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US versus Irish Petrol

  • 22-08-2012 2:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭


    Was in the U.S. two weeks ago

    Petrol was just 68 (euro) cent a litre

    Why the hell are we paying 170 cent a litre?

    Surely Diesel should be taxed higher than petrol due to the relative carcinogy of diesel versus petrol?

    The highest octane available was 85 - this was premium!

    83 was regular...

    Why are we so skewed when it comes to fuel?

    Considering street lights are now paid for by local authorities and the second home tax is for water and local roads - surely road tax should be irradicated / reduced?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Short answer - because that's the way the voters want it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Octane umbers in the US are different to here. It was probably the Motor Octane Number you saw displayed where 83 is about 91-92 using the RON we use here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 rubysgirl


    According to Today FM yesterday:
    54% of what you pay for petrol goes to the government. 51% for diesel. So technically we are getting it for that price, but with a tip for Enda and co.!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭pete4130


    The US has more cars per capita.

    It's the main transport method.

    Car is King.

    It has its own oil resources.

    It's not taxed as heavily as here.

    Fuel isn't taxed due to its health ramifications.

    If for example all cars are taxed at Band A (€106 or something?) and there are 1.5 million cars in the country thats €159million in revenue at LEAST. If you want your road tax reduced then see the quality in your public services drop accordingly....whether you agree they are good value or not....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,749 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    gpf101 wrote: »
    Octane umbers in the US are different to here.

    ...nothing to do with it, I:rolleyes: mean, really........

    ...the answer is the Irish government, and more specifically, tax. 60% - 70% iirc.

    Because the petrol only accounts for 35% of the money per litre you pay, a rising oil price only affects that 35% portion...plus some VAT, so the impact on the per-litre price is somewhat diminished.

    In the US however, the petrol product itself accounts for, say, 90% of the price you pay, so a 20% hike in oil has a big effect on the price-per-litre you pay, instantly. It's why it yo-yo's so much in the States, compared to here.

    oh, and, my sister is moaning about paying €0.69c/litre......... :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,749 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    pete4130 wrote: »
    It has its own oil resources.

    It's not taxed as heavily as here.


    The US relies on imported oil for 70% of it's consumption.

    + on the tax (see above)

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    pete4130 wrote: »
    The US has more cars per capita.

    It's the main transport method.

    Car is King.

    It has its own oil resources.

    It's not taxed as heavily as here.

    Fuel isn't taxed due to its health ramifications.

    If for example all cars are taxed at Band A (€106 or something?) and there are 1.5 million cars in the country thats €159million in revenue at LEAST. If you want your road tax reduced then see the quality in your public services drop accordingly....whether you agree they are good value or not....

    I would guess that we have more car driving people here. In the US many people have 2 cars but its much less popular here. In the US many cities have public transport that eradicates the need for cars.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭Wolverine_1999


    I would guess that we have more car driving people here. In the US many people have 2 cars but its much less popular here. In the US many cities have public transport that eradicates the need for cars.

    I would think that petrol prices are high in countries which normally have good public transport. (Rest of Europe.. UK, Germany, France etc.)

    Because the U.S is so large and sparse I'm sure many people can only rely on cars, so petrol is cheaper to accommodate that. So you could see Ireland the U.S on a par, but at a much lower population.

    However Ireland:

    - Shafted for Motor Tax
    - Shafted for Petrol Prices
    - NO (Being honest..) Public Transport
    - NO Incentives for driving a car
    - Brown envelopes for Politicians (Look at the natural resources of Ireland.. GONE)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    galwaytt wrote: »
    The US relies on imported oil for 70% of it's consumption.

    + on the tax (see above)

    That figure is highly inaccurate.

    http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/imports_domestic_petro_shares_demand-large.gif

    and getting even further from the truth

    http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/depend_on_imports_1949-2011-large.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,313 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    - Shafted for Motor Tax

    It's a crap system, but its the most practicable one at the minute. It's not going to change.
    - NO (Being honest..) Public Transport

    Anywhere outside of Dublin commuter belt, yes, there really isn't.
    - NO Incentives for driving a car

    Why should there be? In urban centers, the last thing we need is more cars. Public transport, motorbikes, bicycles are the things we need to be encouraging in urban centers. Unless there is a incentive to use hybrids/electric cars but that only solves the emission problems but not the congestion problem.
    - Brown envelopes for Politicians (Look at the natural resources of Ireland.. GONE)

    I presume you're talking about the petroleum resources of Ireland? Coillte, ESB and BnM all have a respectable record with our natural resources. Petroleum exploration is a risky, expensive business. The Government cannot afford the exploration costs nor can it justify the risk of the exploration going wrong. This is where private companies step in. We do get taxes off them you know....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭firefly08


    The highest octane available was 85 - this was premium!

    83 was regular...

