New shed

cloudroost

I'm hoping to start building a small shed soon to overwinter about 25 weanlings. Once these cattle go to grass in the spring, I will be rearing 25 calves in the shed. My plan is to build a 45x30 open fronted shed (with overhang)with slats to the front (12.5 or 14.5) and a dry sloped bedded area to the rear.I've been reading the other 'shed' posts, but have a few specific questions...
Cost is critical - I only have a few acres and can't justify anything extravagent.
My plan is to build a 50' long 4' deep block tank (cheapest option, as I can built it myself...).

- Will a single agitation point suffice ?
- Will I (contractor) be able to agitate a 4' deep tank?
- With this configuration (slats at feed passage + straw lie back area) , how much straw would I go through?- I'm hoping a bale a week would suffice
- Does anybody rear calves in an open fronted shed? My thinking is to put in a temporary barrier (5-6 foot high) high to block the low down draghts - Will this work?


Thanks for the help.

PatQfarmer

I don't have slats, so can't advise you there, but would think that a 4' deep tank may be impossible to agitate...but as I said, I'll leave that to those that know more.
I can say...with plenty of experience, that the mortality rate for your calves may be very high in such a shed...depending of course on the age that you bring them in there.
Even with temporary wind barriers, the airspace will be too big for 1-5 week old calves and draughts and cold will kill them. If the calves are older, they may be ok, as long as you can completely block the ground draughts.
Even in the best planned calf sheds, this is difficult, so I think it may be hard for you to achieve in this type of shed.
Have a look at neighbouring sheds. Go to a dairy man who rears his own, or some of the specialist rearers. You will see their set-up and you can decide from there.
Best of luck!:)

cloudroost

Thanks for the feedback PatQ.
In terms of agitating a 4' tank, the feedback I was getting was that it may be an issue all right - I was hoping that somebody on here has one and could advise.. (I'll have a chat with my local contractor and get his view..)

In terms of rearing calves, I suppose my aim is to have a shed that will double up for cattle and for calves - I don't want to build a specialist calf unit that will be used for a couple of months and a different shed for overwintering cattle that will be used for a couple of months, but I do take your points on board...

reilig

You'll be able to agitate with a shorter agitator. Most are made for 8ft tanks, but will agitate a 6ft tank. Major used to make a 6ft agitator, so I imagine taht one like this would manage in a 4ft deep tank.

As for building blocks, I'd be careful. The strength just isn't in them - there's a reason why most tanks are built with mass concrere - to allow steel to go into them to strengthen the structure. I know someone who built a tank with the 440 * 300 * 100 blocks more commonly found in foundations. He built them on the flat. He specified higher strength blocks than normal from his supplier at an extra cost.

The tank was literally 25ft x 12ft x 8ft deep. It had an outside agitating point. He bought second hand gang slats to put into it. So far its working well, but he says that he would have been as cheap if he had poured the walls and put some steel into it. It was for an elderly relative of his who keeps 5 cows and had some problems with pollution from an old cow byre that he had been using.

We keep our sucklers in an open fronted shed with a bedded creep area. When cows calve, they are put back onto slats within 7 days and calves can lie on straw out back. Never a problem with chills or pnumonia. Lack of air is a far greater problem than too much.

vanderbadger

we have an old shed at home, tank is only about 5 ft deep if that, a problem to bear in mind is that with our tank anyway we can get the agitator in but its atight squeeze to get the spout of agitator under slats...if tank was any shallower then the spout would be above slats and not able to stir the stuff around

bbam

I'd be thinking that PatQ is right about rearing calves in that shed.. with such an opening it would be near on impossible to keep a healthy environment. The key for rearing calves is fresh air but no draughts at all..

My only thought would be of bringing two walls up either side at the back of the slats, maybe 12 feet wide. Create a 12*15 area each side at the rear, throw a good gate across the front.. bring the walls well up, maybe sheet up to roof level..

When the weanlings are in remove the gates (or just one) and have the whole area for lying... When they are out stick up the gates and rear your calves..

cloudroost

Thanks for the feedback...

It looks like I may need to rethink my tank - maybe a shorter deeper mass concrete one would be in order.
bbam, I like your idea for the internal partitions - this would be a different (better) way of blocking the low-down draughts - Would 5 or 6 foot high suffice for these? Would continuing these to the roof not be counter productive? (As Relig says, lack of air is more of a problem than too much..)

bbam

cloudroost wrote: »

Would 5 or 6 foot high suffice for these? Would continuing these to the roof not be counter productive? (As Relig says, lack of air is more of a problem than too much..)

