Should Lyric FM be shut down?

Maggie McGaggie

Just thought I would start this as the Marty Whelan thread has gone very quiet. I don't know how to put up a poll but it might be worthwhile. I only started listening to Lyric/classical music seven years ago and in this time in my opinion the quality of fare has deteriorated on a consistent basis. It's not just MW, I am not too fond of Liz Nolan or Niall Carroll. Both of their programmes seem to crammed with light, airy music and I've lost count of the number of times I tuned in only to hear "Una furtiva lagrima".These three presenters plus John Kelly occupy twelve hours of broadasting from seven am to seven pm. The best presenter on Lyric, Paul Herriott has been put onto the Lyric concert duty, where he is totally wasted.

Apparently before Lyric was licensed there was an evening/night-time service being broadcast. I wonder could something like that be brought back, with a person just giving the names of the pieces. I would still like RTE to support composers and new music and would hope that they would play these new Irish pieces on a new service. Two or three people should be able to run the service and we could ditch all the competitions, producers and egos that currently seem to occupy the place. Maybe I have outgrown Lyric but it's not something that should happen to a person who has a rudimentary knowledge of classical music.

I am just after tuning in Lyric because I was thinking maybe this thread is a bit unfair;Marty Whelan is playing Whitney Houston's "One moment in time". FFS.

Dirigent

Prior to Lyric, there was a service called FM3 using RnaG's frequencies when they were not using them. Used to start at 7:30pm, iirc.

While I utterly detest the medicority that Whelan specialises in, I actually like Niall's and Liz's selections, and am beginning to laugh at the way Liz parodies herself with the "what a wonderful recording" gag. If only JK could put his Keith Jarrett never-ending crap in the bin where it belongs, life would be so much better :-)

puffishoes

I have to agree, I like Liz's show it;s a nice mix for that time of the day.

There's also some other great shows, the blue is one of my favorite radio shows Irish or otherwise. The Magic Carpet, Jazz Alley etc. There really is some quality shows on lyric. The only problem for me is the 15 or hours a week taking up by MW which is not a big problem as I'm normally having breakfast and tune into kusc or radio Prague or something similar online.

I don't think shutting it down is the answer but maybe get rid of some of tripe

pinkypinky

The problem is that for all of us who abhor MW, there's a lot of older people who think he's great. I've had raging rows with my father about it. Had to consider disowning him.

Liz Nolan is ok but I wish she'd play a bit less opera. John Kelly I don't mind.

Mostly I tune into Lyric for the Blue of the Night now or Jazz Alley. Before MW, it was my permanent station on my alarm clock.

spurious

9 times out of 10, when I turn on Lyric, there is music playing. This is the reason I choose it ahead of the 'jabbering DJ who loves the sound of their own voice' stations.

mike65

pinkypinky wrote: »

The problem is that for all of us who abhor MW, there's a lot of older people who think he's great. I've had raging rows with my father about it. Had to consider disowning him.

:eek:

Only very small problems in your household then!

puffishoes

mike65 wrote: »

:eek:

Only very small problems in your household then!

Have you seen how many pages the marty thread reached?

small problem indeed mike...hmmph

pinkypinky

mike65 wrote: »

:eek:

Only very small problems in your household then!

Perhaps debates is a better word. He thinks Marty is actually quite good. I know he is wrong!

Maggie McGaggie

Here are a few of the problems I have with Lyric(MW aside)

*Too much airy-fairy music. If you go through the music played on the main shows from 7am-7pm you will rarely come across composers such as Mahler or Prokofiev. There is a preponderance of light music from the 18th century, mainly Italian and Austro-German.
*Most pieces played are usually shorter than five minutes. Why can't a symphony or opera act be played. There is the scope there.
*Too many movie themes played + too much nonsense talked by presenters about "movie stars". I know some people hate sport but I can't stand the tripe that Hollywood produces and I find this a real turn-off.
*It seems as if it is possible that any disc jockey/presenter from RTE radio or tv could pop up on Lyric. I think that it's necessary for the presenter to have a love for the music that's why I'm not a fan of Lorcan Murray or Niall Carroll(whose programme this week must have been pre-recorded, it certainly sounds so, as the list for the music to be played tomorrow is already up on the website).

