Thinking of starting up a bookshop; would appreciate stories of personal experience.

Lord TSC

Having been unemployed for a while now, I've decided that it might be time for me to take things into my own hands. I'm pretty well educated, motivated and dedicated to what I put my mind to, I've got some money behind me (not alot but some), so I'm starting to look into what it would take to launch my own bookstore.

I know these topics tend to have people reply along the lines of "Don't do it", but being honest, I'm not looking for posts like that. I'm not saying this is something I am definitely doing and I'm not looking for people to say if it's a good or bad idea because they think I'm dead set on a foolish venture; I'm just trying to research how much start up costs would be, who are the best suppliers and how much do they cost, etc. I'm going into this with eyes open :P

What I'd love though is the chance to talk to some people who started up their own shops (preferably experience of bookshops but any would do really) and who wouldn't mind me asking them questions about their experience starting up. Some people who wouldn't mind if I fired them off some PMs and discussed what they felt they did right and what they felt they did wrong, so I could learn and continue my research into the project

Would anyone be interested in telling me their story? I'd appreciate it greatly.

Ballyman

I have set up a business but it's not a shop so I can't be of any use to you really but I really would love to know if you don't mind, why a bookshop??

ifah

Ballyman wrote: »

I have set up a business but it's not a shop so I can't be of any use to you really but I really would love to know if you don't mind, why a bookshop??

Me too - why a bookshop ?

I know you stated you didn't want any nay sayers but perhaps some feedback from a prospective customer and avid reader.

At present I read about 2 books per week - the house is full of books, kids and my wife read alot so we buy a lot of books BUT - we never (almost) buy from a bricks and mortar shop. All real books are bought online, kids might pick up a book in easons or somewhere now and then but about 95% of physical books are bought online. (wife buys a lot of cook books & kids are too little for ebooks)

As for me - i only use a kindle now and have done so for past couple of years.
My wife also has a kindle for fiction reading.

A lot of our circle of family and friends have been transitioning over to ebooks over past year also..... have you taken this trend into your business plan ?

Lord TSC

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude in saying "No naysayers". Reading back over the opening most, maybe I was too abrupt in such a statement. I have no problem answering that question.

I love books. And I know there's a gap in the market in my locality, due to the fact there's only two book stores in my town and both are centralised in shopping centers. Both constantly have people in them though. The place I'm currently enquiring about, location wise, has no such shop in it though, and a pretty big passing trade of people. The location I'm currently researching would, in my opinion (and I'm obviously still researching it), have people passing by constantly, all day, every day. So the trick then is to get them inside....

I know ebooks have surged in popularity, but it seems to me that there is still a large contingency of people out there who don't buy online, either because they don't trust the internet or because they prefer to go in, browse and buy the book themselves. I understand that the net has cut into bookstore sales, and it's worth pointing out I have ideas to make it more than "just a bookstore", so to speak. I know the biggest struggle would be fighting people who buy online, but I do think a shop with the right attractions can still lure people in.

Bandara

I fear your 5 years away from the road that Xtravision etc finds itself at now.

Peterdalkey

We had a fantastic bookshop selling both new and used books and doing exchange books in Dalkey. It sadly closed just before the summer, people came from all over but just not enough business to sustain it. Dalkey has a big book festival and is known as the home of ma ny authors and writers, and still the shop closed.
I would be very fearful for your prospects with shop overheads. I would suggest you consider doing a combination of online and market type stalls, focussed on a small number of niches. You could use your site and stall to buy too!

Lplated

I hate being a 'naysayer' about anything, but particularly in respect of someone trying to start a business... but ...

It's not that long since Borders, a huge internatinal chain with supreme buying power, made a huge loss in Ireland, and closed, made a huge loss in England, and sold the rights to their business, and made a huge loss in America and then went bankrupt completely.

As an industry, publishing is struggling, the competition from tablets and e-readers is just too strong.

In an economy in recession, people are looking to save money. Books, for the most part, are a leisure 'discretionary' item - even where people are still buying, they will often browse in a bookshop but then buy cheaper online.

/End of negativity.

If you are going to go for something like this, you need a niche - and I don't mean specialising in a genre [like science fiction or something] - I mean a completely new way of doing things.

Maybe - look at self publishing sites and see if you could act as the main street outlet for [good] authors that dont have a publisher or agent yet - if you could manage that at least your product wouldn't be found anywhere else offline and you might 'find' the next big thing.

