Speeding on R166

Harry Tasker

Last Wednesday afternoon, my father's dog, wandered across the road to the field opposite. The road in question is the R166 from Hackett's Cross in Clogherhead up in the direction of Drogheda. My father lives on the road in an area known as the Dales.

The R166 has a speed limit of 80kms an hour but, since the new harbour was built, has seen reckless speeds up and down the road because of the new surface.

Whilst my father's dog was in the gateway of the field (note not on the road), a white van travelling at around 110kph hit the dog leaving it severly injured in the gateway. It would appear the driver swerved to hit the dog. My dad (80) was witness to this and, unfortunately, the dog died on the way to the vets in Drogheda.

I don't usually rant, or like to either but here we go. Are these people thick? Where the accident happened was on a corner, my dad was about to walk over to get the dog. If he had, he would most certainly have been killed and would not be here today.

Time and time again, we pull out of my father's house and have a car racing up behind us, we're lucky not to be hit. What does it take to get these idiots to slow down? What does it take to have these fools realise that it is not only them on the roads, there are those who actually use the roads within the limits set down by law.

Unfortunately I wasn't there last week. If I was, I would have got the licence of that van, informed the gardai and gladly stood up in court to give evidence against the driver.

From here on in, if I do see anything like that, I will be taking numbers.

:mad:

End of Rant. Off my soapbox.

HT.

flickarius

And right you are, all across the country these eejits are putting their lives and the lives of others at risk without any thought about the consequences. I'm sorry to hear about the dog.

whelan1

had to give up bringing cows across the road due to idiots speeding... absolute assholes! just wish people would slow the **** down... sorry about language, but these people dont care, they live their life by the clock and 3 minutes ruins their day

MugMugs

Playing devils advocate here but dog off leash gets hit by van on a road.

From a liability perspective, it seems quite clear cut to be honest.

Scotty #

Harry Tasker wrote: »

What does it take to get these idiots to slow down?

Usually a stone wall, tree, deep ditch, or some poor unfortunate person/persons in the wrong place at the wrong time. No amount of 'education' seems to work.

I think fines in this country are ridiculous. €80 for speeding. Less than the cost of a night out for putting other road users lives at risk. In France it's €750 or you lose your car. I think that's enough to make people think twice.

jumpymunky

MugMugs wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here but dog off leash gets hit by van on a road.

From a liability perspective, it seems quite clear cut to be honest.

But what if the dog was a small child?

Dogs running out on this road is a fairly infrequent occurence, people driving like lunatics at ridiculous speed, regrettably much more frequent.

Mr Magnolia

jumpymunky wrote: »

But what if the dog was a small child?

Well a small child shouldn't be allowed run freely on the road either.

jumpymunky

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Well a small child shouldn't be allowed run freely on the road either.

Of course they shouldn't - but these things happen. The OP said the driver was travelling way over the speed limit - if a driver stays within the speed limit then they've a much better chance of stopping safely / avoiding the obstacle on the road.

MugMugs

jumpymunky wrote: »

Of course they shouldn't - but these things happen. The OP said the driver was travelling way over the speed limit - if a driver stays within the speed limit then they've a much better chance of stopping safely / avoiding the obstacle on the road.

They do and it is very unfortunate when accidents also happen.

I understand what the OP is saying but in the same breath, there was a thread in Motors not so long ago where a loose dog damaged some poor fella's car.

Roads are there to be driven. The OP's father witnessed his dog get ploughed down and I'd say it was very difficult to watch but peoples interpretation of the speed of events during times of panic can differ greatly. Bear in mind that 110KPH isn't a long shot away from 60MPH the former National Speed Limit and there's no way for anybody but the driver to actually know what speed was being done.

In saying that, the driver was out of line for not stopping and if he indeed aim for the poor animal then it is he who is the animal but there needs to be a bit of give and take on our roads.

Roads are for road use. An unrestrained animal in a rural area on a known busy road is asking for trouble.

Like I said in my initial point though OP. Devils Advocate and I am sorry for your troubles and for that of your father. It's not a nice thing to have to see and my heart goes out to him for that.

jumpymunky

MugMugs wrote: »

Roads are there to be driven..

Sorry to come across as a nark but that just isn't the case. Roads are for all road users be they car drivers, van drivers, cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians or animals. Just because one is driving a vehicle doesn't mean one's 'rights' as a road user trump anyone elses.

The 80 kph speed limit is just that - a limit - its not a target, this road is bendy and has lots of private entrances opening on it - ideally the ones close to the bends shouldn't be there but they are - drivers should adjust their speed to suit the conditions.

