Driving a classic on UK plates

unfit2006

I have noticed an increasing number of classic cars turning up at shows still bearing their UK plates.

Now I understand that the VRT is gone up to €200 and also that newly imported cars will be registered on one of those hideous multi-digit ZV or county reg numbers. All good reasons for keeping ones newly imported classic on UK plates seems to be the logic applied in such cases. Furthermore, an "undeclared" imported car can be returned to the UK to be sold on at any date in the future using it's original V5 and UK identity

My query is how does the practice of driving these cars around on UK plates continue the way it does? I know that the vehicle can be impounded by Revenue if detected. I also presume that there are hefty penalties which could be applied if detected. I also accept that there is the question of evasion of road tax. However, in practice, if a 35 year old car is brought out on 10 or 12 Sundays each year to attend a show, how likely is it that any of the above will happen ? Are they being ignored by the powers that be on the basis that the revenue lost to the exchequer is relatively small ?

Also, I always thought that the insurance companies offering classic car policies will only insure a UK reg car for a certain period of time (6 weeks ??) in order to allow the owner enough time to sort out importation, Irish reg etc. Is that still the case ? Seemingly not as I have seen UK registered cars with Insurance discs in the windscreen.

I would welcome views and your personal experiences (if any)on this matter.

carchaeologist

Trade plates/ some versions of trade/garage insurance seem to help in some cases.

bugsntinas

i often wonder how they get away with it.i recently got mine registered after being here for a few years mainly off the road.i went for the zv plate and i don't think it looks too bad as it only has 5 numbers.i also was under the impression that the insurance companies had to inform the revenue of uk reg cars being insured.
personally i'd rather do it the right way rather than risk having the car taken away.

hi5

I heard about a month ago that Customs and Gardai turned up at a show in Birr, Co Offaly and took away about 6 UK registered classics on the back of a low loader and made a list of the rest.
I don't know how true this is as I only heard it from one source, maybe someone else can confirm it?

macplaxton

unfit2006 wrote: »

Also, I always thought that the insurance companies offering classic car policies will only insure a UK reg car for a certain period of time (6 weeks ??) in order to allow the owner enough time to sort out importation, Irish reg etc. Is that still the case ? Seemingly not as I have seen UK registered cars with Insurance discs in the windscreen.

Insurance companies must provide details to Revenue, on a monthly basis, of all foreign registered vehicles for which they issue a policy of insurance in excess of 42 days. (section 111 of the Finance Act 2010, adds section 142A to the Finance Act 1992)

In other words the insurers are obliged to grass-up potential or actual VRT dodgers to the Revenue. Then it's down to the Revenue how/why/when they go about doing it.

Capri

I think everyone should have to play on a level pitch, but the problem is foreigners can abuse the system here by 'not being in the country for xx days/year or 'looking for work in an EU state' thereby allowing them an advantage over Irish taxpayers.

In a recent case I wanted to import a commercial ( that had windows) but the Revenue / NCT couldn't furnish me (after c.10 phone calls) with the relevant legislation about the windows being blacked out / type-length of floor covering so I ended up selling it for spares out of frustration with Revenue/NCT :mad:

I'm eyeing up another 82 model now that'll need a bit of work done - so basically I've to do one trip to the NCTS to register it, then I'm in limbo because I'll need to drive it about a mile every now and again to get welding/brakes done so in theory I'm breaking the law as it's not taxed/tested but I can't do either til it's fixed, what am I to do ? Get a recovery truck everytime at €50/pop or get a towbar/trailer €1000 :eek:.

I KNOW - ' It's cheaper than getting a fine' yada yada :mad: , but if I have insurance on the car, and I pay the back tax once it's roadworthy then where is the problem

Back in the day you could do that without revenue-hungry cops stopping and seizing a vehicle :mad:

unfit2006

I have to say that in my years of attending shows, I have not seen or heard of a garda/revenue blitz on UK registered cars either on the showground or on the routes too and from such venues.
There was considerable clamp down on unregistered cars from a number of EU countries, mainly Poland, Latvia and Lithuania by the authorities here over the past number of years as well as occasional blitzes on UK registered imports used on a daily basis.

It is my hunch that insurance companies are not totally in compliance with the protocol regarding notification of unregistered vehicles to Revenue and when it does happen that revenue officials will select from the list the cases which they intend to pursue having regard to availability of resources and the amount of potential revenue in each case. (Think high-end luxury 4x4 etc.)

macplaxton

my hunch is that insurance companies are in compliance and that the Revenue have to prioritise what they go chasing after.

Capri

macplaxton wrote: »

my hunch is that insurance companies are in compliance and that the Revenue have to prioritise what they go chasing after.

The Revenue staff live in the everyday world, unlike their bosses / political masters, THEY know what's going on.
Gas in a way,that the Govt. 'cutbacks' affect policing /revenue which ironically provide a lot of revenue TO the govt - so the govt is shooting itself in the pocket


Going on in the USA as well -

http://jalopnik.com/5936929/for-16500-get-custody-of-the-mini

That's the case with today's Webasto-equipped Original Mini which the seller proports to be a 1970, but which has all the appearance of a ‘91+ MKIV. Unlike the discovery that your virginal bride is in reality Joan Rivers, in this case that makes procurement of a marriage license for you and the car a snap, no matter what the state.