Maybe - look at opening an online bookstore first [but this will also be hard as you're competing with Amazon/ebay etc... ]

Maybe - look at pop-up shops, thus avoiding the heavy lease and key money that getting a bricks and mortar store involves.

sandin

I'll give an opposite viewpoint - yes there is space for bookshops. Many people like to flick through books before they buy, BUT you will have to make it an "experience" that they will enjoy and look for customer loyalty.

Also, look for some other products that complement the customer you are aiming for and also ensure a good selection of "bargain books"

Plenty of bookshops still doing well - Barker & Jones in Naas are always busy. Easons are doing a clomplete makeover of all their shops (they also have a franchise operation you may want to look at) and made a good trading profit last year (they made overall loss when property adjustment and one off costs were added)


You do have one advantage - rents are cheap. For a bookshop to survive, you need to be a prime location so that the other parts of the business can cover the costs. You will get a good size (2500sq ft) store in most good towns for about 30k a year.

If I were doing a bookshop, I'd have magazines, Lotto, small selection of confectionary, coffee bar - all in front half of the shop. And then the books in the back half. Have plenty of small seats to allow customers sit and read the books and hope that they buy them (you'll always have some wasters). Get as many of them on a mailing list and email them twice a month.

Qualitymark

I'm not a bookshop owner, first. Sorry for butting in...

Loved that Dalkey bookshop and was so sad to see it go, @Peterdalkey.

I'd serve coffee and cakes; most people who buy books are female, and you're much more likely to sell a book if they're coming in already for a snack and a chat. Rathgar Books, I think it's called, does this - a nook at the back - as do many other small shops.

Keeping magazines is a great idea.

What about looking for an SME course that'll teach you about pricing and overheads? FÁS (or whatever it's currently called) do these. Maybe try and get a placement working somewhere like the Sheela na Gig in Cloughjordan, Co Tipperary, a tiny bookshop that runs lots of lectures and readings by local writers and gives space to writers' workshops to have their meetings (several people from their workshops are now published by official publishers).

Watch out for the profit-grinding of book distribution; it used to be common practice, and perhaps still is, to provide books at a particular price to small shops, then drop the price drastically in the big chains, to the loss of both authors and small shops.

Sure, people are reading on Kindle and iPad, I do myself, but honestly I don't know how much of a market there really is. At one stage my own book of short stories was high in the charts for literary fiction on iTunes; I was outselling James Joyce! I had sold, I think, two copies.

Lord TSC

Peterdalkey wrote: »

We had a fantastic bookshop selling both new and used books and doing exchange books in Dalkey. It sadly closed just before the summer, people came from all over but just not enough business to sustain it. Dalkey has a big book festival and is known as the home of ma ny authors and writers, and still the shop closed.
I would be very fearful for your prospects with shop overheads. I would suggest you consider doing a combination of online and market type stalls, focussed on a small number of niches. You could use your site and stall to buy too!

It strikes me you're the type of person I was hoping would post on here, and I'd love to tap into your experience. Would you mind if I fired some questions over to you via the PM system with regards figures and start up costs? I know some people might not want to talk the specific details of their business ventures, but I'd love to get some information out of you if possible

And thanks for the posts so far. This topic is going exactly like I hoped it would, in terms of getting discussion on the topic.

I said above that I had ideas for it to be more than "just a bookshop" and the coffee bar idea provided by sandin is one of the things I was looking at. I'd be trying to provide a more intimate, cosy atmosphere than the big brand stores, and having a coffee area, some sofas and things like that would be a big part of creating that atmosphere. I adore the idea of getting new authors a place to sell their wares; I'm an unpublished author myself so I know how thrilled I'd be with the chance of having a shop offer to help push my titles. I'd also try and strike up other deals with local artists and the likes wishing to advertise their wares.

I've got a big note pad here I'm using to keep track of my research here and am writing in it constantly :P

I want to address this though...

Hammertime wrote: »

I fear your 5 years away from the road that Xtravision etc finds itself at now.

I know digitial distribution of print media is a constantly evolving beast, but I don't have the same fear for books as I do for movies, TV shows, etc.

