Electrolyte Replacement V Carbohydrate sports drink

Ecoenergy

Training for my first DCM at the moment and I was wondering about using using something like the High 5 electrolyte replacement capsules as some of my friends who have previously ran marathons complain about the leg cramps in the later stages. To date I have just been using lucozade on my long runs and last week took my first Kinetica gel. I was thinking about replacing my lucozade with the high 5 capsules mixed with water for my training runs, and in the race itself I'll have the High 5 in my water bottles and can take sports drinks at miles 9, 12 & 18. I'd appreciate anyones input who may have used these electrolyte capsules in the past. Are they a good way of avoiding cramping and is it a good idea to replace my sports drink completely with these for training?

Cheers in advance.

rom

I use nuun tablets and they are great for the above. You can pre-load them the night before and the morn of the race too.

Insane1

The high5 tabs gave me terrible stomach issues. I find the maxifuel electro tabs fantastic!

carlton36

rom wrote: »

I use nuun tablets and they are great for the above. You can pre-load them the night before and the morn of the race too.

Thanks for the tip rom, everything helps.

Do you also take them during a marathon (eg in your water bottle) or do you find that the above is enough to prevent cramps during the race?

mossym

rom wrote: »

I use nuun tablets and they are great for the above. You can pre-load them the night before and the morn of the race too.

another vote for the nuun tablets, use them all the time on the bike, definitely think they help with cramps(did a 95km last saturday on a single bottle with nuun tabs in it), and for running. very easy on the stomach.

rom

carlton36 wrote: »

Thanks for the tip rom, everything helps.

Do you also take them during a marathon (eg in your water bottle) or do you find that the above is enough to prevent cramps during the race?

I play to this year but will them and then put them into the bottles on route instead.

EauRouge79

rom wrote: »

I use nuun tablets and they are great for the above. You can pre-load them the night before and the morn of the race too.

Im use NUUN as well and find them great. Really easy to drink and refreshing. Load of flavours to choose. I cant be bothered with stick orange drink like lucoazade sport.

bigslice

I'd be looking a bit of advise on this as well.

Would you use these tabs as a general drink ie before, during and after runs? I'd use them on longer runs but on shorter runs would just use water before and after?

Also during the marathon would you carry the Tabs and add them to the bottled water at the water stations.

Thanks

EauRouge79

bigslice wrote: »

I'd be looking a bit of advise on this as well.

Would you use these tabs as a general drink ie before, during and after runs? I'd use them on longer runs but on shorter runs would just use water before and after?

Also during the marathon would you carry the Tabs and add them to the bottled water at the water stations.

Thanks

Before, during and after to be honest. Would tend not to take on liquids in runs/races of less than 10 miles.
Would carry a couple of tabs to add to bottles as you suggest in Marathons. Very straightforward and you always have a drink that you are familiar with.

Ecoenergy

EauRouge79 wrote: »

Before, during and after to be honest. Would tend not to take on liquids in runs/races of less than 10 miles.
Would carry a couple of tabs to add to bottles as you suggest in Marathons. Very straightforward and you always have a drink that you are familiar with.

Just wondering if you take these tabs instead of a sports drink (lucozade or other) or take both? I've been reading that you should take carbs on board during the marathon and nuun have very few carbs. Do you reckon it would be a good idea to have lucozade in my belt bottles and a few nuun tabs to drop into water bottles? Cheers for the advice.

EauRouge79

Ecoenergy wrote: »

Just wondering if you take these tabs instead of a sports drink (lucozade or other) or take both? I've been reading that you should take carbs on board during the marathon and nuun have very few carbs. Do you reckon it would be a good idea to have lucozade in my belt bottles and a few nuun tabs to drop into water bottles? Cheers for the advice.

I take the tabs instead of the lucozade. Dont like the stickyness of sports drinks.
In terms of carbs I will generally take 3 gels during a marathon, one banana and a few GU jellies.

Really is just a case of trial and error though and whatever works for you.

Important to check that the organisers of the race are supplying bottled water to disolve your NUUN tabs. If its only cups then you may need to carry your own bottle and top it up as you go.
Hope this helps.

event

Where do ye get these Nuun tablets?
Bricks & mortar or online?

EauRouge79

event wrote: »

Where do ye get these Nuun tablets?
Bricks & mortar or online?