    Whereabouts were you? :confused: 91 is generally regarded as premium and is available in most areas (that's 91 in the US system). But I have been to a few places where I could only find 83 or 85 (usually pretty out of the way places though!)

    As has been said, it is tax - that is the reason. However the reasons for the difference in how it's taxed are not rational reasons, such as people need it more, or it's bad for your health, or they don't have public transport etc. It is a cultural thing - "tax" is a bad word in the US.

    In contrast, in Ireland we love tax so much we have a dozen different words for it...duties, levies, excise, "charges", (that one makes me lol), rates, VAT etc.

    Much like the way the Eskimos have loads of words for snow :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    firefly08 wrote: »

    In contrast, in Ireland we love tax so much we have a dozen different words for it...duties, levies, excise, "charges", (that one makes me lol), rates, VAT etc.

    Much like the way the Eskimos have loads of words for snow :P

    I was in the midwest - count me out with the love for tax...

    over half my income must be going on tax, USC, Income, pension levy, PRSI, I just paid another 60 euros this month on levies for the quinn group - 20 on car insurance, 20 on house insurance and 20 on life insurance - its a total joke.

    I feel like I'm bailing out the banks everytime I go the pumps...


    I want to immigrate just to get away from these stupid taxes... I wouldn't mind but they seem to be going nowhere...

    What am I missing, I must be special if you all love them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Joe 90


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Short answer - because that's the way the voters want it.
    I've always been of the opinion that European governments have been around longer than the US government and have had much more experience of screwing the general population. While the Irish government is fairly new, only being in existence for 90 years or so, it copies the worst of UK legislation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭firefly08


    Andy454 wrote: »
    I was in the midwest - count me out with the love for tax...

    over half my income must be going on tax, USC, Income, pension levy, PRSI, I just paid another 60 euros this month on levies for the quinn group - 20 on car insurance, 20 on house insurance and 20 on life insurance - its a total joke.

    I feel like I'm bailing out the banks everytime I go the pumps...


    I want to immigrate just to get away from these stupid taxes... I wouldn't mind but they seem to be going nowhere...

    What am I missing, I must be special if you all love them?

    Well when I said "we" love them I didn't really mean me either, I'm against it too - but as Anan said, this is the way the voters wanted it. Of course no one wants to be the one actually paying the tax, but everyone seems to want the government to collect lots of tax from somewhere. Trouble is, if you think they should be collecting lots of tax, and you support it, then you can't very well complain when they come knocking on your door once they've bled everyone else dry. That's what a lot of Americans are afraid of - support taxes on someone else today, and tomorrow it'll be you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    I'll vote for anyone who'll cut tax at this stage especially fuel duty - its costing me an absolute fortune - hell, I'd even forgive FF if I thought they'd bring down a few of these taxes....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭Andy454


    deccurley wrote: »
    A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.

    I rekon they may be on to something there - There have been definite times when filling up at different service stations that I've noticed deeper vibrations while the car is in idle....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Americans will simply not allow their politicians to increase the taxes on fuel. They will be voted out of they do.

    IIRC, Federal taxes on a gallon are still just 18 cents. State taxes on fuel vary, but the average tax on a gallon of petrol here is 48 cents, or approx 10 Euro cent per litre.

    Irish people however are whipped dogs that roll over and let the government screw them over and over again.
    No different to when we were run by the British.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Irish people however are whipped dogs that roll over and let the government screw them over and over again.

    As opposed to the Americans and British who allow their pups to be sent to foreign lands (at the behest of a bunch of millionaire fools) to die for the very substance (oil) that you like complaining about?
    No different to when we were run by the British.

    The British were driven from the vast majority of Ireland and even in the parts they remained they were brought to stalemate by paramilitaries. The British army had to travel around bandit country by helicopter.

    So I guess.. you're talking through your 'bore hole'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,183 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    deccurley wrote: »
    A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.

    Seeing as ~40% of our fuel comes from our own refinery, and the rest is bought on the open market, mostly from Rotterdam, this story is nothing more than some Russians trying to make fun of the Paddy, basically.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...nothing to do with it, I:rolleyes: mean, really........

    ...the answer is the Irish government, and more specifically, tax. 60% - 70% iirc.

    Because the petrol only accounts for 35% of the money per litre you pay, a rising oil price only affects that 35% portion...plus some VAT, so the impact on the per-litre price is somewhat diminished.

    In the US however, the petrol product itself accounts for, say, 90% of the price you pay, so a 20% hike in oil has a big effect on the price-per-litre you pay, instantly. It's why it yo-yo's so much in the States, compared to here.

    oh, and, my sister is moaning about paying €0.69c/litre......... :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

    Nothing to do with what? All I was saying was the octane rating on fuel in the States is different to here. Everyone knows there is a hight tax on fuel here (and in Europe). I only said it because the OP mentioned octane numbers in the post and just pointed out they are different in the US.

    What's with the:rolleyes: ? Are you 13 or something?


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