It depends really on the aspect of the shed.. I've in a few that get full force winds and yet seen some with their backs to the wind where on a windy day they are virtually still inside..
Even if you close it up to roof level remember that the "front" of the stall is gated and open to roof level so air wouldn't be a problem.. too still and too draughty is what you are trying to avoid.. a sort of "goldylocks" effect :P

My only caution is that these side stalls would, over the winter gather quite an ammount of straw dung with your weanlings and so you would need to think of access for graping out..

bob charles

cloudroost wrote: »

I'm hoping to start building a small shed soon to overwinter about 25 weanlings. Once these cattle go to grass in the spring, I will be rearing 25 calves in the shed. My plan is to build a 45x30 open fronted shed (with overhang)with slats to the front (12.5 or 14.5) and a dry sloped bedded area to the rear.I've been reading the other 'shed' posts, but have a few specific questions...
Cost is critical - I only have a few acres and can't justify anything extravagent.
My plan is to build a 50' long 4' deep block tank (cheapest option, as I can built it myself...).

- Will a single agitation point suffice ?
- Will I (contractor) be able to agitate a 4' deep tank?
- With this configuration (slats at feed passage + straw lie back area) , how much straw would I go through?- I'm hoping a bale a week would suffice
- Does anybody rear calves in an open fronted shed? My thinking is to put in a temporary barrier (5-6 foot high) high to block the low down draghts - Will this work?


Thanks for the help.

just going on the shed,

needs to be five ft at least and then you will have to fit sumps to let the agitator down further. so build a smaller 7ft tank, also if calculating for nitrates you have to take 200m off for freeboard irrespective of the tank depth. I would construct the underground tank to dept of ag spec as if there is a problem in the future the local council will have you by the short and curley's. I would also be of the opinion to get the take signed off by an engineer (€500) but it will be money very well spent in the future if a problem arises. have the T-shirt.

For rearing calves I would be trying to have facilities that mimic natural conditions as much as possible, so as much access to out doors and maybe a lye back in a shed for poor nights. I don't rear calves so my advice maybe guff in this regard

PatQfarmer

WRT the calves and draughts, I take on board what reilig says, but bucket-reared calves are different to suckled calves, imo.
They are more susceptible to disease and draughts are the major problem.
If you can manage the draughts, then you will succeed, if not, you will have problems.
Our calf shed has vented sheeting, A-roof and ridge, so fresh air is never a problem. All winter and even more so in the "Spring", we had both sets of end doors closed, 4'boards at the pen gates and for the younger calves, temporary low roofs of netting and straw for them to lie-back under, because the wind came from north, south, east and west! It blew down under the ridge, found gaps in sliding end doors etc. While we had chills and pneumonia in the early part of the winter, we had none once this set-up was in place.

I may be too fussy, but experience has taught me that young, bucket-reared calves (if kept indoors), need ventilation of course, but shelter mainly(and Vaccination!!).
OP, if doing later Spring calves (after turning out weanlings) it may be as easy to rear them in a sheltered paddock. That way, as bob charles says, they are "closer to Nature". I tend to get the later calves out as soon as possible, hanging the drinkers on gates or pallets if necessary.
Hope that helps.

PatQfarmer

Forgot to say...walls are 8' high, then vented from there up.

cloudroost

I tried the outdoor rearing this year as a trial run ..... Bought 6 in early May, and reared them in a hut in a paddock.....
- They all survived and are healthy despite the weather, but there were many days I wished I had a shed to put them into. As PatQ says, trying to face any shelter out of the wind was impossible..

Anyway, I think I have a better idea how to proceed.

Thanks again...

patrickn

I was in a slatted shed recently built with a milking parlour included back in the early Nineties. Great layout for ease of handling, space etc. However farmer built tank with blocks on flat. It lasted one year and is now permanently flooded by groundwater and impossible to repair.

What a waste as now using even the milking parlour portion is unviable.

Vandy West

you could build a deeper tank with reinforced cavity block (9"/215mm). The steel is embedded in the tank slab , run up through the hollow in cavity in the block and concrete is poured in to the block cavity. Don't know if there is a waterproofer that will stand up to slurry though, which will cause problems from groundwater

1chippy

ground draught is the only problem with rearing calves. we set up a few creep areas and an area for bucket rearing. we use sheets of ply, on temp fixings tight to the ground when the weather gets bad. Nothing thrives like a calf used to the elements.

caseman

cloudroost wrote: »

I'm hoping to start building a small shed soon to overwinter about 25 weanlings. Once these cattle go to grass in the spring, I will be rearing 25 calves in the shed. My plan is to build a 45x30 open fronted shed (with overhang)with slats to the front (12.5 or 14.5) and a dry sloped bedded area to the rear.I've been reading the other 'shed' posts, but have a few specific questions...
Cost is critical - I only have a few acres and can't justify anything extravagent.
My plan is to build a 50' long 4' deep block tank (cheapest option, as I can built it myself...).