There were so many different Mini special editions over the years that it's hard to pinpoint just what model this one is. The Webasto top, CD changer, and luxurious wooden dash point to it being a Mini 35 SE, which was the left-hand drive export edition of the England-only British Open Classic model. The car's two-tone paint features no model designation or other identifier, so I will leave it up to the eagle-eyed Mini experts in the crowd to ID the car with certainty......

macplaxton

Capri wrote: »

Going on in the USA as well

Different reason. Not to tax dodge, but to get around Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations. If it's over 25 years old, then you don't need to meet most of the Federal rules. Hence if you want a Mini, you have to bag an old one, or what appears to be an old one.

Capri

My point was that people will try to get around rules they consider stupid / inequitable - always have and always will.;)

bbsrs

Capri wrote: »

I'm eyeing up another 82 model now that'll need a bit of work done - so basically I've to do one trip to the NCTS to register it, then I'm in limbo because I'll need to drive it about a mile every now and again to get welding/brakes done so in theory I'm breaking the law as it's not taxed/tested but I can't do either til it's fixed, what am I to do ? Get a recovery truck everytime at €50/pop or get a towbar/trailer €1000 :eek:.

:mad:

Is it legal to tow a car with a rope these days although if the brakes need doing I'm not sure you should even take it to the nct .

w124man

I would imagine that most of the classic cars that we see there days arrive on this island by boat. Some of those cars stay in NI and some end up down here in the good ole Republic. So when you book your ticket you give your name, address, car and card details to get your ticket. You then get on the boat after you have checked in so they know you are on the boat with your foreign registered car.
Every time a boat destined for these shores sets sail there are customs and excise people on board. They know who is on board and what they are driving and on occasion they know exactly what is IN your car! I have done hundreds of crossings and every now and then you see stuff that you are not supposed to see. I've had my car searched on a few occasions whilst I was munching my freebies in StenaPlus, I have seen cars screened off and strapped to the deck. I was even pulled to one side in Stranraer and searched before getting on the boat and I was called by my christian name before I was asked for ID.
So if you think 'you got away with it' you have another thing coming! They know and if they want you they will come and get you. You'd be foolish to think otherwise.

VanhireBoys

w124man wrote: »

So if you think 'you got away with it' you have another thing coming! They know and if they want you they will come and get you. You'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Thats for cert as I took the wifes 08 civic from Manchester to Holyhead ferry. When I went to VRT the car I had the ferry ticket but girl said "no need we know when it arrived" :eek:

They are looking for the "heavy hitters" the 10 Reg BMW 640 for examle

A classic at €200 wouldnt even take the Revenue out of the yard !

iverjohnston

I bought a 1983 Merc a few years ago. came across Stranrear to Belfast. As I had a Landrover 90 on the farm at the time, I noticed a 90SWB in the line next to me while waiting to board. On arriving in Belfast I got lost.(no SatNav)
While trying to filter into a rhs lane, a Land 90 kindly let me in. Drove around for half an hour, and suddenly recognised the Ulster Hall on my right hand side. Knew then where I was and turned down a residential street to find a place to do a u turn. As I turned a landy 90 passed me and pulled up. A guy got out and started to walk back towards us, hands behind his back. I rolled down the window, but kept it in Drive with the engine going! This joker then spun a tale about how he recognised the Reg number as being from his home town, etc,etc. I told him I got it on Ebay, and had been lost, but was heading to Cavan, and now had my bearings. He got in the jeep and headed off. Totally paranoid, I headed down the M1, but am still convinced that we were followed at least past Armagh. Talk about bricking it! Later looking at a map, I found I had done a hugh circle around Belfast city, so probably looked suspicious allright. Wonder what branch of security he was with? Mack in Cavan.

Garvan

w124man wrote: »

I would imagine that most of the classic cars that we see there days arrive on this island by boat. Some of those cars stay in NI and some end up down here in the good ole Republic. So when you book your ticket you give your name, address, car and card details to get your ticket. You then get on the boat after you have checked in so they know you are on the boat with your foreign registered car.
Every time a boat destined for these shores sets sail there are customs and excise people on board. They know who is on board and what they are driving and on occasion they know exactly what is IN your car! I have done hundreds of crossings and every now and then you see stuff that you are not supposed to see. I've had my car searched on a few occasions whilst I was munching my freebies in StenaPlus, I have seen cars screened off and strapped to the deck. I was even pulled to one side in Stranraer and searched before getting on the boat and I was called by my christian name before I was asked for ID.
So if you think 'you got away with it' you have another thing coming! They know and if they want you they will come and get you. You'd be foolish to think otherwise.

You must be well dodgy

G

Garvan

I have to say that I think the 82d120xxx plates or the long zv plates are bloody awful. They just look sh1t.

Why they couldn't leave it they way it was, I don't know!!

I have no doubt it is a conscious effort by various arms of the motor industry and government to try and force people into buying at home. Although what they think there is to gain is beyond me.

Maybe they figure revenue generated from importing a classic is insufficient to cover the the hassle or cost of the admin?????

Personally I wouldn't care if a 30 year old car was unregistered in the State. The only problem is if he (knowingly or not) does something that leaves somebody injured and legs it, there is no way or tracing him!

I wonder do some guys pay the revenue the €200 and then just leave the UK registration plates on? Then they have an Irish registration for the insurance company but take a risk on the UK plate for the few days in the year they are out and about. I could see the attraction......

I used to think the post 87 plate system was great but now it just looks really tacky to me. The more I think about it the more I'm reckon that it was an effort to almost embarrass people with old reg plates into splurging for a new car and new plate. Increased car sales and increased revenue. Greed. Like keeping up with the Jones's

Just my 2c

G