Standard Chartered - once again Big Brother snubs Britain ?

thecommietommy

Surprised no one has brought this up. Apparently a senior executive in London of Standard Chartered has stated regarding allegations about the bank “You f---ing Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with Iranians.” And it's all just based on allegations by the Yanks " Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York State Department of Financial Services, has launched an investigation into Standard Chartered Bank for "apparent grave violations of law and regulation".

Seems to me that Big Brother America has once again shown it's distain for Britain despite the UK backing them at almost every opportunity, i.e. Gulf Wars 1 & 2, Afghanistan etc.

Surely it's time Britain reappraised it's "special relationship" with the Yanks ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0815/standard-chartered-probe-settled-in-new-york.html

Eggy Baby!

Surely it's time Britain reappraised it's "special relationship" with the Yanks ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0815/sta...-new-york.html

Not really a special relationship, just more like the British riding the coat tails of the Americans.

southsiderosie

I am not sure I understand this correctly, but isn't the problem here that they were doing business with Iran through their New York subsidiary? Would this have applied if they were doing business through, say, Dubai? I ask because if the problem was that they were running this scheme through New York, then it is a simple matter of obeying the laws of the country that you are doing business with.

Shea O'Meara

I'm a big fan of the average working guy regardless of which part of the world he comes from. When it comes to governments of course its a very different matter. We're talking money and power. The special relationship is only special due to the use of their term 'special relationship' as I'm not aware of any other country they use that term with, but they have the exact same relationship with every other western country...if they can make more profit telling you to go f*** yourself, they'll tell you to go f*** yourself regardless of any 'special relationship'. same goes for most governments, not just the yanks.

thecommietommy

southsiderosie wrote: »

I am not sure I understand this correctly, but isn't the problem here that they were doing business with Iran through their New York subsidiary? Would this have applied if they were doing business through, say, Dubai? I ask because if the problem was that they were running this scheme through New York, then it is a simple matter of obeying the laws of the country that you are doing business with.

Yes SCB were doing their business through their New York branch. Appearently the SCB's chairman sees this as a limit on the freedom of international banking.

thecommietommy

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the average working guy regardless of which part of the world he comes from. When it comes to governments of course its a very different matter. We're talking money and power. The special relationship is only special due to the use of their term 'special relationship' as I'm not aware of any other country they use that term with, but they have the exact same relationship with every other western country...if they can make more profit telling you to go f*** yourself, they'll tell you to go f*** yourself regardless of any 'special relationship'. same goes for most governments, not just the yanks.

Well the Yanks aren't too impressed by the so called special relationship as can be seen below. Surely it's time Britain realised so and wasn't so quick to go running to the Yanks backing them up in wars around the globe regardless ?


" Richard LeBaron, the US deputy chief of mission, said the obsession with the alliance would “be humorous, if it were not so corrosive. He also reported to Washington that it would be “tempting” to take advantage of Britain’s attitude. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8180709/WikiLeaks-Britain-mocked-by-US-over-special-relationship.html

whitelines

The 'special relationship' revolves around common interests - it's as simple as that. Any country (at least any democratic western nation) desires a good relationship with The US. Of course, it goes without saying that a state such as The UK is of far more value to The US than say somewhere such as Luxembourg or Ireland because it is financially, militarily and politically much more powerful than such small statelets. For instance, The UK has a permanent seat on The UN Security council including a veto on UN action. Somewhere like Ireland is at the whim of it's powerful neighbours. It always amuses me when Irish men or women mock 'the special relationship', as if they have any independence at all. They don't even control their own currency, interest rates, or economy. Perhaps Ireland should try and develop a 'special relationship' with somewhere like Latvia?

golden lane

ireland has a special relationship with the eu........they say, ireland does....the big nanny relationship...i believe it is called......

