US versus Irish Petrol

Andy454

Was in the U.S. two weeks ago

Petrol was just 68 (euro) cent a litre

Why the hell are we paying 170 cent a litre?

Surely Diesel should be taxed higher than petrol due to the relative carcinogy of diesel versus petrol?

The highest octane available was 85 - this was premium!

83 was regular...

Why are we so skewed when it comes to fuel?

Considering street lights are now paid for by local authorities and the second home tax is for water and local roads - surely road tax should be irradicated / reduced?

Anan1

Short answer - because that's the way the voters want it.

Nonoperational

Octane umbers in the US are different to here. It was probably the Motor Octane Number you saw displayed where 83 is about 91-92 using the RON we use here.

rubysgirl

According to Today FM yesterday:
54% of what you pay for petrol goes to the government. 51% for diesel. So technically we are getting it for that price, but with a tip for Enda and co.!

pete4130

The US has more cars per capita.

It's the main transport method.

Car is King.

It has its own oil resources.

It's not taxed as heavily as here.

Fuel isn't taxed due to its health ramifications.

If for example all cars are taxed at Band A (€106 or something?) and there are 1.5 million cars in the country thats €159million in revenue at LEAST. If you want your road tax reduced then see the quality in your public services drop accordingly....whether you agree they are good value or not....

galwaytt

gpf101 wrote: »

Octane umbers in the US are different to here.

...nothing to do with it, I:rolleyes: mean, really........

...the answer is the Irish government, and more specifically, tax. 60% - 70% iirc.

Because the petrol only accounts for 35% of the money per litre you pay, a rising oil price only affects that 35% portion...plus some VAT, so the impact on the per-litre price is somewhat diminished.

In the US however, the petrol product itself accounts for, say, 90% of the price you pay, so a 20% hike in oil has a big effect on the price-per-litre you pay, instantly. It's why it yo-yo's so much in the States, compared to here.

oh, and, my sister is moaning about paying €0.69c/litre......... :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

galwaytt

pete4130 wrote: »

It has its own oil resources.

It's not taxed as heavily as here.

The US relies on imported oil for 70% of it's consumption.

+ on the tax (see above)

fasttalkerchat

pete4130 wrote: »

The US has more cars per capita.

It's the main transport method.

Car is King.

It has its own oil resources.

It's not taxed as heavily as here.

Fuel isn't taxed due to its health ramifications.

If for example all cars are taxed at Band A (€106 or something?) and there are 1.5 million cars in the country thats €159million in revenue at LEAST. If you want your road tax reduced then see the quality in your public services drop accordingly....whether you agree they are good value or not....

I would guess that we have more car driving people here. In the US many people have 2 cars but its much less popular here. In the US many cities have public transport that eradicates the need for cars.

Wolverine_1999

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I would guess that we have more car driving people here. In the US many people have 2 cars but its much less popular here. In the US many cities have public transport that eradicates the need for cars.

I would think that petrol prices are high in countries which normally have good public transport. (Rest of Europe.. UK, Germany, France etc.)

Because the U.S is so large and sparse I'm sure many people can only rely on cars, so petrol is cheaper to accommodate that. So you could see Ireland the U.S on a par, but at a much lower population.

However Ireland:

- Shafted for Motor Tax
- Shafted for Petrol Prices
- NO (Being honest..) Public Transport
- NO Incentives for driving a car
- Brown envelopes for Politicians (Look at the natural resources of Ireland.. GONE)

Tabnabs

galwaytt wrote: »

The US relies on imported oil for 70% of it's consumption.

+ on the tax (see above)

That figure is highly inaccurate.

http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/imports_domestic_petro_shares_demand-large.gif

and getting even further from the truth

http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/depend_on_imports_1949-2011-large.jpg

Mycroft H

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

- Shafted for Motor Tax

It's a crap system, but its the most practicable one at the minute. It's not going to change.

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

- NO (Being honest..) Public Transport

Anywhere outside of Dublin commuter belt, yes, there really isn't.

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

- NO Incentives for driving a car

Why should there be? In urban centers, the last thing we need is more cars. Public transport, motorbikes, bicycles are the things we need to be encouraging in urban centers. Unless there is a incentive to use hybrids/electric cars but that only solves the emission problems but not the congestion problem.

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

- Brown envelopes for Politicians (Look at the natural resources of Ireland.. GONE)

I presume you're talking about the petroleum resources of Ireland? Coillte, ESB and BnM all have a respectable record with our natural resources. Petroleum exploration is a risky, expensive business. The Government cannot afford the exploration costs nor can it justify the risk of the exploration going wrong. This is where private companies step in. We do get taxes off them you know....

firefly08

The highest octane available was 85 - this was premium!

83 was regular...

Whereabouts were you? 91 is generally regarded as premium and is available in most areas (that's 91 in the US system). But I have been to a few places where I could only find 83 or 85 (usually pretty out of the way places though!)

