the exorcist?

derry dirtfisher

i was metal detecting along the banks of the river foyle in derry. i was a couple of feet above high tide line, when i got a couple of signals, and when i dug, i retrieved these little bottles with messages in them. when i took them home all four bottles contained similar messages. looks like an exorcism or something...i also got 13 musket balls lol

krd

Do you think it was wise...............to open the bottles?

derry dirtfisher

sure i didnt know what was in them.
im not very superstitious but i must admit to feeling a bit uneasy when i seen what they were

Dave!

Might be worth approaching a museum about them or something!

Interesting!

derry dirtfisher

you think so?
ill contact the museum service in derry to see what they say

Dave!

Dunno, they look old right? If you found them near some musket balls then I guess they're old enough

NegativeCreep

I would absolutely die if I was to find something like that. That is freaky! :eek:

derry dirtfisher

Dave! wrote: »

Dunno, they look old right? If you found them near some musket balls then I guess they're old enough

they were in glass bottles, and had bits of cork stuff in the top to keep out moisture.
the only identifiable bottle was a dettol on with markings for teaspoons on one side and tablespoons on the other.
i guess they were buried around the 1960's
the musket balls would have been around from the time of the siege of derry in 1689. its known that quite a few skirmishes took place around the area where i dug the bottles up

Urizen

And no genies at all, unlucky :P

Seriously though, that's weird. Like 60's ultra-Christian geocaching...

krd

derry dirtfisher wrote: »

sure i didnt know what was in them.

The plot of a thousand horror films. Man unearths strange looking containers - then innocently uncorks them. ......If they were buried, they must've been buried for a reason.

im not very superstitious but i must admit to feeling a bit uneasy when i seen what they were

Yes...the uneasy feeling.......that also happens in horror films too. Just at the point the innocent person who has unearthed and uncorked the strange bottles, gets the uneasy feeling that maybe they shouldn't have done that.

I suppose, you could shove the messages back in the bottles and rebury them....but I've never seen it working in any horror film I've ever seen.

krd

Dave! wrote: »

Dunno, they look old right? If you found them near some musket balls then I guess they're old enough

Those bottles are not as old as the musket balls. They're 20th century baby liquor bottles. The visible glass print on the side of the bottle, visible in the second picture is not something that was been done by hand.

derry dirtfisher

i had to break a couple of the bottles to get the messages out anyway so thats out the window lol...looks like im doomed

Jimmy Garlic

I am not superstitious or anything but if I was you I would put those back where I found them.

Loughc

derry dirtfisher wrote: »

i had to break a couple of the bottles to get the messages out anyway so thats out the window lol...looks like im doomed

:eek:

Creepy stuff finding something like that buried. Amazed just how calm you are after finding them, haha. I'd be really creeped out if that was me. Best of luck hope you survive!

elaney

I remember my father saying that a kind of religious cleansing service took place
right beside my house in the 60s. The priest came out and cleansed the place
because of activity which used to happen late at night. All the neighbours
attended including my father and when the priest finished he burried some prayers in bottles with other religious items under a tree. We were always warned not to try to dig near that tree. Could be the same thing maybe.

kylith

Wow, what a fantastic bit of social history! People used to bury all kinds of things; from 'curses' to prayers as they believed it helped their efficacy

vince mc

betcha if you looked around you would find more in the area you were in.

Myrddin

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am not superstitious or anything but if I was you I would put those back where I found them.

Wouldn't that be....a superstitious thing to do

kryogen

Wow! Something genuinely interesting here, would love to know the back story to these bottles. If you find anything else let us know k

MrMojoRisin

Ah, people shouldn't be scaremongering the OP, by saying he might have disrupted something that should have been left alone, etc.

Sure I've often found old things buried in places - I once found a couple of cats' skulls and a makeshift cross (two twigs bound together using twine) and took them home, before later throwing them into the wheelie bin - and nothing strange happened afterwards.

They're just objects. They're only as meaningful as you think they are.

Footy101

Wow. Cool thread. Very random but interesting to hear the stories about the area.

kevin james murray

is that in latin the writing

emeraldstar

kevin james murray wrote: »

is that in latin the writing

Whut?

derry dirtfisher

kevin james murray wrote: »

is that in latin the writing

no, its in english

the small ones say this:
"We'll ever betray thee Satan Hosts of Hades ever by Father Son HOLY SPIRIT Yes by the DIVINE POWER of our God Amen"

and the bigger one this:
"We'll ever betray thee Satan Hosts of Hades ever by other plan of plans DIVINE Yes by Father Son HOLY SPIRIT Yes by the DIVINE POWER of our God Amen" (Repeated X3)

derry dirtfisher

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

They're just objects. They're only as meaningful as you think they are.

yeah, whoever buried them may have got some sort of placebo effect.

krd

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I once found a couple of cats' skulls and a makeshift cross (two twigs bound together using twine) and took them home, before later throwing them into the wheelie bin - and nothing strange happened afterwards.