In visual media, there's always been a constant evolution in distrubtion techniques; in my lifetime alone, I've seen video tapes change into DVDs, change into blue rays, change into online streaming. Likewise, music has gone from tapes to CDs to minidisc players to ipods.... but books are books. Yeah, some people will turn to eReaders, but I do think that there's always going to be a market for print media in the literary world. You've just got to make sure you market it correctly I guess....

That's not to say, again, that I'm blind to that competition which exists between the shop and the online store though. That's why I'm researching the business venture first...

Peterdalkey

There has been a big resurgance in the use of Public Libraries with free internet access, wifi, free newspapers and journals on hand plus a heated reading space!! and books by the ton to borrow for next to nothing! They now also lend ebooks. I would not open near one!!
Our Dalkey Book Exchange closed just before the newly refurbished Dalkey Public Library reopened!! I also see busy traffic in and out of the library in Cabinteely.

As other posters have pointed out, you could succeed if you make it a "destination" that also sells books!! You point out in one of your posts that there are already two existing bookshops in your town, does the town really need three?

Peterdalkey

you are more than welcome to PM me, our last posts crossed in the ether!

Qualitymark

Another thing you might do: talk to local schools about starting up a schoolbook rental scheme, run through your bookshop. (We always rented our schoolbooks each year in my schools; parents paid a deposit and a rent amount on each book, and if the book wasn't in good enough condition to put back out for rent the next year, they forfeited the deposit.)

Reader1937

Plenty of exp. in assisting startups.
The next sentence is important for any person looking at a new business.
Business is taking more money from people than you give out to people on a timely basis.
If you see money as the most important word in that sentence do not go into business. There is nothing without people. The timely basis bit is due to the fact that 60% of startups that fail in the first five years do so due to cash flow difficulties. They may have the money to pay, just not at the time it falls due.
Attracting people? Bookshops are atmosphere and look. This attracts people. Once inside you have to cater for the market. Know it and cater for it - your personal choices are worthless and the customer generally couldn't care less. Sell what sells. Pick a look and stick with it if it works, don't leave it patchy. I have no doubt the shop will have helpful staff.
Easons posted losses of 5 million last year - half of their losses from the year before and are becoming a book supermarket with only a popular skim from the top of each genre. You may have more competition from charity shops.
Stocks. Hope you don't mind me going imperial. Roughly 1" per bookspine. 1' per shelf height on average. Doesn't matter how high the ceiling is in the shop - go as high as people can reach - a 6' shelving unit has its last shelf base at 5'. Generally timber shelves can not have a span of over 3' unsupported before it starts to bend. So your units will be about 3' wide.
So a wall 30' long will have 10 units of 6 shelves each. 60 shelves at 36" (one per book) is close on 1000 books. Do not forget backup stock for popular reads. Do not understock shelves as NOONE likes going into a shop that looks like its going out of business. Give maybe 10% of your space to presentation and advertising. Finding a good carpenter may work better for you in the long run than using prefab shelves. If you do go with the carpenter - solid timber as a touch of class. People pay high prices in posh places. Not saying it is to be posh, but anything or anyone that has respect for itself gets more respect from others.
A comfortable chair or two with tea or coffee for those who have just purchased a book may work well.
If you want to combine the shop with an online business try something like Volusion.com - cheap to do and never a bad idea to have more than one string on the bow. SEO would be slow to start, but, again, way cheaper than ABE, etc. and you have a site where others are not competing with you.
Do a cash flow projection without too much hope. Books are cheap and you need to sell an awful lot of them to make any living.
Hope this helps, and good luck - it could work.
Anyway, just my current thoughts on it.

sandin

WH Smith posted record results yesterday - the bookshop aint dead yet!

Michael_Dare

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know digitial distribution of print media is a constantly evolving beast, but I don't have the same fear for books as I do for movies, TV shows, etc.

In visual media, there's always been a constant evolution in distrubtion techniques; in my lifetime alone, I've seen video tapes change into DVDs, change into blue rays, change into online streaming. Likewise, music has gone from tapes to CDs to minidisc players to ipods.... but books are books. Yeah, some people will turn to eReaders, but I do think that there's always going to be a market for print media in the literary world. You've just got to make sure you market it correctly I guess....

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?

The reason I ask is because with new technologies, it's very easy to misunderstand them if you haven't jumped in and experienced them directly. I've made this very mistake myself. The best advice I could give you would be to spend a couple of hundred euro on a kindle, use it for all your reading for two weeks, and see if you still feel the same about the future of printed books.