Personally, I would like to see it go. I think an even better service could be provided at a fraction of the cost.

Bard

pinkypinky wrote: »

The problem is that for all of us who abhor MW...

I abhor medium wave as well.

Marty Whelan on the other hand, is an absolute gent.

win2one

Used to listen to J Kelly but gave up, is he still playng Elvis Costello every few days ?

serfboard

Maggie McGaggie wrote: »

Here are a few of the problems I have with Lyric(MW aside)

*Too much airy-fairy music. If you go through the music played on the main shows from 7am-7pm you will rarely come across composers such as Mahler or Prokofiev. There is a preponderance of light music from the 18th century, mainly Italian and Austro-German.

Lyric is going for "popular classics". If it went for unpopular classics and its audience was three people (extreme exaggeration), people would be complaining about the amount of money being spent for an audience that size. Lyric has to demonstrate that it has at least some audience.

Maggie McGaggie wrote: »

*Most pieces played are usually shorter than five minutes. Why can't a symphony or opera act be played.

Because nobody would listen. You and the other two listeners might, but nobody else would.

Maggie McGaggie wrote: »

*Too many movie themes played + too much nonsense talked by presenters about "movie stars". I know some people hate sport but I can't stand the tripe that Hollywood produces and I find this a real turn-off.

Again, it's trying to hook in a general audience. We don't have princes and kings commissioning orchestral music nowadays - the most people that do are film studios. Although I take your point about "movie stars".

Maggie McGaggie wrote: »

*It seems as if it is possible that any disc jockey/presenter from RTE radio or tv could pop up on Lyric. I think that it's necessary for the presenter to have a love for the music that's why I'm not a fan of Lorcan Murray or Niall Carroll(whose programme this week must have been pre-recorded, it certainly sounds so, as the list for the music to be played tomorrow is already up on the website).

It's the RTE equivalent of being put out to pasture.

Maggie McGaggie wrote: »

Personally, I would like to see it go. I think an even better service could be provided at a fraction of the cost.

Possibly. What makes me think that you might be volunteering to do it?

Qualitymark

Not closed, no. But yes, I'm hearing an increasing amount of poppy music and light classical on Lyric; I don't listen to a classical music station to hear pop hits or ex-hits. They do need to become more stringent.

View

serfboard wrote: »

Lyric is going for "popular classics". If it went for unpopular classics and its audience was three people (extreme exaggeration),

I think that is the BBC Radio 3 "business" plan.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Shut Whelan down for good anyway. I don't get how a man who's been rejected by the paying listenership on multiple occasions still has a job in RTE. He's got to be holding some kind of dirt on somebody. They should never have taken him back after his little Century deal went belly up.

GSF

Marty is reminiscent of the fat opera singer in the Go Compare ads in terms of his omnipresence and the irritation his appearance engenders in large sections of the public. The fat opera singer at least knows something about classical music though. So on balance he should get the Lyric breakfast gig.

pconn062

No I don't think it should be shut down, there are enough quality programmes still on for it to continue (Blue of the Night, JK ensemble, Jazz Alley, the Lyric Concert) although I think some changes need to be made. Unfortunately, as with many things, there has been a gradual "dumbing down" of the content over the last number of years, most noticeably with the introduction of Marty Whelan in the Breakfast slot. This was obviously a move made purely for ratings purposes without thought given to the programming quality.
Also as some other posters have pointed out, much of the music during the daytime is now light airy music usually consisting of 18th century instrumental music or movie and musical numbers. A lot of the previous heavy hitting composers such as Prokofiev, Mahler and even 20th century composers such as Debussy have been confined to late evening (or maybe the JK ensemble). RTE need to be careful not to alienate their core listener simply to make the ratings look better, for once RTE need to take a chance with an arts programme and put quality over everything else.

serfboard

pconn062 wrote: »

RTE need to be careful not to alienate their core listener simply to make the ratings look better, for once RTE need to take a chance with an arts programme and put quality over everything else.

