Tri swim safety, or water wings?

Kurt Godel

I had really been looking forward to Tri the Hook today, especially the 750m swim. There were a few waves, nothing hectic, but at briefing we are told swim gets trucated from 750m to 500m. A few minutes before the start, the TI guy makes a call, its now down to under 250m swim. Have to respect the marshall, but there's no need to be wrapping everyone in cotton wool. Small waves (no breakers), a bit of a breeze, sunny day, cove beach, RNLI and kayaks everywhere. (My report here)

I'm not having a go at the marshalls or TI; they call it as they see it on the day and we take it or leave it. But this was a warm sunny day, warm water, with a few waves- my kids swam at the same beach until I came back after the race. My suspicion is that its easier to look at tail-enders or "have-a-go" newbies (nothing wrong with being from either category), decide on their (lack of) ability, and truncate the swim. Surely a better option would be to allow those fearful of their ability to truncate their race to a Duathlon, rather than have everyone else suffer (and believe me there were plenty complaining about the truncated swim when I got to the finish line)?

Oryx

I would imagine the logistics of having differing distances in one race would be difficult, particularly at short notice. And ultimately safety has to be the overriding factor when making decisions like this. In the same way that boards has to make rules here to avoid libel actions, race directors have to make calls to avoid injury (and the ensuing insurance claims). If people could be held responsible for their own safety there would be no issue but we are litigious beasts and accidents cost money.

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

I would imagine the logistics of having differing distances in one race would be difficult, particularly at short notice. And ultimately safety has to be the overriding factor when making decisions like this. In the same way that boards has to make rules here to avoid libel actions, race directors have to make calls to avoid injury (and the ensuing insurance claims). If people could be held responsible for their own safety there would be no issue but we are litigious beasts and accidents cost money.

That's what what mentioned at briefing. I don't see the difference in allowing 200 people swim the advertised 750m, versus having 250 swim <250m. The required amount of boats, kayaks, etc (strong RNLI presence); seriously, you would not believe how benign these waves were. As it stands (according to my kids), two people were brought out anyway. That's an indicator of one of two things: either the race was dangerous for the field, or some of the field weren't prepared, and safety measures dealt with them. Maybe those two people should sue?

Ah, I know I'm ranting, but there has to be an element of risk in sport. If its a common thing for tri's to overcompensate on swim safety, I guess its not for me.

Oryx

You are among the strongest of swimmers. Which is why it annoys you I suppose. I don't like nannying either. But if the organisers take entries without setting a minimum standard then this is what they have to consider. And lets face it, Mr Average can be pretty damn stupid when estimating his ability to do something, or lack of. They have to allow for that. And in tri there are plenty of tough races where you'll find adequate competition and a hardy course. This just wasn't one of them.

PGF

Could have been the nicest swim of the year. Water was perfect. Disappointed it was shortened.

sconhome

It seems to be happening a lot in recent years with races being shortened. I'm not a great swimmer but my view is the conditions are part of the challenge. If I'm not able for the conditions I should make the decision to pull out for my own safety.

If every tricky swim gets shortened then we'll end up just doing duathlons and there will be no incentive to work to improve your swim.

RayCun

amphkingwest wrote: »

If every tricky swim gets shortened then we'll end up just doing duathlons

Triathlon a bit of a victim of its own success here. If people like running and cycling but don't like swimming maybe they should be doing duathlons. But duathlons don't have IM, they're not in the Olympics etc...

Oryx

I didn't enter Galway last year because I knew the swim was at risk. Ditto this year. I'm not training up, or paying through the nose, for a duathlon. I avoid tris with sea swims. Not because I hate the sea (though thats the running joke) but because conditions are so unpredictable. Our own club race was shortened to 750 from 1500 but even the good swimmers mostly felt that was a good call on the day. But if races are being needlessly weakened then hopefully they will be the ones to fall off the calendar through lack of support? (There is a glut of races right now - theyre not filling). Maybe the way to fix this is to choose smart. Pick races from veteran organisers who won't run and hide at the first sign of waves.

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

Pick races from veteran organisers who won't run and hide at the first sign of waves.

That's good advice.

Here's an indication of conditions yesterday. Maybe there was an issue with canoe/competitor ratio or something like that (seemed like they had plenty of rescue vehicles, but I'm baffled as to why we couldn't swim in that gorgeous sea).