This one step could save you a fortune.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

WH Smith posted record results yesterday - the bookshop aint dead yet!

There is a huge difference between a well-established chain that also sells eBooks and an independent start-up bookshop that won't be providing eBooks.

OP, I think you would be nuts to go down this road if you aren't going to provide eBooks. Public libraries around the country provide eBooks and as another poster mentioned, libraries have experienced a resurgance in popularity due to the recession.

As someone who works in the library service and has some knowledge of the publishing industry, I would urge you to think long and hard about this.

padocon

Peterdalkey wrote: »

There has been a big resurgance in the use of Public Libraries with free internet access, wifi, free newspapers and journals on hand plus a heated reading space!! and books by the ton to borrow for next to nothing! They now also lend ebooks. I would not open near one!!
Our Dalkey Book Exchange closed just before the newly refurbished Dalkey Public Library reopened!! I also see busy traffic in and out of the library in Cabinteely.

I am sorry I can't be of much help but I'd like to add that the schools in the locality are not using books for their first years, they are using ipads. I feel that really says it all. In 6/7 years time the whole family will have e-readers and tablets, even mom and dad to help the children with their homework. I really think the product is key and if you don't have a good product you have nothing and I think hard cover books are slowly being less used. That said a new Easons opened in my local town so that says something. Good luck with this any how

Michael_Dare

padocon wrote: »

In 6/7 years time the whole family will have e-readers and tablets, even mom and dad to help the children with their homework.

More like 3 years. Google's Nexus 7 tablet was recently released to rave reviews. It's less than half the price of an iPad. Amazon are due to announce their new tablets next week, and they'll probably be a vast improvement on the Fire, and that hasn't even been out a year yet.

Next year will be a huge year for tablets, as they become non-luxury items, and once that happens, everyone and their grandmother will have one. With eBooks already outselling paperbacks on Amazon in the UK and the US, 3 years from now the figures could be 80/20 in their favour.

What then for book shops?

sandin

Glendambo wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a well-established chain that also sells eBooks and an independent start-up bookshop that won't be providing eBooks.

.

It wasn't ebooks they gave them their profit, it was re-organising many of their stores and providing a customer experience.

Same with Easons and their new look - far more enjoyable to browse in.

A bookshop on its own, just selling books and doing nothing else, won't survive, but a bookshop with added features so that you are not entirely reliant on book sales and in the right location will thrive especially with rents on the floor at present.

padocon

Michael_Dare wrote: »

More like 3 years.

My reasoning for 6 years was that that is how long it will take for all students to have ipads instead of books, because most schools roll them out for first years only. So by the time they move up into the system.

And you could be right, the sooner there is serious competition to challenge the ipad, the better.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

It wasn't ebooks they gave them their profit, it was re-organising many of their stores and providing a customer experience.

Thats an extrememly simplistic view tbh. You can't discount the fact that they provide eBooks, have large areas of the shops devoted to stationery, confectionery, magazines and provide online services. The fact that they are located in places like airports and train stations in the UK plays a huge factor also.

From their own website:

We are one of the UK's leading retail groups, with over 550 High Street stores and 440 Travel outlets at airports, train stations, hospitals and motorway service areas.

sandin wrote: »

A bookshop on its own, just selling books and doing nothing else, won't survive, but a bookshop with added features so that you are not entirely reliant on book sales and in the right location will thrive especially with rents on the floor at present.

Having a coffee dock and some comfy chairs in an independent bookshop is not in any way comparable to WH Smith or Easons and it's really naive to link the two tbh.

redandwhite

Worked in an independent bookstore. Very hard to do well unless you specialise.

Qualitymark

I'd take a drive or a hitch or a cycle or a bus around the country and talk to people running good small bookshops - like the award-winning one in Sligo town, and Sheelagh na Gig in Cloughjordan and - well, look up who was shortlisted for the Independent Bookshop Award (if that's what it's called) last year.

mikom

Will this bookshop also stock Betamax cassettes?

sandin

Glendambo wrote: »

Thats an extrememly simplistic view tbh. You can't discount the fact that they provide eBooks, have large areas of the shops devoted to stationery, confectionery, magazines and provide online services. The fact that they are located in places like airports and train stations in the UK plays a huge factor also.

From their own website:







Having a coffee dock and some comfy chairs in an independent bookshop is not in any way comparable to WH Smith or Easons and it's really naive to link the two tbh.