[speculation]I would say that it's for the very reason that they don't have sufficient listenership that they are under threat from management - "show us that you have an audience or we'll shut you down"[/speculation] which resulted in them going for a mishmash between BBC Radios 2 and 3, with the emphasis being more on 2 now - particularly with Marty Whelan who thinks he's some kind of Terry Wogan. (Not that I'd be a big fan of TW, but he had a huge audience).

The funds ain't there any more for a 1% station. What's next though - ads?

twinklerunner

If Lyric was shut down, where would that leave RnaG? It doesn't even get a mention when the listenership figures are released.

MadsL

Give Bernard Clarke more to do; knowledgable, articulate and passionate about music.

Doesn't have to be his usual 20/21st Century composer diet.

Give him a whole series on the development of 'classical' music from the 9th Century to the present day. He'd make it fascinating. If you ever get the chance to attend one of his pre-concert talks in the NCH he is fantastic.

And just get Marty to leave and never come back, worst idea RTE ever had.

Out of interest how come we can pay Marty a fortune, but the sell-out highly regarded annual Living Music Festival was quietly dropped. Outrageous.

Dirigent

MadsL wrote: »

Give Bernard Clarke more to do; knowledgable, articulate and passionate about music.
..
Give him a whole series on the development of 'classical' music from the 9th Century to the present day.

+1. Remember the series he did on the Berlin Phil before their visit 4 years ago?

However RTE management seem to be more interested in Ella Fitzgerald's back catalogue.

Mearings

I listen to Lyric on a Roberts internet radio, which was streaming at 96kbps WMA, low for orchestral music. Listening is now a lot better, RTE having changed to MP3 at higher bit rates. 192kbps at present.

thejuggler

I'm not a listener to Lyric or R na G but really believe that there is justification for returning to the FM3 days where a single transmission network of frequencies is shared by the two minority services. It seemed to work well in those days. Based on their audience and the cost it undoubedly takes to run the separate stations transmitters I think this is the way forward for RTE.

On a broader scale I think RTE should shrink massively to its core remit - public service broadcasting - news and current affairs.
2FM and RTE 2 should not be funded by the licence fee. Viewers and listeners have plenty of commercially available choices these days. There is no need for the license payer to subsidise channels which primarily broadcast imported television programming (RTE2) or offer an undefined mishmash of popular music with no single identity (2fm).

When these stations were setup they were the only show in town but that is not the case anymore

I also have to question why RTE for example needs to have an orchestra at our expense. (Is it just because the BBC do?)

GSF

thejuggler wrote: »

I also have to question why RTE for example needs to have an orchestra at our expense. (Is it just because the BBC do?)

Who else is going to play as the ship slowly descends beneath the waves?

MadsL

thejuggler wrote: »

I'm not a listener to Lyric or R na G but really believe that there is justification for returning to the FM3 days where a single transmission network of frequencies is shared by the two minority services. It seemed to work well in those days. Based on their audience and the cost it undoubedly takes to run the separate stations transmitters I think this is the way forward for RTE.

On a broader scale I think RTE should shrink massively to its core remit - public service broadcasting - news and current affairs.
2FM and RTE 2 should not be funded by the licence fee. Viewers and listeners have plenty of commercially available choices these days. There is no need for the license payer to subsidise channels which primarily broadcast imported television programming (RTE2) or offer an undefined mishmash of popular music with no single identity (2fm).

When these stations were setup they were the only show in town but that is not the case anymore

I also have to question why RTE for example needs to have an orchestra at our expense. (Is it just because the BBC do?)

Just two presenters salaries would run the RTE National Symphony Orchestra for a year.

Do you propose to turn Ireland into a cultural desert just to preserve Pat Kenny's lifestyle? Mother of God.

The orchestra already had to cut shows this year.

thejuggler

Which presenters salaries - Tubridy and Kenny?

If Ireland needs an orchestra to feel 'cultural' let the paying public pay admission in their droves to watch it perform. I don't wish to subsidise it.