I am pie

1. Britain is not represented by an un-named Standard Chartered executive.

2. Perhaps you could include the rest of the quote rather than butchering it to suit your own agenda:

"Though tempting to argue that keeping HMG off balance about its current standing with us might make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance, in the long run it is not in US interests to have the UK public concluding the relationship is weaking, on either side"

"The UK's commitment of resources - financial, military, diplomatic - in support of US global priorities remains unparalleled."

Reads a little differently, no ?

whitelines

thecommietommy wrote: »

Well the Yanks aren't too impressed by the so called special relationship as can be seen below. Surely it's time Britain realised so and wasn't so quick to go running to the Yanks backing them up in wars around the globe regardless ?


" Richard LeBaron, the US deputy chief of mission, said the obsession with the alliance would “be humorous, if it were not so corrosive. He also reported to Washington that it would be “tempting” to take advantage of Britain’s attitude. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8180709/WikiLeaks-Britain-mocked-by-US-over-special-relationship.html

What's humorous Mr 'commietommy' is your assumption that successive UK governments (certainly since WWII) don't know which side their bread is buttered on. Do you not think that if it occurred to such people (most of them Ox-bridge graduates) that The UK's relationship with The US was not in The UK's interest in some manner, that they wouldn't modify it? Do you not think that The Americans wouldn't do likewise if they saw fit? It's a relationship based upon common interests and common ideology, not some sort of homosexual love affair.

By the way, I think I've seen that quote above many times on Irish political forums. Maybe you could fill us all in on Suez or perhaps The Cod war as well? Or perhaps you have other examples of Uncle Sam letting down or using those laughable impotent Brits?

SamHarris

whitelines wrote: »

The 'special relationship' revolves around common interests - it's as simple as that. Any country (at least any democratic western nation) desires a good relationship with The US. Of course, it goes without saying that a state such as The UK is of far more value to The US than say somewhere such as Luxembourg or Ireland because it is financially, militarily and politically much more powerful than such small statelets.

Very good post, and the relative power of the UK to other Western states was even more pronounced when the special relationship began.

Im curious - can the people that believe it means nothing think of any other two global powers that have a smiliar relationship?

thecommietommy

whitelines wrote: »

The 'special relationship' revolves around common interests - it's as simple as that. Any country (at least any democratic western nation) desires a good relationship with The US. Of course, it goes without saying that a state such as The UK is of far more value to The US than say somewhere such as Luxembourg or Ireland because it is financially, militarily and politically much more powerful than such small statelets. For instance, The UK has a permanent seat on The UN Security council including a veto on UN action. Somewhere like Ireland is at the whim of it's powerful neighbours.

Yeah and when is the last time they used their veto against the Americans over an important issue. When it's about the Ozone layer or saving the whales or something !!!!

It always amuses me when Irish men or women mock 'the special relationship', as if they have any independence at all. They don't even control their own currency, interest rates, or economy. Perhaps Ireland should try and develop a 'special relationship' with somewhere like Latvia?

Britain had a special relationship with the IMF decades before Ireland in the mid 70's with the old enemy Germany no less having to be one of those bailing them out

southsiderosie

thecommietommy wrote: »

Yes SCB were doing their business through their New York branch. Appearently the SCB's chairman sees this as a limit on the freedom of international banking.

Hm. Does the imposition of corporate tax also inhibit their freedom? What about US anti-trust laws? Corporations cannot pick and choose what laws they want to follow when doing business in another country - if they don't want to deal with US regulations, they are free to do business in less restrictive jurisdictions (Dubai and Hong Kong come to mind).

golden lane

thecommietommy wrote: »

Yeah and when is the last time they used their veto against the Americans over an important issue. When it's about the Ozone layer or saving the whales or something !!!!


Britain had a special relationship with the IMF decades before Ireland in the mid 70's with the old enemy Germany no less having to be one of those bailing them out

and now britain contributes to the imf....to bail ireland out.....plus a loan as well...special relatrionship..???????

thecommietommy

SamHarris wrote: »

Very good post, and the relative power of the UK to other Western states was even more pronounced when the special relationship began.