FFS - read the posts and understand business comparisons.

Wh Smith have made a profit by not having all their eggs in one basket. they are no longer just a bookshop / magazine shop. they diversified and they have improved the custoemr experience leading to higher sales and higher profits.

IN THE SAME WAY, a bookshop here can do well if it diversifies and does not totally depends on books to be the sole earner. It can diversify in a totally different way to wh smith to suit his local market. But the trick is to diversify and have soemthing the internet cannot give the customer - what that is will be down to understanding yiour own local market.

That's how you link the 2. Borders went under as did waterstones because the only thing they sold was books.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

FFS - read the posts and understand business comparisons.

Charming. Really charming. :rolleyes:

I understand business comparisons quite well thanks, I also understand where booksellers are at currently and where the market is going. I also understand that you really don't have much of in insight into this area at all and as such I hope the OP ignores your ridiculous "advice".

Michael_Dare

Glendambo wrote: »

I also understand ... where the market is going

You must have a crystal ball then, because nobody knows this. Companies like Amazon think they know, and many other companies are making guesses, but nobody really knows where the book market will be in 5 years, much less 10 or 20.

Balmed Out

I read a fair bit and hated the idea of ebooks. Couldnt understand how someone could get used to using them. However my wife bought me one for a birthday which I didnt use for 6 months. Going on holiday I decided to give it a go and save having a bag half filled with books. Ive not looked back since and may never by a physical book again. Be careful.

Peterdalkey

OP, reading through the posts again, I am not really sure you got the information you were looking for at the outset. However, I do think you did get valuable feedback which will be useful to you in assessing the opportunity. If you discount the most positive and the most negative, the sense I get is that most people fear for your chances of success.

Clearly you can never hope to compete with the big mixed product chains, who benefit from their massive purchasing power and rebates. They also benefit from many exclusive “captive” sales locations like hospitals, airports, railway station shops and the like.

The library competition is also a factor and the market for eBooks is flooded with rip off sites from China where you can buy every book ( circa 240 titles) that has appeared in the New York Times best sellers list for the past three years for Euro40, or all Jo Nesbo eBooks for under Euro 20, for example. Kindle have also dropped the price of their reader to just Stg£ 89.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

The exchange in Dalkey, a shop with a big customer base, and 20 years+ of operating, closing down should be the only thing you need to know to scrap the idea, as idyllic as it might be.

WH Smith are doing ok because they are in every airport in the UK dominating the book sales, and also the kiosk service in airports which is quite lucrative when you are selling a bottle of water for twice the standard rate
If your offering a cafe service, then you have a cafe cost in your startup which is not cheap. You are in effect starting two businesses with two sets of costs, staff and skillsets in a country where consumption has declined massively in the last few years. Both bookshops and cafes are declining so combining the two is a recipe for disaster. The generation of up and comers now do everything online. They even have parties online ffs, sitting in their rooms with beers on their laptops on skype video chat!! Thats the way the world is going....
How much margin is available on a book these days? I buy everything in airports because I travel a lot, and usually get 2 for 1 deals on the books I buy.
Without big purchasing power you wont be able to offer that, yet you will have to have not only have the latest books, but a big selection of best sellers, second hand books and so on to stay popular.

In general I would say its a bad idea to start a business in an industry on a downward curve, you are asking for trouble even if you are a genius of a businessman. You should consider looking at things in an upward trend to give yourself a chance from the start.
Not what you want to hear, but possibly what you need to hear on this one...

Reader1937

Remember every business is a gamble, but those who hedge their bets tend to make the most money. If you have a market, find a way of selling to it that makes money. Make money. If you don't - find a market. Most likely in this case you will have close to a perfect marketplace - so do what others do, but do the important things better, not perfect, but better.
If you wish to just speculate based on desire, declare a hobby value to the venture and invest only that. Either way, go in with your eyes open.
There was a comment previously - on visiting good bookshops directly and running a constructed interview which may answer your questions in a better way.
Regardless of your choice, I wish you the very best of luck.

Lord TSC

Thanks for the feedback all. I am taking it all into consideration.

Michael_Dare wrote: »

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?

I have an iPad, but as previously started, I don't like ebooks. I much prefer the physical copies, but then I am also not naive enough to think that everyone is like that. Kindles and the likes are not for me.

padocon wrote: »

I am sorry I can't be of much help but I'd like to add that the schools in the locality are not using books for their first years, they are using ipads. I feel that really says it all.