MugMugs

jumpymunky wrote: »

Sorry to come across as a nark but that just isn't the case. Roads are for all road users be they car drivers, van drivers, cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians or animals. Just because one is driving a vehicle doesn't mean one's 'rights' as a road user trump anyone elses.

The 80 kph speed limit is just that - a limit - its not a target, this road is bendy and has lots of private entrances opening on it - ideally the ones close to the bends shouldn't be there but they are - drivers should adjust their speed to suit the conditions.

With respects, I'd never contest that roads are not there to be walked, cycled or skipped on etc..... However he with about a tonne of metal around him has a slight advantage. Other road users and him himself should act accordingly. As a pedestrian, I tend not to argue with vehicles and out of means of self preservation tend not to challenge them.

In relation to the limit / not a target comment..... Yeah, I won't even start.

What conditions should drivers adjust their speed for? Uncontrolled animals wandering about the place? Perhaps dog owners should adjust their animal control tactics too if they insist on keeping one.

We could be here all day... Like I said, the only person who knows what speed that driver was doing is that driver, anything else is just speculation.

jumpymunky

MugMugs wrote: »

With respects, I'd never contest that roads are not there to be walked, cycled or skipped on etc..... However he with about a tonne of metal around him has a slight advantage. Other road users and him himself should act accordingly. As a pedestrian, I tend not to argue with vehicles and out of means of self preservation tend not to challenge them.

Its not about road users challenging each other - its about the onus being on the driver of a vehicle to respect other road users they could potentially injure or kill.

What conditions should drivers adjust their speed for? Uncontrolled animals wandering about the place? .

Yes - thats exactly what you're supposed to able to react to should a hazard appear.

We could be here all day... Like I said, the only person who knows what speed that driver was doing is that driver, anything else is just speculation.

It doesn't matter what speed the van driver was doing - if he hit the animal he wasn't in control of the vehicle - assuming he made some attempt to stop - its not unreasonable to assume he was travelling too quickly.

Scotty #

MugMugs wrote: »

Roads are there to be driven.

jumpymunky wrote: »

Just because one is driving a vehicle doesn't mean one's 'rights' as a road user trump anyone elses.

Actually, by law, pedestrians have the right of way over all other road users.

MugMugs

Scotty # wrote: »

Actually, by law, pedestrians have the right of way over all other road users.

MugMugs wrote: »

With respects, I'd never contest that roads are not there to be walked, cycled or skipped on etc.....

jumpymunky wrote: »

Its not about road users challenging each other - its about the onus being on the driver of a vehicle to respect other road users they could potentially injure or kill.




Yes - thats exactly what you're supposed to able to react to should a hazard appear.



It doesn't matter what speed the van driver was doing - if he hit the animal he wasn't in control of the vehicle - assuming he made some attempt to stop - its not unreasonable to assume he was travelling too quickly.

With the greatest of respects, I drive 40k Miles a year and I've hit three animals. One dog, one squirrel and one pheasant (not really an animal but you get the idea)

I wasn't speeding any of the ocassions but they ran out in front of me from ditches etc.... What do you expect me to do? Crawl on the N2 at 20KPH in case somebody can't control their pets?

You're anti driver here. Where's your criticism for the OP's fathers control on HIS animal which is HIS responsibility. The law actually states that if an animal crosses your path you're to hit the thing instead of swerve and cause another accident of more severe consequences. Take your head out of the clouds

jumpymunky

MugMugs wrote: »

You're anti driver here. Where's your criticism for the OP's fathers control on HIS animal which is HIS responsibility. The law actually states that if an animal crosses your path you're to hit the thing instead of swerve and cause another accident of more severe consequences. Take your head out of the clouds

I drive too. On the road in question on an almost daily basis. Of course the OPs father should have restrained the animal but the fact is he didn't for whatever reason. As I've said already you're far more likely to witness drivers travelling too fast along this road than you are to see animals along it.

The N2 for the most part is a complelely straight national road with a 100kph speed limit. You've said you weren't speeding so the collisions were unavoidable.

The specific part of the R166 mentioned in the OP is bendy and has been the scene of several accidents over the years. All I'm saying is that if drivers adjusted their driving to take account of these road conditions then it would be a safer road to travel on.

MugMugs

jumpymunky wrote: »

All I'm saying is that if drivers adjusted their driving to take account of these road conditions then it would be a safer road to travel on.