When I was a kid I would collect cats' skulls and then when I had enough, create a Satan looking alter, with twigs and twine, out somewhere where people might go for a walk. For fun.

But people would wreck them........it wasn't, you was it?

MrMojoRisin

krd wrote: »

When I was a kid I would collect cats' skulls and then when I had enough, create a Satan looking alter, with twigs and twine, out somewhere where people might go for a walk. For fun.

But people would wreck them........it wasn't, you was it?

Ha, ha, I don't know. Did you grow up in Cork?

Thornography

Sorry, these are clearly written in ballpoint pen (Absolutely no smudges, indicating that no other type of pen was used. It also looks stenceled. and the way the ink runs is spread as a posed to blotchy.) The first patent was given in 1988. And, knowing Ireland, was'nt sold until the early 1990's.

They look interesting, But probably just ye ould Irish people taking the utter piss. or A type of millennium burial, not to be found for hundreds of years to freak out people who stumbled upon them? educated guess.

derry dirtfisher

were you sober when you wrote that crap thornography ?
biros have neen available since the 1930's

ps, an educated person would have spelt stenciled properly, so yours was obviously a badly educated guess

gozunda

Interesting
There is a type of witchcraft curse known as "Witch Bottles"
I believe this involved making a spell against an individual and casting the bottle with symbols / objects/ curse in a place where it cannot be retrieved or would have a baleful influence on the person against whom it is directed.

krd

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Ha, ha, I don't know. Did you grow up in Cork?

No, I'm not from Cork.

But I knew other people who would do this kind of thing. I knew a sculpture who would planet gnomes and in fairies in woodland. Also a farmer who constructed a little fairy alter in a clump of trees on his land. It gets people talking.

Back - maybe as far back as the 80s - there was a little stir over strange stuff found up in the Wicklow mountains. Strange photographs pinned to trees and things. It turned out to be a artist - doing a kind of wild cat installation.

aoife1991

This is a cool thread, I would guess that the bottles date sometime after '62 based on the prayers (if that's what they are) being in English. The Vatican Two came in around then and the transition of Latin to English prayers began.

To whoever was posting that the biro hadn't ran, if they were in cork sealed bottles, they wouldn't run at all. Sure, they've found some old bottles of wine that were perfect after sitting around for a few hundred years that were sealed by cork!

Having consulted my devoutly Catholic grandmother, I'm told that similar prayer bottles were a common enough occurrence in the '40s and '50s. She thinks this might be prayers for someone that had mental health issues, rather than an exorcism. To my knowledge, Catholic exorcisms are still carried out in Latin. Once again, great thread.

derry dirtfisher

i think youre correct aoife1991.
the location they were found would indeed suggest that there could very well be a mental health connection
thanks for that

Its Behind You!

This reminds me of an old Catholic tradition/superstition/belief that if you were tryin to buy a house, you would be looked upon favourably by a higher power if you buried a "miraculous" medal" in the garden of the house of your dreams.

I found 2 in the garden of a house I used to live in, neither of which I buried.

I was also reading an item of catholic doctrine recently regarding the importance of the picture of the "Sacred Heart", of which every devout catholic home should have one...etc

It describes how the entire family should take the picture out frequently, gather round it and pray, saying a prescribed number of the decades of the rosary AND THEN "favours" would be bestowed upon the family.

I'd say these bottles are from that sort of RC indoctrination. Man it would make a great movie...

Its Behind You!

Thornography wrote: »

Sorry, these are clearly written in ballpoint pen (Absolutely no smudges, indicating that no other type of pen was used. It also looks stenceled. and the way the ink runs is spread as a posed to blotchy.) The first patent was given in 1988. And, knowing Ireland, was'nt sold until the early 1990's.

They look interesting, But probably just ye ould Irish people taking the utter piss. or A type of millennium burial, not to be found for hundreds of years to freak out people who stumbled upon them? educated guess.

Thornography... Are u having a laugh? (1888 patented).

I must dig out an advertismement for the "new" ball point pen in the Catholic Directory from 1948.

They were flogging this revolutionary new writing pen at 30 shillings a pop or 45 shillings for one in a silver plated pen holder. Kerching!