Bricks and Mortar for me, any good sports store with a running dept should stock these where you would finds gels etc.
Their are other brands as well such as ZYM which im sure will do the same for you.

corkrunner71

I'm also interested in finding out more on this. My own issue is I tend to sweat a hell of a lot while running and I find on long runs (+20 miles) I cramp up near end of run. On Saturday in Dingle it was particularly bad. I usually take gels on a marathon or ultra but can only stomach so much of them so I was looking up info on salt capsules to see if they would help. Are they completely separate from the likes of Nuun tabs or do they both do a similar job. Has anyone on here used salt capsules for a similar issue and more importantly, did it help. Thanks for any advise/info.

TFBubendorfer

corkrunner71 wrote: »

I'm also interested in finding out more on this. My own issue is I tend to sweat a hell of a lot while running and I find on long runs (+20 miles) I cramp up near end of run. On Saturday in Dingle it was particularly bad. I usually take gels on a marathon or ultra but can only stomach so much of them so I was looking up info on salt capsules to see if they would help. Are they completely separate from the likes of Nuun tabs or do they both do a similar job. Has anyone on here used salt capsules for a similar issue and more importantly, did it help. Thanks for any advise/info.

Salt tablet are similar to Nuun tablets as their main purpose is to replace electrolytes. Neither of them are meant as replacements for sports drink - as has been mentioned, they don't contain any carbs.

I used salt tables in Dingle and I have used Nuun before as well; neither are fool proof to prevent cramps. To be honest, cramping during late miles of a marathon or ultra is most likely a sign of lacking fitness and no nutritional product is going to help with that.

rom

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Salt tablet are similar to Nuun tablets as their main purpose is to replace electrolytes. Neither of them are meant as replacements for sports drink - as has been mentioned, they don't contain any carbs.

I used salt tables in Dingle and I have used Nuun before as well; neither are fool proof to prevent cramps. To be honest, cramping during late miles of a marathon or ultra is most likely a sign of lacking fitness and no nutritional product is going to help with that.

In respect to using Nuun in a marathon. Do you preload and how much of them do you take etc. Just interested in what you find works ?

corkrunner71

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Salt tablet are similar to Nuun tablets as their main purpose is to replace electrolytes. Neither of them are meant as replacements for sports drink - as has been mentioned, they don't contain any carbs.

I used salt tables in Dingle and I have used Nuun before as well; neither are fool proof to prevent cramps. To be honest, cramping during late miles of a marathon or ultra is most likely a sign of lacking fitness and no nutritional product is going to help with that.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to look at how all the training went really and see what can be improved upon. I thought I had enough miles in the tank leading up to Saturday and felt good for a lot of the run but it just went downhill towards the end. I'll also need to look at gels and my food intake while running, as my stomach seems to only withstand a certain amount of these. Will have to experiment more if I'm to continue with the longer races. I guess I'm looking for any little advantage I can give myself. What make of salt tabs are you using if you don't mind me asking.

TFBubendorfer

rom wrote: »

In respect to using Nuun in a marathon. Do you preload and how much of them do you take etc. Just interested in what you find works ?

You can have a bottle of it beforehand, if that counts as pre-loading, but I have no idea if that makes any difference whatsoever. I would use Nuun in ultras, not marathons, but on a hot day when you sweat a lot they may well make a difference in a marathon.

TFBubendorfer

corkrunner71 wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to look at how all the training went really and see what can be improved upon. I thought I had enough miles in the tank leading up to Saturday and felt good for a lot of the run but it just went downhill towards the end. I'll also need to look at gels and my food intake while running, as my stomach seems to only withstand a certain amount of these. Will have to experiment more if I'm to continue with the longer races. I guess I'm looking for any little advantage I can give myself. What make of salt tabs are you using if you don't mind me asking.

I can usually take only 2 or 3 gels during a marathon myself, but that together with a bottle or two of sports drink is entirely sufficient to get me round.

During Saturday's ultra I had 8 or 9 gels; the slower pace makes it easier on the stomach to digest them, but even so I had pretty much had to force them down. My stomach definitely prefers sports drink, but that's an individual thing and gels are so much easier to carry around.

My salt tabs were succeed s-caps; unfortunately the 3 or 4 I took in Dingle were the last ones of my batch and when I tried to order some more a few months ago they were trying to charge me something like $50 for shipping alone! :eek:

A lot of salt tablets have very little sodium in them, I noticed. I might try saltsticks, unless I can find a way to get s-caps at more reasonable prices.

Peterx

Dioraylte sachets are good as well.

Very light, easy to carry 3 of them and they kill cramp. Available in any chemist/pharmacy.

