Second subject

rothai

I'm thinking of doing the Professional Diploma in Post Primary Education in Hibernia. It asks you to choose a second subject. I was thinking of putting down Physics and going back getting a degree while I'm doing the Pdppe (or what ever the abbreviation is). but I'm wondering is physics a good subject to have or should I choose a different one. My first subject will be maths.

rainbowtrout

I'd assume they are talking about a second subject you are qualified in. You can't put down physics if you are not qualified in it.

rothai

Thanks for replying but you HAVE to choose a second subject whether you are qualified to teach it or not.

Now back to my question... Is physics a good second subject to have?

RealJohn

As with all subjects, there are two sides to it.
On the one hand, there aren't as many qualified physics teachers out there as there are biology teachers for example (and slightly fewer than qualified chemistry teachers too as I understand it) but on the other hand, not every school even offers physics and the ones that do tend not to have space for more than one physics teacher on staff (except in the bigger schools I suppose) so that reduces your options as a physics teacher.

Without knowing what other subjects you might be considering, it's hard to say but I'd be inclined to recommend you go with the physics.

dory

I'd also look into how you're going to do a single subject degree in Physics while you're doing the PDE. I don't know about Hibernia but generally the PDE's have a mad workload.

As for it's usefulness. I know a school that had trouble getting a Physics teacher but they needed one who could teach through Irish. Other than that, as has been said above not all school do Physics.

RealJohn

Just to agree with what dory said, I don't think it's a good idea for you to try to upskill to degree level physics (even if you only have a year to do) while you do your PGDE. The workload will affect both courses negatively and cause you unnecessary stress.
With maths as your main subject, in the unlikely event you manage to get a full time job or close to it as a NQT, the maths will cover most of your hours anyway so the second subject isn't as important right now.

doc_17

You could do that JEB diploma and that would qualify you to teach IT, but go with the physics as well.

evolving_doors

not to scaremonger or anything but remember that physics is a minor subject in schools (and typically restricted to male schools (from research ten years ago or so)) so you might have to get by on full hours with maths only. It could be doable as it's a core subject but maybe you could go 'niche' and do a few maths physics modules with OU which would enable you to teach applied maths. Although in saying that a full physics degree might do this also.

I know that if students are doing hons maths and Physics then they find the applied maths paper a doddle, but from the 2 cases I know the teacher takes them for applied maths outside class hours. (dont think they get paid either).

Maybe have a search for threads here on maths as I think there was someone who went through the whole rigmarole of finding out from the teaching council add on modules to do through open university.

Maybe have a read of this too (Link Here).

"The Leaving Cert subjects most likely to be dropped in September are accounting, chemistry, physics, and economics"

Are ya good at anything else.. Irish? History?

Chris68

doc_17 wrote: »

You could do that JEB diploma and that would qualify you to teach IT, but go with the physics as well.

I wouldn't imagine this is good enough to satisfy teaching council requirements. Its not a degree. It also doesn't qualify you to teach ICT, rather just via ICT. It did at one point qualify you to teach ICT but the course content has changed in recent years. Also ICT is also only a leaving cert subject under LCA and so again not too many job opportunities as not all schools do LCA and not all do ICT at specialist level.

Also, ICT is probably not included as a methodologies option in the PDE course. It wasn't when I did the PGDE a few years ago. My degree was in maths and ICT and I completed my teaching practice in maths and ICT but my teaching methodologies classes were in maths and business. I did my PGDE in Trinity. At the time everyone had to study 2 methodologies from those offered but you were only assessed in one of them. Thus my business methodology was never assessed.

rainbowtrout

Chris68 wrote: »

I wouldn't imagine this is good enough to satisfy teaching council requirements. Its not a degree. It also doesn't qualify you to teach ICT, rather just via ICT. It did at one point qualify you to teach ICT but the course content has changed in recent years. Also ICT is also only a leaving cert subject under LCA and so again not too many job opportunities as not all schools do LCA and not all do ICT at specialist level.

Also, ICT is probably not included as a methodologies option in the PDE course. It wasn't when I did the PGDE a few years ago. My degree was in maths and ICT and I completed my teaching practice in maths and ICT but my teaching methodologies classes were in maths and business. I did my PGDE in Trinity. At the time everyone had to study 2 methodologies from those offered but you were only assessed in one of them. Thus my business methodology was never assessed.