Not taking a personal shot here, but I'd imagine you must come from a well off area if kids are being given ipads over books. I was working in a school last year in the locality and when that idea was brought up, it was laughed out the building due to the costs

That's not to say it's not a valid point but I don't think it's fair to do a blanket statement like "All kids will use ipads in school" since that's simply not an option for a lot of parents. Still, that's a different debate.

Peterdalkey wrote: »

OP, reading through the posts again, I am not really sure you got the information you were looking for at the outset. However, I do think you did get valuable feedback which will be useful to you in assessing the opportunity. If you discount the most positive and the most negative, the sense I get is that most people fear for your chances of success.

Yeah.

I'm grateful for people who decided to post and give me their feedback, and it has all been taken on board. I'm reading and re-reading every post. But Peter is right really; what I am still looking for is more intrinsic details about opening a book store, particularly people's experiences with start up costs.

Sadly, I'm not reading anything I don't already know. I know it's one of those industries which is in danger. But the thing I wanted to avoid was "I use kindles, ergo bookshops are redundant" and "I hate kindles, long live the bookshop". Both those comments are personal opinions and vary from person to person. Comments on the success of WH Smiths and the downfall of independent shops, actual examples of the rises and falls, are the most helpful. I just wish I could find someone who said "When i started up my shop, it cost me X amount to stock it up, there were Y fees for..." and so forth.

Again, not saying I'm ungrateful for any comments posted. I appreciate everyone's input. I just wish I could find the details as opposed to personal opinions...

"I love bookshops" is not a good reason to open a bookshop, I know. It's simply the basis of my research into what it takes to open one, and that question ("What does it take to open a bookshop?") is the one I'd love answers to.

Certainly going to try and make contact with some other Indy bookstores though. Really good suggestion, so thanks

CamillaRhodes

Just a quick comment as a consumer, rather than a business owner:

Agree wholeheartedly with the other posters that you have to offer more than just books: comfy couches for reading, coffee & tea, maybe even wine.

(I heard - possibly untrue, just rumour - that the guy who ran the Exchange in Dalkey had applied for a wine licence, with a view to turning it into a nice niche place to go for wine and read a book; there are plenty of cafes in Dalkey already. When he got turned down for his wine licence by the council (for reasons I can't understand) he decided feck it, he would close.)

Anyway... a little independent bookstore I visited in the US had a little flashcard with a 50 word review of the book on the shelf above it literally every couple of inches along every single shelf. This meant, as someone coming in to browse and explore new books, you didn't just judge the books by their cover. The reviews didn't have to be great detail, but just something about pacing, style, comparison to other authors, etc. It will require you (or your friends or whoever) to do a lot of reading, but this may be part of the fun of running your shop, and costs you nothing.

When I go to Amazon to look for a book, I always check the reader reviews to gauge whether i'm likely to enjoy it or not (though of course there are no guarantees of quality, it's a helpful starting point). This is something most of the big bookstores don't currently offer, which puts me off them and drives me back online.

Finally, Book Clubs. Book Clubs are huge at the moment, as people look for non-pub / cheaper evenings out. Run a book club from your store, where everyone meets in the store after hours; they buy the book every fortnight/month from you at a discounted rate, they buy a glass of wine or coffee from you... Most Book Clubs I know at the moment (that are proper structured evenings) are booked to capacity. Worth a pop anyway, will cost you nothing other than your usual operational costs.

sandin

May I suggest that you talk to Easons and see if their franchise program is suitable for you. Even if its not, it will give you an idea to costs and they won't mind giving all the info as even if you don't go franchise you would be using them as a supplier.


Ballpark, I would put 30k - 40k aside for stock, 20k for fit-out assuming basic fitout is already there and 10k for all the other bits and pieces.

On startup, you may be able to negotiate 50% of initial order on credit.