And if those keeping animals in the vicinity of this area did so with due care then there wouldn't be an issue.

jumpymunky

MugMugs wrote: »

And if those keeping animals in the vicinity of this area did so with due care then there wouldn't be an issue.

...with animals, no. But not all the incidents on this road over the years involved animals - drivers still need to stop driving like total morons too.

St. Leibowitz

Speed is notoriously difficult to judge with any accuracy. Even Garda Traffic Corps members with experience can be caught out witout the laser or radar to confirm. I'm not familiar with the road, but the OP mentions a new surface. This alone may give the impression that speed has increased (if road noise is reduced, cars will not be heard until they are closer, thereby giving the impression that they are travelling faster). The OP also says that a van travelling at about 110kph (how do you know, do you have people you know drive past you and shout their speed as they go, so that you can learn to estimate various speeds ??), SWERVED (at 110kph !!!) into a gate to hit a dog. The kindest I say is that this is very unlikely.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that speeding doesn't happen, or that there may be speeding on this stretch of road. As I've said, I'm not familiar with the R166, just happend by because this thread was on the boards.ie landing page with the latest posts. I just think that there's more to this than a van swerving at high speed into a gate and continuing on.

Harry Tasker

Thanks to all for all the posts, some very good comments etc with regard to what happened.

Just a few points on what happened.

- the dog wasn’t actually on the road, he was in the gateway of a field with his bum sticking out from the hedge.

- a dog doesn’t need to be on a lease/lead to be under control, my dad had the dog very well trained, it was purely a split-second moment when the dog wandered over to the gate for a sniff. Check Crufts for trained dogs without leads.

- the following are some interesting points from the Rules of the Road regarding driving on the road, respect for others and ‘expecting the unexpected’.


Speed limits
A vehicle shall not be driven at a speed exceeding that which will enable its driver to bring it to a halt within a distance the driver can see to be clear.
As a driver, you must always be aware of your speed and judge the appropriate speed for your vehicle, taking into account:
• driving conditions,
• other users of the road,
• current weather conditions,
• all possible hazards,
• and speed limits.
Driving conditions relate to the volume of traffic around you and the quality of the road.
Other users of the road include motor-cyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, school children, animals and all others you as a driver should anticipate will or may be on the road.
Possible hazards include anything you can see that can, and will, give rise to an emergency, such as oncoming traffic if you are turning onto a major road. They also include anything you cannot yet see and anything you can reasonably expect to happen, such as a pedestrian walking onto the road in front of you, a child running onto the road between parked cars, and or animals on the roadway. It includes your own physical and mental state while driving (for example whether you are stressed or tired) and the condition of your vehicle.
Respecting other road users
The vehicle does not have greater right-of-way than any other road user, so, for safety reasons, you should drive defensively. This means expecting the unexpected and making way for other road users when necessary.
Some of the actions you might need to take in normal conditions include:
• making way for an ambulance, fire engine or Garda vehicle,
• watching and stopping for children emerging from between cars, and
• waiting until a vehicle has started its left-hand turn before you emerge from a side road.
To make sure all road users are safe, be aware of your responsibilities towards:
• pedestrians, children, older people, people with disabilities and wheelchair users,
• cyclists and motorcyclists, and
• any animal traffic on the road.

Again, thanks for all the comments.

Atomic Pineapple

Can you clear up how a van (not known for their handling ability) managed to swerve into a gap in the ditch where a gate was, at speed (how can you tell it was 110 kph?) to purposely hit the dog? It's a genuine question, it really doesn't make sense to me.

Speeding obviously isn't the cause of the dogs death but more so moronic driving it sounds like. While speed may be an issue on the road mentioned, targeting it will have little effect and we need to implement proper driver and pedestrian education from the ground up.

Salt001

I walk rural roads every day and nearly every day have to jump into a ditch because some idiot thinks he /she is on the racecourse at Le Mons.
I'm also a driver but one with a bit of cop on and the knowledge that you have no idea what or who is around the next bend.
Drivers need to learn to drive to conditions, what is a fine speed on the motorways is certainly not suitable for a country road.
OP very sorry about the poor dog and your Dad.

Mycroft H

MugMugs wrote: »

You're anti driver here. Where's your criticism for the OP's fathers control on HIS animal which is HIS responsibility. The law actually states that if an animal crosses your path you're to hit the thing instead of swerve and cause another accident of more severe consequences. Take your head out of the clouds

Now, I'm calling BS on that. Where in the RTA legislation does it say to hit animals? Obviously common sense dictates that you don't endanger other road users in avoiding obstructions but I'd be surprised that it explicitly says to hit the animal.