Last time I heard anything about JEB it was not a recognised qualification in secondary schools and was only accepted by FAS to teach in their centres.

doc_17

Chris68 wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

You could do that JEB diploma and that would qualify you to teach IT, but go with the physics as well.

I wouldn't imagine this is good enough to satisfy teaching council requirements. Its not a degree. It also doesn't qualify you to teach ICT, rather just via ICT. It did at one point qualify you to teach ICT but the course content has changed in recent years. Also ICT is also only a leaving cert subject under LCA and so again not too many job opportunities as not all schools do LCA and not all do ICT at specialist level.

Also, ICT is probably not included as a methodologies option in the PDE course. It wasn't when I did the PGDE a few years ago. My degree was in maths and ICT and I completed my teaching practice in maths and ICT but my teaching methodologies classes were in maths and business. I did my PGDE in Trinity. At the time everyone had to study 2 methodologies from those offered but you were only assessed in one of them. Thus my business methodology was never assessed.

Your first two sentences are kinda conflicting a wee bit with each other. Either you definitely know it doesn't qualify you or you're not sure? I do know it's not a degree. However it would be easier to do this concurrently with the PDE rather than the physics. But at least it's some wee thing anyway.

But from my experience IT hours can be given to anybody so maybe it's not much of an advantage

Chris68

doc_17 wrote: »

Your first two sentences are kinda conflicting a wee bit with each other. Either you definitely know it doesn't qualify you or you're not sure?

I don't know if it is good enough. I don't think it is. That is my guess. I don't work for the teaching council and don't pretend to understand their thinking on the topic. I think that it is even less likely that the JEB will be good enough now then it may have been prior to the JEB changes. I am aware that the teaching council are in the process of changing their requirements regarding recognition for some subjects (OP take note that Maths and Applied Maths are among those changing BTW). I do know for a fact that I had to jump through hoops to get recognition from the teaching council to be registered to teach ICT. I have a degree in computing and I have the JEB prior to the changes. Neither of these qualifications on their own would satisfy the teaching council. I had to have both!

It may well be the case that "anybody" is given the IT classes - qualified or not - but that doesn't help OP.

doc_17

It's amazing that you have a degree in ICT and The TC won't accept it? Very strange although not surprising that something would seem a little bit off giving that the TC are involved.

I have a degree in Electronics and Conputing and they accepted that for ICT but I had to do a bit more Math before they would recognise me in it.

All I really meant with the JEB is that at least some principals might put some stock in it. And it could be done concurrently with the PDE

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

It's amazing that you have a degree in ICT and The TC won't accept it? Very strange although not surprising that something would seem a little bit off giving that the TC are involved.

I have a degree in Electronics and Conputing and they accepted that for ICT but I had to do a bit more Math before they would recognise me in it.

All I really meant with the JEB is that at least some principals might put some stock in it. And it could be done concurrently with the PDE

In my experience, if you can turn on a computer and use word and internet that is the green light to give you computer classes. :rolleyes:

Most computer classes tend to be given to science/business/maths teachers or anyone that shows any technical capability (see first point).


Teaching Council probably don't really know themselves what their requirements are for ICT as the only examinable component currently is in LCA.

doc_17

Speaking of technology, the LC has a subject called Technology. I'm assuming it's different to DCG. Anyone here have it in their schools? I must have a wee look online or the syllabus. Only noticed it existed when looking at a breakdown of results on Wednesday.

Speaking of teaching word and excel, I usually do the ECDL with the TY group but we have decided to cut back on it this year due to the almost 300% increase in cost. Anyone else doing the same?

seavill

doc_17 wrote: »

Speaking of technology, the LC has a subject called Technology. I'm assuming it's different to DCG. Anyone here have it in their schools? I must have a wee look online or the syllabus. Only noticed it existed when looking at a breakdown of results on Wednesday.

Technology for the JC has been around a good few year, I think LC not so long.

Woodwork/Metalwork teachers would generally teach it. It is a bit of a mix of everything from both courses basically. From my experience in a few schools it is taught where they don't have a woodwork room or metalwork room as that amount of equipment is not needed for it, however it can be taught in schools where these are present also.

It is an interesting subject but I have found very few schools offer it as maybe in the past they saw that offering MTW & Metalwork is enough. Just my opinion

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

Speaking of technology, the LC has a subject called Technology. I'm assuming it's different to DCG. Anyone here have it in their schools? I must have a wee look online or the syllabus. Only noticed it existed when looking at a breakdown of results on Wednesday.