Throw one in your mouth and swiftly follow with a slug of water.

Insane1

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

My salt tabs were succeed s-caps; unfortunately the 3 or 4 I took in Dingle were the last ones of my batch and when I tried to order some more a few months ago they were trying to charge me something like $50 for shipping alone! :eek

Thomas, i had the same issue with shipping from the US but came across a crowd in the UK that sells s-caps. Very difficult to get here.. £16.99 for the s-caps and about £4 shipping.

http://www.centurionrunning.com/store/product/succeed-scaps/

TFBubendorfer

Insane1 wrote: »

£16.99 for the s-caps and about £4 shipping.

http://www.centurionrunning.com/store/product/succeed-scaps/

16.99 GBP = 27.0678 USD!!!

On the original site s-caps are $13.95. In other words, we pay twice the amount for the same product!

Still, thanks for the tip. I will probably go for that, feeling ripped off.

Larry Brent

Hi corkrunner71,

I saw your post about electrolytes. I've tried to learn about this recently so here goes....

Came at this from the background that taking minimal water and the odd gel on long runs in training, I felt great on 22milers a few weeks before the marathon. Then, in the marathon, I'd struggle a lot earlier on compared to when doing the same pace (for less time obviously) in training. The main difference being that in marathons I was throwing as much water as I could down me every water stop. So I tried to learn more about fuelling and hydration.

At a Toronto marathon expo I came across these guys http://www.myh2pro.com/#2 It's well worth reading their hydration 101 bit to get a bit of background. Basically they argue that everyone's sweat has a genetically determined amount of sodium in it. This can range from 400mg to 2000mg / Litre of sweat, with the average being 950mg sodium / litre of sweat. Also sweat rates vary immensely, but the average is 1200ml of sweat per hour. They argue that it would be very difficult (and maybe not desirable) to replace 1200ml per hour so just drink to thirst/comfort levels. But they argue that it is important to put the same concentration of sodium back in that came out in sweat.

So they test the sodium concentration in your sweat and this gives you a figure to work from. So say they said that you lost 1000mg sodium per litre of sweat, you could just put enough Nuun, or s caps or whatever into water to make up that concentration. The amount of sodium you'd use could vary a lot depending on whether you were closer to 400mg or 2000mg on the spectrum... The H2Pro people also provide 4 different strength salt tabs - essentially 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 mg sodium per litre when added to water (in case you go looking at their site, they are actually called 250, 500, 750 and 1000, but that's on the basis that you add them to 500mls of water...). As I understand it they are only in Canada, UK and New Zealand to date. Although apparently the test they use is the same used to test for cystic fibrosis, so perhaps access to the test may be possible in Ireland with the right connections!

Having gone through this process I then got Tim Noakes book Waterlogged which basically says that we just need 400-600ml of fluid per hour and 60g of carbohydrate and sodium is only needed if it makes it more pallatable (which I find it does, I never liked taking water when running, but find the sodium tabs [slight citrus taste] very refreshing)!

h2pro cite studies that show reduced cramping in endurance athletes with sodium ingestion and increased power output in cyclists. Noakes argues that the evidence isn't there to support this, but then holes have been picked in the critical analysis he uses to come to this conclusion, so need to read some more to try and get closer to the bottom of it.

Finally, if the average person sweats a concentration of 950mg sodium per litre of sweat, the concentrations of sodium in many sports drinks are way too low (and many salt tablets also). Even the gatorade 'electrolyte replenishment' drink would only have about 340mg per litre I think. About the best I've found is the 'gatorade pro 02 perform endurance formula' - 800mg/litre. I've not seen this in any shops but it can be ordered inline. By the way, this is what they give out at New York marathon. I've seen another drink called Kona Ironman or something which might have higher sodium concentration again, but don't know more about this.

Best of luck.

RacoonQueen

Larry Brent wrote: »

Hi corkrunner71,

I saw your post about electrolytes. I've tried to learn about this recently so here goes....

Came at this from the background that taking minimal water and the odd gel on long runs in training, I felt great on 22milers a few weeks before the marathon. Then, in the marathon, I'd struggle a lot earlier on compared to when doing the same pace (for less time obviously) in training. The main difference being that in marathons I was throwing as much water as I could down me every water stop. So I tried to learn more about fuelling and hydration.

Interesting. I train without water and gels and have struggled in the latter stages with of my last couple of marathon plus distance races with serious stomach cramps. Similarly, I'd be taking on water (and gels) in these races - so could definitely be a connection there.