I'd say this is throwback to the tradition of the "Witch Bottle"...

From Wiki:

"The witch bottle is a very old spell device. Its purpose is to draw in and trap harmful intentions directed at its owner. Folk magic contends that the witch bottle protects against evil spirits and magical attack, and counteracts spells cast by witches.

A traditional witch bottle is a small flask, about 3 inches high, created from blue or green glass. Larger and rounder witch bottles, up to 9 inches high, were known as Greybeards and employed so-called Bartmann or Bellarmine jugs. Bellarmines were named after a particularly fearsome Catholic Inquisitor, Robert Bellarmine, who persecuted Protestants and was instrumental in the burning of Giordano Bruno . Greybeards and Bellarmines were not made of glass, but of brown or gray stoneware that was glazed with salt and embossed with severe bearded faces designed to scare off evil.

A witch, cunning man or woman, would prepare the witch's bottle. Historically, the witch's bottle contained the victim's (the person who believed they had a spell put on them, for example) urine, hair or nail clippings, or red thread from sprite traps. In recent years, the witch's bottle has taken on a nicer tone, filled with rosemary, needles and pins, and red wine. Historically and currently, the bottle is then buried at the farthest corner of the property, beneath the house hearth, or placed in an inconspicuous spot in the house. It is believed that after being buried, the bottle captures evil which is impaled on the pins and needles, drowned by the wine, and sent away by the rosemary."

MrMojoRisin

Its Behind You! wrote: »

This reminds me of an old Catholic tradition/superstition/belief that if you were tryin to buy a house, you would be looked upon favourably by a higher power if you buried a "miraculous" medal" in the garden of the house of your dreams.

I found 2 in the garden of a house I used to live in, neither of which I buried.

There seems to be a lot of superstition attached to those miraculous medals. A guy I knew before gave me a couple of those, telling me that they'd bring me good fortune (I rolled my eyes at this).

A short while later, I gave them to a woman who I knew to be very religious. She balked and said, "You'll be giving your luck away!" I shrugged and insisted she take them, but it took a bit of coaxing to get her to accept them.

I've also heard about people getting a St. Benedict medal blessed by a priest to protect themselves from, or ward off, Satan.

I don't understand the superstition attached to these little pieces of religious paraphernalia at all.

Its Behind You!

Cheers Mr MojoRising.

Indeed, having been brought up in that faith, its always been a bit of a headscratcher for me.

There's lots of practices associated with Catholicism ,which I would put down to superstition...like Holy Water, Stigmata, and the likes, this is probably a separate thread? (People who are renowned for having the "Cure" for various ills, seems to be a particularly Irish catholic thing too).

I was of the understanding that "superstition" was a sin in the RC Church, mind you so was eating meat on a Friday up until the 60's (?) but I digress..:D

But from the original photos, its clear that religious belief was involved in the burying of the bottles...

Jadestar

The first thread I have read on boards.ie, I hope the rest are as good!

BillyMitchel

Between this thread and the devils passage one and the dogs going crazy im freaked the fock out! Great finds and great stories but I'm going back to after hours!

*hides under blanket*

gozunda

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Between this thread and the devils passage one and the dogs going crazy im freaked the fock out! Great finds and great stories but I'm going back to after hours!

*hides under blanket*

Links please!

BillyMitchel

gozunda wrote: »

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Between this thread and the devils passage one and the dogs going crazy im freaked the fock out! Great finds and great stories but I'm going back to after hours!

*hides under blanket*

Links please!

Devils passage link?

gozunda

BillyMitchel wrote: »

gozunda wrote: »

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Between this thread and the devils passage one and the dogs going crazy im freaked the fock out! Great finds and great stories but I'm going back to after hours!

*hides under blanket*

Links please!

Devils passage link?

Links to other threads you mentioned...:-{|

MrMojoRisin

Its Behind You! wrote: »

Cheers Mr MojoRising.

Indeed, having been brought up in that faith, its always been a bit of a headscratcher for me.

Yeah, I was brought up as a Catholic as well (attended schools where there was a strong emphasis on religion and the associated ceremonies, and was hauled to mass every weekend), but I still didn't adopt any of the staunch beliefs and superstitions. I considered them but, personally, I never bothered to integrate any of it into my daily life. One thing that comes to mind is that I don't bless myself when a hearse drives past me/I drive past a hearse, although I've known quite a few people who have done that.

