management fees should at the very least have a reduced rate. Management fees are already subject to tax.

KCC have no control of my estate. Why should I pay to have other peoples estate cleaned.

This whole subject needs dealt with a whole lot better.

I would need to see exactly where the money will go, why my income taxes have been stopped being supplied to the concil where I live. And each house or estate dealt with on an individual level. I live in a 2 bed terrace . With a small garden. And pay the same house tax as Bill Cullen down the road abit.

So far, I have not received any invoice, bill or any note, letter or contact saying I have to pay. Only media. This is a farce.

Maybe if the USC was scraped and people on welfare and the millionaires taking a bigger a hit on it ,then I would consider paying. Make it fare. The working and middle class are expected to pay for everything .

Le_Dieux

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Doing it to prove a point or because cleaning your estate is the right thing to do? In any case, Revenue will gladly make you bother with PT next year.

And what do You mean by that? They can lock me up, and throw away the key...I WILL NOT PAY!

BuffyBot

As this has gone way off topic for this forum, I'm closing it. If folks want to discuss the greater political/economic aspects, there are more appropriate fora.