Reader1937

I agree with Sandin on bulking figures for a budget (was ever a budget bang on?), but also include rolling costs such as rates, insurance, (planning permit for a sign or two?), wages, IT, an accounts package (maybe have a look at sage one online), stationary and sundries. In a startup the more time you invest, the less money is required. These costs will crop up long before a return is seen in the business. The first return you do see is to be set aside for when these costs arise again. I can not say it loud enough - cash flow. Bankroll the business as best you can to begin with and it has a far better chance of getting by or taking off. An example would be a business I helped this year open a branch in Dublin - during a chat over renting the desired building it occurred to me that cash flow would be just as much an issue for the landlord as the new branch. I proposed paying the first year up front, but the second in monthly. Thousands was knocked off the price. Try every twist and turn you can.
Perhaps read Philip Murrays "Adventures of a book collector" if you want a good description of a good shop owner.
Give yourself time to think things through - all the way through. Do not at any stage rush if you can help it.

padocon

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Not taking a personal shot here, but I'd imagine you must come from a well off area if kids are being given ipads over books. I was working in a school last year in the locality and when that idea was brought up, it was laughed out the building due to the costs

Nope the 2 schools that are doing it are both public schools and the areas are by no means well off. They are average areas. The credit unions are giving loans to those that need them. I know there is the initial cost but the ebooks will certainly be cheaper than regular paper books.

That's not to say it's not a valid point but I don't think it's fair to do a blanket statement like "All kids will use ipads in school" since that's simply not an option for a lot of parents. Still, that's a different debate.

Well they will, eventually.

sandin

padocon wrote: »

Nope the 2 schools that are doing it are both public schools and the areas are by no means well off. They are average areas. The credit unions are giving loans to those that need them. I know there is the initial cost but the ebooks will certainly be cheaper than regular paper books.




Well they will, eventually.

I'd agree that school books will go electronic for most school kids fairly rapidly - 6 years is probably the time frame. Initial costs are already not much more than a set of new school books.

However I'd never touch schoolboooks anyway if I were a bookshop - 20% margin, a lot of pain and a huge stock and then also competing against all the online stores?

Doesn't add up unless you have already built the market up over the years.

lazeedaisy

Michael_Dare wrote: »

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?The best advice I could give you would be to spend a couple of hundred euro on a kindle,

jeez last time i looked you could get one for a hundred! where are you shopping? Sure Tesco sell them for 110 euro.

We all own a kindle at home, but as has been mentioned here bookshops are full of people - i for one like to browse but never buy - and there are lots like me,

That said - they opened a new easons in carlow and the manager said he got lots of advice not to open! he said 50 shades is dong really well,

theres another way

Get in contact with The Gutter Bookshop on Twitter - they are really progressive and a terrific little bookshop in Temple bar. I don't know them personally but I'm constantly impressed by their tweets and have been in the store a good few times! They will probably be able to give you the figures and experience you need!

Also check out Accents coffee shop in Dublin City for another great example of a small shop that is doing things differently. Though their main business is in coffee in an area with lots of coffee shops, they also have a 'bring a book, take a book' scheme, non alcoholic comedy nights, regularly support local campaigns like 'Hello Dublin' etc...

Best of luck with your plans, what is deemed risky is entirely a matter of perception. Some people flush their money down the drain playing the lotto all their lives, others invest in shares that are eaten into over time by inflation and still others invest it in bricks and mortar that become a noose around their necks. If you try and succeed - you will have your dream job, if you try and fail - you will have a life changing experience, have met amazing people and can use that experience to move you forward. To me the bigger risk is not trying, but then again I am the eternal optimist

geeky

Without going down the 'don't do it' route, I'd chime in with the people advising you to develop other revenue streams - book readings, talks or other events, tea/coffee, products to improve the reading experience, even bloody one-act plays or unplugged live music. The small bookshops that survive are the ones that do this.

It's only by doing this stuff, which the big chains, pop-up discounters, Tesco and Ebooks really can't, that you can carve out a niche.

Mind if I ask what you did before? Maybe there's some overlap you could use to gain an edge?

Tapping girl

I think you should go for it. The Gutter Bookshop in Temple Bar would be worth a look and maybe the owner could give you some advice. He was the bookseller at the Dublin Literary Festival events which just shows that small can be beautiful. Also, Rathgar bookshop is worth a look. They now do coffees and plants!

Cork24

With E-books, Amazon Kindles making the way i don't know are you thinking of a dying business

Endlessly Manipulable

Loads of bookshops in Galway, was amazed at how busy they were when I was down the other weekend - I'd go down and check out how they do it, maybe look to speak to some managers/owners if you have the gumption :-)

The Guvnor

If you are lucky a famous american actress may just pop in one day!

On a serious note - if you were to specialise in a certain area that would be a good thing and then work on the online side of things even having an account with Amazon where you get a % without actually shipping the goods out.