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aoGW8p8cWPg/UCdqwyylPcI/AAAAAAAAAsY/4b78OSH1fMc/s640/Screen%20shot%202012-08-12%20at%2009.26.31.png&quot; height="360" width="640"[/IMG]

Oryx

Yeah. Thats calm. I would have been a bit mad too

911sc

Wow, this looks like a calm sea. There are more waves in the bath when my kids wash:rolleyes:

It is frustrating when swims get shorten for no real apparent reason. If other organisers follow suit, that's the end of tri in Ireland.

It is may be time to bring some sort of swim ability test to enter triathlons, that would benefit everybody.

kingQuez

Not familiar with the course or anything, but it seems a lot of races have a one-loop course here (up to half im distance). If you're trying to be inclusive, but keep swim safety standards, would it be such a bad idea to have some multi-loop swims so that competitors can retire early (under their own steam), and have a smaller course to patrol for the kayakers + safety crew?

RacoonQueen

Kurt Godel wrote: »

That's good advice.

Here's an indication of conditions yesterday. Maybe there was an issue with canoe/competitor ratio or something like that (seemed like they had plenty of rescue vehicles, but I'm baffled as to why we couldn't swim in that gorgeous sea).

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aoGW8p8cWPg/UCdqwyylPcI/AAAAAAAAAsY/4b78OSH1fMc/s640/Screen%20shot%202012-08-12%20at%2009.26.31.png&quot; height="360" width="640"[/IMG]

That's ridiculous. Would expect it was more a safety or cost cutting issue based on that. Doesn't look like it should have been shortened to 500 never mind less than that.

911sc wrote: »

It is may be time to bring some sort of swim ability test to enter triathlons, that would benefit everybody.

Would never work. I went into my first two races feeling perfectly confident that I could take on the ow swim and being more than capable of swimming 3k in a pool but still blew up in the water. A lot of newbies are simply inexperienced in open water.

Oryx

Spoke to someone today who thought the decision was more to do with the wind direction than anything. I haven't a clue how that works but anyway. Same wind and worse sea in curracloe today and totally swimable. The TI official made the call on it. Blame them. (Presumably the insurance buck stops with them)

Zuppy

Oryx wrote: »

Spoke to someone today who thought the decision was more to do with the wind direction than anything. I haven't a clue how that works but anyway. Same wind and worse sea in curracloe today and totally swimable. The TI official made the call on it. Blame them. (Presumably the insurance buck stops with them)

Race ref is responsible for the insurance and while it is a good system, the ref makes the call as he sees fit. Sometimes it is wrong but if for example the coast guard or safety coordinator said it was adverse the ref would be silly to allow the swims

I have been at swims where MET Eireann have a small craft warning but it is a flat calm sunny day at the beach. If something happens the ref may be asked to justify their decision.

liamo

I'm a weak (but confident) swimmer and would have been really disappointed with the shortened swim had I been racing.

I was a spectator at the race and, in my opinion, although it was a bit choppy, the chop only seemed to be at all significant at a point beyond the buoys.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Kurt Godel wrote: »

That's good advice.

Here's an indication of conditions yesterday. Maybe there was an issue with canoe/competitor ratio or something like that (seemed like they had plenty of rescue vehicles, but I'm baffled as to why we couldn't swim in that gorgeous sea).

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aoGW8p8cWPg/UCdqwyylPcI/AAAAAAAAAsY/4b78OSH1fMc/s640/Screen%20shot%202012-08-12%20at%2009.26.31.png&quot; height="360" width="640"[/IMG]

Joke IMO more chop in the Lake in Caroline Kearney this weekend than that picture suggests. I am one of the weaker swimmers but jesus what do they want it pan flat like a snooker table.

promethius

absolute joke. whoever made that call doesn't have a clue about water safety for triathlon swims. all this talk of ironmen and tough challenges and swims getting binned for the sake of a bit of chop. everyone's wearing hugely buoyant wetsuits and surrounded by safety crews. where's does it end, pool based triathlons once the health and safety brigade get their way

water looks lovely by the way i can understand your eagerness to get on with it.

peter kern

this could be the solution ;-)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=476344599067201&set=a.167543253280672.33723.161244997243831&type=1&theater

nerraw1111

So under what, if any, conditions would that race have gone ahead? Seems ridiculous.