I do think there is some sensible morality ingrained in facets of it, like being good to people who are good to you, helping people who are genuinely in need, sharing if you have the means, as well as the more no-brainer things like not killing people, or not having it off with your neighbour's wife (lol). Not all of it is b.s., in fairness (because it does make life and your immediate environment/locality better), but I'd draw the line at certain, more obtuse parts of it all (too extensive to get into here).

Its Behind You! wrote: »

There's lots of practices associated with Catholicism ,which I would put down to superstition...like Holy Water, Stigmata, and the likes, this is probably a separate thread? (People who are renowned for having the "Cure" for various ills, seems to be a particularly Irish catholic thing too).

I was of the understanding that "superstition" was a sin in the RC Church, mind you so was eating meat on a Friday up until the 60's (?) but I digress..:D

Yeah, it's very ambiguous of them to openly denounce superstition and then... well, practice very superstitious rituals like the ones you mentioned. Do they not see the hypocrisy in that? :rolleyes: My parents adhere to not eating meat on Good Friday, and Ash Wednesday as well, but not on ordinary Fridays or Wednesdays.

It says here that some unnamed Catholic website has enorsed the Saint Benedict medal as possessing supernatural powers.

Other forms of superstition include the Saint Benedict medal that needs to be buried in the ground to ward off evil spirits. According to one Catholic website, the St. Benedict medal contains supernatural powers to “cure bodily ills and protect against contagious diseases. In time of storms, tempests and other dangers on land and sea it has been found to be a protection. Even domestic animals have been visibly aided by it when infected with disease.”

I wouldn't set much store by that website above though - it just looks like another one of those maniacally devout vehicles for Jesus/God-obsessed weirdos who find 'evil' wherever they choose to find it (usually in otherwise-innocuous things or rituals, and even in songs, ffs).

As regards what you said about people believed to have 'the Cure' - I've been reading a book lately about a Kildare-based fella named Joe Cassidy, who claims he can heal people.

In the book, he talks about it being common in rural Irish communities over the years for there to be a person whom people would summon whenever they, or a family member, had health problems, or when an animal was sick (such as some farmer's cow). Whatever your views are on the whole thing (I'd be on the fence myself), it's still an interesting read.

Article about him: http://www.leinsterleader.ie/lifestyle/entertainment/naas-diviner-joe-cassidy-has-the-healing-touch-1-3765556

I'm really veering OT now, but there's a radio interview with Joe Cassidy here that might be of interest to people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adEfMvR7sc0

Its Behind You! wrote: »

But from the original photos, its clear that religious belief was involved in the burying of the bottles...

Definitely. The sight of all the objects alone pretty much speaks for itself. You couldn't look at those bottles having been buried like that and the prayers procured from them and then sever the religious connection.

Apart from possibly Paganism or Wicca, I'd say it'd be highly unlikely to find bottles having been buried like that in more recent years. Society has become much more modern and mercurial, and religion has really taken a backseat, but that almost goes without saying really.

MrMojoRisin

gozunda wrote: »

Links please!

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Devils passage link?

gozunda wrote: »

Links to other threads you mentioned...:-{|

Thread on 'Devil's Passage Corcaigh': http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055745577

gozunda

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Thread on 'Devil's Passage Corcaigh': http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055745577

Thankies....

Its Behind You!

@Mr Mojo Rising...top post there, thanks.

I've been reading through a lot of the other threads on Paranormal and there seems to be a significant level of bickering, ankle biting or whatever, and condesencion including comments by mods.

Your contributions are on a different level to theirs. I don't mean to stir it up, just stating what I'm reading. Thanks again...

Spread

Its Behind You! wrote: »

This reminds me of an old Catholic tradition/superstition/belief that if you were tryin to buy a house, you would be looked upon favourably by a higher power if you buried a "miraculous" medal" in the garden of the house of your dreams.

I found 2 in the garden of a house I used to live in, neither of which I buried.

I was also reading an item of catholic doctrine recently regarding the importance of the picture of the "Sacred Heart", of which every devout catholic home should have one...etc

It describes how the entire family should take the picture out frequently, gather round it and pray, saying a prescribed number of the decades of the rosary AND THEN "favours" would be bestowed upon the family.

I'd say these bottles are from that sort of RC indoctrination. Man it would make a great movie...

This reminds me of a job I was working on around 1982. The refurbishment was for an Armenian couple at Brent Cross. All new concrete floors .......... but the wife wanted a statue of the (not so) little Child Of Prague inserted into the new floor ....... standing up. We had to put an extra 3 cubic metres of concrete to level the whole ground floor. And please no smartass advising that we should have dug a hole beforehand .......... she only brought out your man after we had started pouring