Best of luck with the whole thing!

padocon

The Guvnor wrote: »

If you are lucky a famous american actress may just pop in one day!

On a serious note - if you were to specialise in a certain area that would be a good thing and then work on the online side of things even having an account with Amazon where you get a % without actually shipping the goods out.

Best of luck with the whole thing!

I presume you are talking about books that are self published because Amazon themselves buy the books in most cases. TBH it's pointless unless the book is not all ready on there (most are) and if its not, it is more than lightly self published. Good idea for self published books though.

RATM

I'm not a nay-sayer but I would agree with much of the sentiment on this thread regarding the future of printed books- it doesn't look healthy. Over on the bargain alerts forum there is a quality tablet selling for €55 and no doubt they will get down as low as €30 when other Chinese manufacturers enter the mix. No-one in 1995 would ever have thought that one day you could buy at microwave for €25 but you can. The prices of tablets are going the same way even quicker.

Added to that are all the kids will be using them as they become the cost of 3/4 weeks saved pocket money. Soon enough 95% of kids will have grown up with tablets and won't know a time when we didn't have them- just like an 18 year old today can't remember a time we didn't have mobile phones.

The post above mentions self publishing and this is where there might be a gap in the market. Every avid book fan is also a potential author and of this group a certain percentage will actually one day write a book, even if it is just to distribute to friends and family and local libraries . If you combined a bookstore with a self-publishing service (requiring an investment in paperback printing technology) then you could offer a service that would be unique (as far as I know) in Ireland- a bricks and mortar store that sells books by the major authors but also one where self published titles are for sale under the same roof.

So amongst self publishers you'd have two markets- those who do it to distribute to family and friends and those who are serious about becoming a full time author. For those who do it for family and friends you would probably have a print run in the order of 100-200 copies and could make a nice margin. For those who are more serious well their book is on the shelves and the market will decide.

For the second grouping what you'd essentially be hoping for is to catch the next big author. It could take 20 years to happen or it may not happen at all. Luckily Ireland is a country with a rich literary tradition so the odds of success are increased. Fifty Shades of Grey was initially self published. What you would need is a water tight legal contract with the author for royalties which would give you exclusivity and royalties.

Of course you don't or probably never will have the marketing prowess of the major publishers so any author would be mad to give you exclusivity on a permanent basis as if the book is a genuine hit in Ireland then chances are it would also be a hit in other english speaking countries where the thing holding the author back is distrbution channells, access to critics, etc. So the contract should have a sliding scale- the bigger the sales the less the royalty % you get- something that is equitable to both parties.

Even if you operate for 20 years and never find the next biggest selling author I still think there is a nice little niche for doing the printing for self publishers. There are of course internet based services doing this but you would have a USP of offering it for sale in a bricks and mortar shop which is a big step up for any author and one that would typically need the support of a major publisher. You'd essentially be giving budding authors a test market to see if their writing is well received.

But even the family and friends market could be well worth your while- printing and selling 200 odd books per author is not to be sniffed at. There is also the corporate market - my own brother in law is a partner in one of the Big Four and is currently writing a book for the layman on taxation - he is doing this to position himself as an expert on taxation with the idea being that it will bring in more business for his firm and also get his name known in the industry even more than it is now. He'll likely self publish it to being with. University lecturers would be another grouping- find out to the likes of Trinity / UCD have their own publishing capabilities- if not this is where you could come in. Also compliations of short stories by a number of Irish authors could be another possibility.

Anyway this is just an idea of a way to add value to your bookstore - I have zero expertise in this field. But I do know that in order to survive as a bricks and mortar book store you are going to have to offer something unique that nobody else is doing. I read this article and feel it would be helpful as there are a lot of links on self publishing websites, methods, etc.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10119891-82/self-publishing-a-book-25-things-you-need-to-know/

The Guvnor

padocon wrote: »

I presume you are talking about books that are self published because Amazon themselves buy the books in most cases. TBH it's pointless unless the book is not all ready on there (most are) and if its not, it is more than lightly self published. Good idea for self published books though.

No - what I meant was he could sell in his bookstore and then have an account with amazon where his website links to specific books on amazon and iirc the affiliate can earn upto 30% of the price and amazon will do the p&p etc.

There is iirc a better % for an exact link rather than one just to the amazon front page etc.