Im curious - can the people that believe it means nothing think of any other two global powers that have a smiliar relationship?

Ah, Britain isn't a global power, it's in the second division. FFS they struggled to retake the Falklands bits of rock 30 years ago.

thecommietommy

golden lane wrote: »

and now britain contributes to the imf....to bail ireland out.....plus a loan as well...special relatrionship..???????

Ireland is bailing out Britain's banks through their bond holders along with Germany etc. And as for the " loan ", as Cameron put it, - " the only money that Britain has lent directly is to the Republic of Ireland, and I think it is actually in our national interest and, I would say, in the interests of Northern Ireland, that we do not see a collapse in the economy in the Republic," Mr Cameron said during Prime Minister's Questions.

Not much of a global power when a small country like Ireland can almost bring it down !!!!!

thecommietommy

Can we get back to discussing the so called special relationship between the UK and USA and leave Ireland out of it.

golden lane

thecommietommy wrote: »

Ireland is bailing out Britain's banks through their bond holders along with Germany etc. And as for the " loan ", as Cameron put it, - " the only money that Britain has lent directly is to the Republic of Ireland, and I think it is actually in our national interest and, I would say, in the interests of Northern Ireland, that we do not see a collapse in the economy in the Republic," Mr Cameron said during Prime Minister's Questions.

Not much of a global power when a small country like Ireland can almost bring it down !!!!!

so you think the uk is a global power.....but not much of one....interesting...as nobody in the uk thinks that.....they just think they are getting on with life.....

I am pie

thecommietommy wrote: »

Can we get back to discussing the so called special relationship between the UK and USA and leave Ireland out of it.

Are you talking to yourself here?...read your last post.

However, what about that quote you chopped up to suit your agenda. Any comment on the rest of it or are we racing on to the next ill informed sweeping generalisations without covering off any of those that went before?

SamHarris

thecommietommy wrote: »

Ah, Britain isn't a global power, it's in the second division. FFS they struggled to retake the Falklands bits of rock 30 years ago.

It certainly is a global power, second or maybe third tier yes but the only first tier would be the US.

K-9

Posts are far too uncivil and personal. Thread will be locked if posters can't behave themselves!

thecommietommy

I am pie wrote: »

1. Britain is not represented by an un-named Standard Chartered executive.

2. Perhaps you could include the rest of the quote rather than butchering it to suit your own agenda:

"Though tempting to argue that keeping HMG off balance about its current standing with us might make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance, in the long run it is not in US interests to have the UK public concluding the relationship is weaking, on either side"

"The UK's commitment of resources - financial, military, diplomatic - in support of US global priorities remains unparalleled."

Reads a little differently, no ?

But that's the point of my OP, Britain is doing all the commitment of resources - in one direction. The USA doesn't care and at a drop of a hat does what it likes.

thecommietommy

SamHarris wrote: »

It certainly is a global power, second or maybe third tier yes but the only first tier would be the US.

Well I'd have China in that league ( the USA owes it mega Billions as it is), Possibly Russia with it's huge resources, army and manpower, if a bit behind the others and the EU though not a state but as a political and economic body. In the second league emerging super powers like India and Brazil.

SamHarris

thecommietommy wrote: »

Well I'd have China in that league ( the USA owes it mega Billions as it is), Possibly Russia with it's huge resources, army and manpower, if a bit behind the others and the EU though not a state but as a political and economic body. In the second league emerging super powers like India and Brazil.

China's economy is less than half that of the US. The US has 60+ military allies, China has one. Their softpower isnt even comprable.

The US accounts for 45-50% of world technological output, China does not account for enough to be meassured.

Militarily the US is completly dominant, not even China pretends to have begun challenging it in that field, particularly with regards to projection - which China has virtually none of, the US is nearly everywhere, and can be nearly anywhere else within days with its fleet (which is many times the size of the Chinese fleet.