As has been said, it is tax - that is the reason. However the reasons for the difference in how it's taxed are not rational reasons, such as people need it more, or it's bad for your health, or they don't have public transport etc. It is a cultural thing - "tax" is a bad word in the US.

In contrast, in Ireland we love tax so much we have a dozen different words for it...duties, levies, excise, "charges", (that one makes me lol), rates, VAT etc.

Much like the way the Eskimos have loads of words for snow :P

Andy454

firefly08 wrote: »

In contrast, in Ireland we love tax so much we have a dozen different words for it...duties, levies, excise, "charges", (that one makes me lol), rates, VAT etc.

Much like the way the Eskimos have loads of words for snow :P

I was in the midwest - count me out with the love for tax...

over half my income must be going on tax, USC, Income, pension levy, PRSI, I just paid another 60 euros this month on levies for the quinn group - 20 on car insurance, 20 on house insurance and 20 on life insurance - its a total joke.

I feel like I'm bailing out the banks everytime I go the pumps...


I want to immigrate just to get away from these stupid taxes... I wouldn't mind but they seem to be going nowhere...

What am I missing, I must be special if you all love them?

Joe 90

Anan1 wrote: »

Short answer - because that's the way the voters want it.

I've always been of the opinion that European governments have been around longer than the US government and have had much more experience of screwing the general population. While the Irish government is fairly new, only being in existence for 90 years or so, it copies the worst of UK legislation.

firefly08

Andy454 wrote: »

I was in the midwest - count me out with the love for tax...

over half my income must be going on tax, USC, Income, pension levy, PRSI, I just paid another 60 euros this month on levies for the quinn group - 20 on car insurance, 20 on house insurance and 20 on life insurance - its a total joke.

I feel like I'm bailing out the banks everytime I go the pumps...


I want to immigrate just to get away from these stupid taxes... I wouldn't mind but they seem to be going nowhere...

What am I missing, I must be special if you all love them?

Well when I said "we" love them I didn't really mean me either, I'm against it too - but as Anan said, this is the way the voters wanted it. Of course no one wants to be the one actually paying the tax, but everyone seems to want the government to collect lots of tax from somewhere. Trouble is, if you think they should be collecting lots of tax, and you support it, then you can't very well complain when they come knocking on your door once they've bled everyone else dry. That's what a lot of Americans are afraid of - support taxes on someone else today, and tomorrow it'll be you.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.

Andy454

I'll vote for anyone who'll cut tax at this stage especially fuel duty - its costing me an absolute fortune - hell, I'd even forgive FF if I thought they'd bring down a few of these taxes....

Andy454

deccurley wrote: »

A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.

I rekon they may be on to something there - There have been definite times when filling up at different service stations that I've noticed deeper vibrations while the car is in idle....

Pkiernan

Americans will simply not allow their politicians to increase the taxes on fuel. They will be voted out of they do.

IIRC, Federal taxes on a gallon are still just 18 cents. State taxes on fuel vary, but the average tax on a gallon of petrol here is 48 cents, or approx 10 Euro cent per litre.

Irish people however are whipped dogs that roll over and let the government screw them over and over again.
No different to when we were run by the British.

Chuck Stone

Pkiernan wrote: »

Irish people however are whipped dogs that roll over and let the government screw them over and over again.

As opposed to the Americans and British who allow their pups to be sent to foreign lands (at the behest of a bunch of millionaire fools) to die for the very substance (oil) that you like complaining about?

No different to when we were run by the British.

The British were driven from the vast majority of Ireland and even in the parts they remained they were brought to stalemate by paramilitaries. The British army had to travel around bandit country by helicopter.

So I guess.. you're talking through your 'bore hole'.

L1011

deccurley wrote: »

A cousin of mine who used to work on the Rigs in the North Sea reckons the Russian lads he used to work with there used to slag him about the shíte fuel we get in Ireland. Apparently the tankers that come from Russia make their last stop in Ireland and we get the sludge left at the bottom of the tank.

Seeing as ~40% of our fuel comes from our own refinery, and the rest is bought on the open market, mostly from Rotterdam, this story is nothing more than some Russians trying to make fun of the Paddy, basically.

Nonoperational

galwaytt wrote: »

...nothing to do with it, I:rolleyes: mean, really........

...the answer is the Irish government, and more specifically, tax. 60% - 70% iirc.

Because the petrol only accounts for 35% of the money per litre you pay, a rising oil price only affects that 35% portion...plus some VAT, so the impact on the per-litre price is somewhat diminished.

In the US however, the petrol product itself accounts for, say, 90% of the price you pay, so a 20% hike in oil has a big effect on the price-per-litre you pay, instantly. It's why it yo-yo's so much in the States, compared to here.

oh, and, my sister is moaning about paying €0.69c/litre......... :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with what? All I was saying was the octane rating on fuel in the States is different to here. Everyone knows there is a hight tax on fuel here (and in Europe). I only said it because the OP mentioned octane numbers in the post and just pointed out they are different in the US.

What's with the:rolleyes: ? Are you 13 or something?