Speaking of teaching word and excel, I usually do the ECDL with the TY group but we have decided to cut back on it this year due to the almost 300% increase in cost. Anyone else doing the same?

The numbers doing Technology are quite small from what I remember from the stats. I suppose schools didn't introduce it as it would take from Construction/Engineering/DCG. I think it was only introduced in the last couple of years. The JC course has been around a long time (relatively speaking). Remember one of my friends doing it in her school and that was in early 90s.


We are also dropping ECDL. The last time we did it was 2 years ago and we were still using the physical skills cards and they told us that it was the last year we could use them, and basically said they were doing us a massive favour by allowing us to use them. Think the fee was €400 for the school to be registered with ICS each year. Now that online is the only way to go they are charging €1200 just to be registered as a centre, which is outrageous. Considering all the work, testing, correcting is done in the school and really they only send out certs, you're not getting much for €1200. We only have TY every second year or so, so 20 students every two years did not justify the cost so we've dropped it.

doc_17

rainbowtrout wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Speaking of technology, the LC has a subject called Technology. I'm assuming it's different to DCG. Anyone here have it in their schools? I must have a wee look online or the syllabus. Only noticed it existed when looking at a breakdown of results on Wednesday.

Speaking of teaching word and excel, I usually do the ECDL with the TY group but we have decided to cut back on it this year due to the almost 300% increase in cost. Anyone else doing the same?

The numbers doing Technology are quite small from what I remember from the stats. I suppose schools didn't introduce it as it would take from Construction/Engineering/DCG. I think it was only introduced in the last couple of years. The JC course has been around a long time (relatively speaking). Remember one of my friends doing it in her school and that was in early 90s.


We are also dropping ECDL. The last time we did it was 2 years ago and we were still using the physical skills cards and they told us that it was the last year we could use them, and basically said they were doing us a massive favour by allowing us to use them. Think the fee was €400 for the school to be registered with ICS each year. Now that online is the only way to go they are charging €1200 just to be registered as a centre, which is outrageous. Considering all the work, testing, correcting is done in the school and really they only send out certs, you're not getting much for €1200. We only have TY every second year or so, so 20 students every two years did not justify the cost so we've dropped it.

We used the online version last year. It cost close to €100 per student. In fairness that meant that all the tests were conducted online and I didn't have to correct them which was a big plus for me. But we got away with the €375 registration fee compared to your €1200.


I would rather correct them at a cost close to the old system and still have ECDL running but that isn't going to happen due to ICS being inflexible. I wonder are they shooting themselves in the foot here? The price for it eats up a large part of the TY levy and I can see lots of schools doing the same as us

bdoo

doc_17 wrote: »

Speaking of technology, the LC has a subject called Technology. I'm assuming it's different to DCG. Anyone here have it in their schools? I must have a wee look online or the syllabus. Only noticed it existed when looking at a breakdown of results on Wednesday.

Speaking of teaching word and excel, I usually do the ECDL with the TY group but we have decided to cut back on it this year due to the almost 300% increase in cost. Anyone else doing the same?

It's a follow on from JC technology. A lot of control and electronics I think nut there is a core and options so you can suit it to yourself.

You can do some computer stuff too they had supplied free copies of virtual machine for to teach networking basics.

The ecdl is on its last legs in our place I think. We have a plc course and Ty doing it though so it prob helps to keep it going.
.
The whole area of ict is a joke. We are expected to use ict and deliver amazing lessons and all this nonsense with no tech support and shoddy equipment in many schools.

Fizzical

Small point re physics. My school have always found it difficult to find either a replacement for me during an absence or as a second teacher when required. The replacements were always unqualified. Mind you, I never thought they looked very hard either...

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

We used the online version last year. It cost close to €100 per student. In fairness that meant that all the tests were conducted online and I didn't have to correct them which was a big plus for me. But we got away with the €375 registration fee compared to your €1200.


I would rather correct them at a cost close to the old system and still have ECDL running but that isn't going to happen due to ICS being inflexible. I wonder are they shooting themselves in the foot here? The price for it eats up a large part of the TY levy and I can see lots of schools doing the same as us

I'd prefer to offer them FETAC level 4 modules in Spreadsheets, Word Processing etc. We are already a FETAC centre, costs would be lower and they could use those modules in the future towards a full FETAC cert if they wanted.