The State of Comics Today

KalEl88

I was thinking about the state of comics recently. I apologise in advance for being a negative gimp!

I hate how Marvel can't seem to do quality stand alone series anymore. Everything has to be a "event" where heroes fight each other, cities are destroyed and icons are killed, only for it all to be retconned or forotten about a few months after it ends while the lead up to the next event comes along. All these events are just big action setpieces wherethey appeal to childish wetdreams instead of focusing on characters. (I know these are superhero books but still)

I stopped having an interest in Spider-Man after Brand New Day. There were so many Avengers books out there I just didn't know what was what.XMen wasn't a patch on the Grant Morrisson and Joss Whedon runs.

The only comics I liked were Daredevil by Bendis and then Brubaker and Brubakers Captain America. I hated the idea of Bucky coming back but I loved how it was done. (Though the Cap stuck in time was a terrible idea)

DC were just as bad with all their Crisis books and the Blackest Day, Brightest Night, Flashpoint events were terrible. (Though I loved Identity Crisis) But at least they had regular stories within their stand alone books. It was a pity these non event stories were just terrible and badly written. The only stories worth reading I thought, were some Batman books. (Though I hated Damien, the idea of Damien, and how Batman was also stuck in time, just Like Captain America)
I don't know what to make of The New 52 as I just couldn't be bothered with it. Barbara Gordon can walk now?

Outside of the mainstream books, American Vampire looked good though I havn't read enough.

Anything Mark Millar has done has been absolute trash. Kickass2 and Nemesis were a disgrace! I keep thinking I like his books because of The Ultimates, but then I read something by him and I think "Oh ya, he's a hack!" Notice how he can't seem to write individual characters, how they all sound the same?

The Walking Dead, though I enjoy it, seems to be stuck in a loop of "find safe zone, relax, get over run/fight neighbours, leave, repeat".

Spawn hasn't been enjoyable in years.

I'm forgetting a few obvious comics I should mention, so maybe ye can go over what I miss.

What do you think about the current state of comics?

Hunter.S

I totally agree with what your saying about marvel i am completely avoiding the Avengers v X men thing and am dyeing for it to blow over in saying that i have been reading venom and uncanny x force which are fairly good books written by Rick Remender.

As for DC I'm not really that into but the before watchmen stuff is looking good so far.

The walking dead story are a bit same but the characters are wheel developed.

You should have a look into fables (Vertigo) and the new crow book (IDW)

As for the over all state off comics i think one off the main problems is way to many books like you were saying about the avengers the same goes for Spiderman and x men just to many titles i never no what to buy. Allso this .1 thing that marvel have been doing just confuses me. I haven't been a member off the Wednesday club all that long but that is my humble opinion.

statomosh

marvel and the main dc line are gone to crap,but there is some fantastic stuff coming out of vertigo.the likes of fables,unwritten,greek street,sweet tooth and saucer country are all very enjoyable reads and hellblazer is absolutely fantastic.the creative teams seem to be more relaxed and have less pressure from editors to make high sales figures.these books also dont have decades of back story they have to research.chew from image is also well worth reading.

Fysh

It sounds to me like the main problem you're having is actually restricted to the American mainstream comics publishers, rather than comics as a whole. Which is a good thing, because it means that things aren't as bad as you might think.

I recognise the feeling of waning interest coupled with déjà vu that comes when you notice that the Next AMAZEBALLS New Storyline sounds an awful lot like one or more storylines you've already read before (except that this time It's For Real/It Affects The Entire World/Nothing Will Be The Same or something along those lines).

For me at least, I realised that a large part of the issue was down to the single-issue perpetually-ongoing periodical structure. I've got no problem with long-form stories, but I find I enjoy reading them in collected form - you get a more substantial chunk of story at a time, plus they fit on a bookshelf rather than requiring some stupid bloody storage box. I do have limited tolerance for stories that can't deliver a decent pay-off, which means that - given current trends amongst publishers of ongoing comics - anything that's a perpetually-ongoing series is pretty much off the cards for me...