China may own 8% of US public debt, but internal US banks own 60%. Does that make them a global power superpower?

Russia's economy is smaller than California's. Its demographics are a mess. It has little pull in its own backyard nowadays Its not in the same league as China, much less the US.


To keep the thread on topic sure, the UK is not the premium world power but it can make its weight felt practically anywhere in the world using a variety of methods, all of which are boosted by their strong relationship with the US.

Shea O'Meara

golden lane wrote: »

ireland has a special relationship with the eu........they say, ireland does....the big nanny relationship...i believe it is called......

Off topic much?

I think you'll find mnore money is going to international investors than Irish people. Also it was these very EU people holding up Ireland as great financial example not so many years ago, so stick your nanny quote up your hole

thecommietommy

SamHarris wrote: »

To keep the thread on topic sure, the UK is not the premium world power but it can make its weight felt practically anywhere in the world using a variety of methods, all of which are boosted by their strong relationship with the US.

Well stating the above is only the obvious but at least it's more accurate than trying to infer it's somehow on a par with America " think of any other two global powers that have a smiliar relationship", when clearly the special relationship is only in the imagination of the British. But sure it's not even the premium power in Europe, just ask Frau Merkel As for America, as can be seen with the US's indifference to the UK's banking system, it's just another colour on the map to Uncle Sam. Period as a Yank would say.

thecommietommy

One of the things that's not to be forgotten about Standard Charted is the futher damage it is doing to the UK's banks with America and the rest of the world. Already Barclays, HSBC and Royal Bank of Scotland are to be questioned in the US over alleged manipulation of international lending rates with Barclays already been fined £290m. And then some would like to make out that only we can produce bankers like Seanie Fitz and Fingers Fingleton ......... :rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/story/973163/libor-scandal-british-banks-face-us-inquiry

SamHarris

thecommietommy wrote: »

Well stating the above is only the obvious but at least it's more accurate than trying to infer it's somehow on a par with America " think of any other two global powers that have a smiliar relationship", when clearly the special relationship is only in the imagination of the British. But sure it's not even the premium power in Europe, just ask Frau Merkel As for America, as can be seen with the US's indifference to the UK's banking system, it's just another colour on the map to Uncle Sam. Period as a Yank would say.

And where did I say that exactly? Stop strawmaning your way through the thread, its irritating.

Yes, I guess it is if you do not consider cultural, lingual, political, miliary and economic ties. Good point.

thecommietommy

SamHarris wrote: »

And where did I say that exactly? Stop strawmaning your way through the thread, its irritating.

Yes, I guess it is if you do not consider cultural, lingual, political, miliary and economic ties. Good point.

The US may have cultural, lingual, political, miliary and economic ties with half the countries on the planet including this small one, doesn't mean we have a 'special relationship' anything above the rest like the UK tries to claim it has.

whitelines

I wonder does Ireland have a special relationship with The UK? After all, we all speak the same language, have the same capitalist economies, trade in large volumes, support the same football teams, listen to the same music, are partners in The EU, share a land border and above all else, huge numbers of Irish citizens have moved to The UK over the last 100 years, happily bringing their kids up as little Englishmen.

Could Ireland actually claim to have a special relationship with The US through this special relationship with The UK? It certainly couldn't otherwise, that's for sure.

K-9

whitelines wrote: »

I wonder does Ireland have a special relationship with The UK? After all, we all speak the same language, have the same capitalist economies, trade in large volumes, support the same football teams, listen to the same music, are partners in The EU, share a land border and above all else, huge numbers of Irish citizens have moved to The UK over the last 100 years, happily bringing their kids up as little Englishmen.

Could Ireland actually claim to have a special relationship with The US through this special relationship with The UK? It certainly couldn't otherwise, that's for sure.

Thread is about the US/UK special relationship, not about Ireland.