- Will a single agitation point suffice ?
- Will I (contractor) be able to agitate a 4' deep tank?
- With this configuration (slats at feed passage + straw lie back area) , how much straw would I go through?- I'm hoping a bale a week would suffice
- Does anybody rear calves in an open fronted shed? My thinking is to put in a temporary barrier (5-6 foot high) high to block the low down draghts - Will this work?


Thanks for the help.

We have a 6 foot block build tank, 6 inch an flat no problems works perfect.Think its 18 years old.
We also have a teloscopic agitator i think it works lower tant four foot.
Yes it will work.

tismesoitis

could you not agitate a 4' tank with one of those long propellor type agitators.....i think! i,d agree with one of the last posters block tanks not a great job as polution inspectors could and have been known to condem them.

blue5000

OP what's the budget?

I have a very open calf shed, 3 bays long + a bay for straw by 25' wide. It only has 1 wall about 5' high between the straw and the first bay, everywhere else is gates when the calves are in with pallets up against back gates to break the wind. There is a 'nest' basically an L iron frame with sheep wire and straw on top hanging off the wall when the calves are small. Later on it is angled up at 45deg and used as a hay rack.

To put the weanlings in, the front gates are taken off and diagonal barriers put in. The shed is all straw bedded, no slats. It has a fall of 1:15 towards the front.

Hope this helps, any questions just ask;)

cloudroost

I was hoping to have tank + shed up (In basic form) for about 12K (I would be doing most of the work myself.)
I don't have any other buildings/storage, so I think I definitely need to go with a slatted tank.

Blue, when you say you have an 'very open shed' what do you mean - Are there no walls on any side? (bar the dividing wall for the straw?)
- How do you find it works healthwise for the calves?
- Do you use much straw?


In terms of the block built tank - a 4' block build tank is legit from what I read on the Dept website, so I'm not sure how it could be condemned as long as it is no bigger , plastered correctly etc... Maybe I'm missing something here, but how will anybody know how your tank is constructed once if it build and covered in - What I'm building is well below 200m2, so as far as I am concerned it is 'exempted development' and I don't require planning (I've confirmed this via Email from the local coco)
I think I'll be making a few calls to see what a 40'x12'x8' tank will cost to build ...

Thanks to all for their input.... lots to consider

blue5000

cloudroost wrote: »

I was hoping to have tank + shed up (In basic form) for about 12K (I would be doing most of the work myself.)
I don't have any other buildings/storage, so I think I definitely need to go with a slatted tank.

Blue, when you say you have an 'very open shed' what do you mean - Are there no walls on any side? (bar the dividing wall for the straw?)
- How do you find it works healthwise for the calves?
- Do you use much straw?




In terms of the block built tank - a 4' block build tank is legit from what I read on the Dept website, so I'm not sure how it could be condemned as long as it is no bigger , plastered correctly etc... Maybe I'm missing something here, but how will anybody know how your tank is constructed once if it build and covered in - What I'm building is well below 200m2, so as far as I am concerned it is 'exempted development' and I don't require planning (I've confirmed this via Email from the local coco)
I think I'll be making a few calls to see what a 40'x12'x8' tank will cost to build ...

Thanks to all for their input.... lots to consider

That's right, only wall is at the straw
Healthwise perfect
Last winter was about 7 cows and 7 weanlings in 2/3 of it, 2 stock bulls in 1 bay, used a 4x4 bale every 2 or 3 days, only bed the back half of the pen. Shed was built when I was in dairying so not actually used for small calves now

Rough ballpark figure for the tank incl slats is about 200e +vat per foot long, would recommend a manhole at each end for agitating, and go a bit longer so that the manholes are outside the shed.

cloudroost

Thanks Blue.
Have someone coming to have a look at some of the groundwork/digging tomorrow - I was putting it off for some good weather, but I think I'll bite the bullet and get it started.

majorsharpes

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Forgot to say...walls are 8' high, then vented from there up.

do the side walls stop at the bottom of straw area or slats or feeding passage?

Farmer Pudsey

Op if you are building a tank 50' long and about 12 wide to make it 8 deep rather than 4 deep will only take 1000 blocks (4'' blocks less for 6'') alright you may have to put a couple more metres of conc in the tank floor but it will not break the bank. So I would not skimp on the capacity of tank better to be looking at it than for it.

Conor556

I don't think that you will have a problem rearing calves in the shed as long as you have a wall about 5 ft high between the slats and bedded area, We have just finished putting in a 45 ft tank to take a 14,6 slat for sucklers similar to yours we have a 10ft creep area for the calves to lie with a blocked 5ft wall between the slats and creep area. Just wondering have you considered slat mats?