If you're finding that stuff you've previously enjoyed is no longer as enjoyable, the best thing to do is vary up your reading. Have a look at what's on offer from other Direct Market publishers - between their current offerings and their backlist there's a lot to like from Vertigo, Image, Dark Horse and IDW. Drawn & Quarterly or Fantagraphics will cover you if you find yourself wanting something a bit more introspective or apparently high-brow (though one person's high-brow awesomeness can be another person's navel-gazing rubbish). Going still further afield again, Viz Media do a lot of manga series translations and Cinebook have a great ever-expanding range of European translations in serialised form, both of them spanning a variety of genres.

The nature and history of the Direct Market (the publisher focus on collector-oriented readers, the non-returnable titles resulting in conservative ordering tendencies in retailers when ordering new titles, and the overwhelming dominance of the superhero genre in terms of monthly periodicals) means that it's easy to get a disheartening view of comics if you base it purely on what you see on the shelves of your local shop. Ireland's relatively small size means that very few retailers can afford to stock a really good breadth of comics beyond the guaranteed sellers for the collector marketplace - and another place where the DM falls down quite badly is in making potential readers aware of what's on offer (eriously, where else are customers expected to buy the catalogue telling them what they can buy?!). If you've got a local shop that you're happy to continue using, have a chat with someone there - they should be able to point you in the direction of some alternatives. Other options are your local library, online retailers like Amazon, The Book Depository or Play, or online offerings like Comixology (I'm not a fan of reading comics on computer screens long-term, but digital comics are a cheap and easy way of sampling a series to see if it's something you'll enjoy).

Overall, I'd say don't lose heart - whether you're just going through a phase of being less interested in the superhero adventure comics or your tastes are shifting more permanently, there's still plenty of other material out there waiting for you to stumble cross it and it's almost guaranteed that you'll find something to enjoy

Thwip!

I tend to hold out for trades unless i'm amazeballs excited for a particular comic (like i am for America's Got Powers, so so great) or then i just tend to buy single comics of stuff from the 80s etc. Either way i'm getting stuff i know i'll like

Fuzz McG

KalEl88 it sounds like you need to try something new! I prescribe tracking down the first volumes of Prophet, Chew, The Unwritten, Criminal & Fatale (Ed Brubaker's creator-owned -and best - comics work), The Umbrella Academy, Scalped, King City, Hellboy & BPRD, Scott Pilgrim, Beasts of Burden and Saga.

I'd also recommend picking up 2000AD which is out every week or if you prefer buying trades then check out Judge Dredd: America and Origins, Nikolai Dante, Shakara, Necronauts, Low Life, Savage, Strontium Dog

Marvel and DC don't really make comics anymore; their job is primarily keeping a brand ticking over and providing fodder for other media like films, merchandise, television and cartoons. There is some good work still being done at these places (and most of it is centred on Batman, let's be honest) but these days those companies are just stepping stones for creators to to their own thing.

As to the current state of comics, the US comics industry is creatively at the healthiest its been in years, if not decades in my opinion. Marvel and DC are probably at their very worst but there's so much great stuff coming out of Image, Dark Horse etc. that they're more than filling that creative void.

statomosh

you could also check out some of the irish titles out at the moment.the amount of incredible irish creators around now is unreal.try titles like league of volunteers,zombies hi,celtic knights,nestor and lightning strikes.all these books are highly recommended.o'brien press are also releasing graphic novels now by the likes of alan nolan,damien goodwyn and gerry hunt,all worth tracking down.

gufnork

Fuzz McG wrote: »

I'd also recommend picking up 2000AD which is out every week or if you prefer buying trades then check out Judge Dredd: America and Origins, Nikolai Dante, Shakara, Necronauts, Low Life, Savage, Strontium Dog

I'd second this big time. The variety is a breath of fresh air. What I would say though is do give it a chance before you say Meh..., and throw it to one side. It's certainly not the usual DC, Marvel faire.

Anyway, good luck with the search.

Thwip!

statomosh wrote: »

you could also check out some of the irish titles out at the moment.the amount of incredible irish creators around now is unreal.try titles like league of volunteers,zombies hi,celtic knights,nestor and lightning strikes.all these books are highly recommended.o'brien press are also releasing graphic novels now by the likes of alan nolan,damien goodwyn and gerry hunt,all worth tracking down.

Add Finn and Fish,The wren into there too for good measure

KalEl88

Hi lads, thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it.

I'm a big reader of anything really, and comics have always been a passion of mine so I do know that outside of the mainstream, comics are healthy. It was mainly the superhero stuff I was talking about. I was never even that into the usual superhero stories that much, but I remember when I found a series that I really liked, I'd stick with that series over however long it was good, and re-reading them and re-reading them for years after. I know everyone here can relate.

I should have mentioned that I was talking about mainstream comics but I my blood was running after reading up on a few of those event comics I mentioned. (I really should chill out about these things)

Thanks Statomosh for the tip on Vertigo. I meant to ask what they are like now. I think the last time I was really into a Vertigo comic, it was around the time of Y The Last Man.

I'll check a few of the suggestions ye gave me that I didn't about, out. Thanks again.

Fuzz McG

If you're after superheroes, there's plenty of good superhero comics coming out like the new Daredevil stuff, America's Got Powers, The Umbrella Academy, Uncanny X-Force, Luther Strode, Hellboy & BRPD (though I guess they're more supernatural than superhero...)

"Mainstream" is a funny term these days, as stuff like The Walking Dead and Scott Pilgrim are technically way more successful than anything Marvel or DC have published in the last decade. More and more, the superhero genre is becoming niche (in comics) and are being overtaken by the independent or creator-owned work. Image's Saga sells more issues than the vast majority of Marvel and DC's output and The Walking Dead #100 was the biggest selling issue of the year, if not the decade.

I'd recommend checking out stuff from the creators of stories you liked: Brubaker's Gotham Central and Criminal should both be up your alley if you liked his Cap/Daredevil work. Grant Morrison is starting up some new stuff at Image this year as well so keep an eye out for that.

Mal-Adjusted

statomosh wrote: »

you could also check out some of the irish titles out at the moment.the amount of incredible irish creators around now is unreal.try titles like league of volunteers,zombies hi,celtic knights,nestor and lightning strikes.

yeah, if you can wait a year and a half between issue...

statomosh

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

yeah, if you can wait a year and a half between issue...

and thats the attitude that means that irish books take so long to come out.irish comics tend to be self released by the writers/artists and need to make sales before they can release more.none of these books have big companies behind them.

Mal-Adjusted

huh? irish books take so long to come out because people lose interest because irish books take so long to come out. circular thinking, no?
where's the attitude? just pointing out that the huge gaps between issues would do nothing to foster any interest in the books.

then again, you could always try to step away from your storyline after just 2 issues to do a one-shot instead. i'm sure THAT'S a good idea.

Fysh

As a general rule, if you're just starting out or don't have a great deal of money to put into publishing your comic, it's a good idea not to try and start by releasing a Huge Epic Series Which Will Run For Hundreds Of Issues - because while people might get on board with that if a new issue is out every month, if it's coming out at a rate of one or two issues a year, they'll get bored at the slow progress and lose interest.

Fuzz McG

I do think a regular schedule is important, particularly for single issues. Otherwise you're more likely to lose readers with each succeeding issue or readers will simply trade-wait, regardless of whether a trade ever actually happens because of low sales of the monthly.

Fysh

Fuzz McG wrote: »

I do think a regular schedule is important, particularly for single issues. Otherwise you're more likely to lose readers with each succeeding issue or readers will simply trade-wait, regardless of whether a trade ever actually happens because of low sales of the monthly.

I find myself growing ever more frustrated with the whole "oh, we couldn't do a trade as the single issues didn't pay off" attitude from larger publishers, because it is to my mind stupid thinking.

The audience for collected editions is, to a substantial extent, not the same as the audience for single issues. I get that for smaller publishers or titles with niche appeal the serialisation lets them offset production costs as they go, but the notion that low sales of a cost-ineffective serialised format can be indicative or representative of sales expected for a complete and self-contained book-format edition of the same material is stupid.

Aside from anything else, if you want to bring in money from the serialised form while cutting costs, the smart way to do it is digital releases - much easier to scale up, lower overheads, and wider reach.

But yes, as a general rule if you're small press or independently publishing your own stuff, start off small. I've lost count of the number of otherwise-promising artists who've tried to immediately launch into huge sprawling stories that fell apart two or three issues in because they couldn't afford to self-publish the whole thing. Either start off with self-contained stuff, or do your longform epic as a webcomic, sell the collections as they are completed and point people to your site for the ongoing story.

Thwip!

Fysh wrote: »

I find myself growing ever more frustrated with the whole "oh, we couldn't do a trade as the single issues didn't pay off" attitude from larger publishers, because it is to my mind stupid thinking.

The audience for collected editions is, to a substantial extent, not the same as the audience for single issues. I get that for smaller publishers or titles with niche appeal the serialisation lets them offset production costs as they go, but the notion that low sales of a cost-ineffective serialised format can be indicative or representative of sales expected for a complete and self-contained book-format edition of the same material is stupid.

Aside from anything else, if you want to bring in money from the serialised form while cutting costs, the smart way to do it is digital releases - much easier to scale up, lower overheads, and wider reach.

But yes, as a general rule if you're small press or independently publishing your own stuff, start off small. I've lost count of the number of otherwise-promising artists who've tried to immediately launch into huge sprawling stories that fell apart two or three issues in because they couldn't afford to self-publish the whole thing. Either start off with self-contained stuff, or do your longform epic as a webcomic, sell the collections as they are completed and point people to your site for the ongoing story.

That's my general plan anyway

jill_valentine

I remember when I was reading Runaways thinking "Well thank Christ for this, maybe superhero comics aren't dead after all!" but alas... Runaways lost momentum when Vaughan moved on and Marvel didn't seem to know how to capitalise on it or learn from it. It seemed like their movie success went to their heads and suddenly everything had to be a big blockbuster event or something.

Fysh

jill_valentine wrote: »

I remember when I was reading Runaways thinking "Well thank Christ for this, maybe superhero comics aren't dead after all!" but alas... Runaways lost momentum when Vaughan moved on and Marvel didn't seem to know how to capitalise on it or learn from it. It seemed like their movie success went to their heads and suddenly everything had to be a big blockbuster event or something.

I find that Marvel over the last 6 years or so have become more and more risk-averse (for want of a better way to put it) as they've become more solvent and had success with the movies. Stuff like the Lethem/Dalrymple Omega The Unknown series, or Nextwave, or probably Runaways or even Iron Man: Hypervelocity don't seem like they could happen now - or at least, not unless they had a Big Event Tie In With Crucial Developments! or a $3.99 cover price (Guest Starring Spider-Man - In His Latest New Costume!).

The success of the movies and subsequent Movie-fication of the main Marvel universe has rendered the Ultimate universe kind of pointless (although the desire to continue having longform monthly series was always going to do that) as well. They rarely do any interesting self-contained minis any more, as far as I can tell (well, with the exception of the Skottie Young Oz stuff). So yeah, it feels like Marvel have got the same problem DC had for years ie being beholden to their own continuity and terrified of releasing anything self-contained and standalone that didn't chain you to the monthly release cycle treadmill.

It's a shame, but I figure if they don't want my money I'll just go spend it elsewhere. It's not like I'm short on alternatives