Selling house - purchaser hasn't signed

Belemchar3

Hi, Just looking for some advise please.

we are in the process of selling our house and buying another, the purchaser went in to sign contracts for our house last week, after a long period !! so we were delighted when she went in, we then get a phone call from our solicitor saying that her solicitor is looking for planning permission forms , and cert. of compliance( we have built side ext. and porch)luckly we have everything we sent everything over to our sol. straight away, but the next day we get phone call her sol. is looking for more information, we have a build shed in our back garden, he wants some cert for that, when we bought the house about 8 years ago there was a bedroom down stairs but we put it back to the original sitting room but he is looking for the original surveyor who we dont even know as it was before we bought the house, to come back up and give his opionion on the room now.

the purcharser can see there is no bedroom she can see its a sitting room, she had her own surveyor up and the banks surveryor, so surely to god that should be enough. i under stand about the planning permission, of course she wants to make sure all is in order. the solicitors should have had all this sorted ages ago, i think its disgraceful. anyway it now turns out the porch is 12 inches out so it now looks like we will have to go for retention, we are in such a panic as we dont want the vendors of the house we are buying to pull out or the purchaser of our house i feel sick with worry! our architect was saying that when this happenns what normally happens is that we can still go ahead with sale, purchaser can still sign but her sol. will hold a bond untill the planning goes through, is this correct.

im so afraid that they will not go with this as it appears to me they are a little bit over the top. is there anyway we can let the vendors of the house we are buying be assured that we are still good to go but there is just a slight delay, we cant sign untill our contracts are signed, the house we are buying is an executors sale so nobody in the house, should we offer more deposit?. sorry if i dont make any sense but any advise would be so much appreciated, i am in such a state of panic now! please say this is all normal and just a learing curve and it will all work in the end!

Marcusm

With the greatest of respect, you're blaming the wrong person in criticising the purchaser. Did your solicitor not ask whether you had extended and for the relevant permissions and certificates before he sent out the draft contracts. If not you need to criticise him (and to an extent yourself). If the information is not provided to the vendor and solicitor upfront, it will lead to suspicion and greater attention to detail as to implementation ofthe permission.

As an example, I've just hada vendor fail to disclose unauthorised development which he (should have)/(has) been aware of since his initial purchase 8 years ao. He could have obtained retention permission prior to sale although the council might have wondered why he did not seek it when he made an application to dish the pavement. He (or more correctly his financier) are now counting the cost of that.

Belemchar3

Hi, I don't think I'm blaming the purchaser , their absolutely right wanting everything in order . It most certainly is the solicitors fault for not doing proper searches , my issue is the searches should of been done ages ago and not on the day contracts due to be signed.

All this mess all over 12 inches !!! So unfair. Anyway I was just hoping and wondering that we can all still go ahead and sign and their solicitor will hold back money untill retention cleared, is this possible ???

Please can anybody reassure me.

odds_on

Marcusm wrote: »

With the greatest of respect, you're blaming the wrong person in criticising the purchaser. Did your solicitor not ask whether you had extended and for the relevant permissions and certificates before he sent out the draft contracts. If not you need to criticise him (and to an extent yourself). If the information is not provided to the vendor and solicitor upfront, it will lead to suspicion and greater attention to detail as to implementation ofthe permission.
.........................

What I cannot understand is why vendors do not have all the paperwork ready even before they put a house on the market.

I pulled out of purchasing a property about two weeks ago, because the vendor's (a receiver's) paperwork was incorrect. The bank's authorization for the receiver to sell was incorrect as well as the apartment was stated to be on the first floor in one document and on the fourth floor in another place (same document, I think).

In this day and age, when there is so much property on the market and so few buyers about, I would have thought that anything that could help a sale along would be done. Another thing with that sale was that after 5 weeks since I put a deposit down, the BER cert had still not been obtained.

My solicitor reckoned that it could take months to sort out - so I pulled out. I see the property on the market again, already - and obviously still with the paperwork incorrect.

I don't know if it is a case of the vendor's solicitors trying to get one over the purchaser's solicitor or what, but surely a vendor's solicitor should know what is required.

I have bought and sold properties in Spain and Argentina where both the vendor and purchaser used the same solicitor and divided the cost between them. Also, in Argentina, an Estate agent would not advertise a property unless he was sure that the vendor had title to sell - he wanted to see the paperwork first.

Belemchar3

As far as we were concerned we had everything in order , ber , bin charges , cert of compliance . We are not legally minded we are relying on solicitors for information ! Anyway we didn't know about the porche being 12 inches over , it was only when architect came back up to sort the cert for the shed that it was noticed . But we just hoping now that purchaser will be happy to keep money back and still sign ! Fingers crossed!!!

Marcusm

Belemchar3 wrote: »

As far as we were concerned we had everything in order , ber , bin charges , cert of compliance . We are not legally minded we are relying on solicitors for information ! Anyway we didn't know about the porche being 12 inches over , it was only when architect came back up to sort the cert for the shed that it was noticed . But we just hoping now that purchaser will be happy to keep money back and still sign ! Fingers crossed!!!

If you have to apply for retention permission then, unless the purchasers have 100% cash, I cannot see their solicitor permitting them to exchange subject to that permission. This is because most finance companies/banks now require completely clean title certificates before exchange. If retention permission takes time, the purchasers finance offer may expire.

Again, I suggest that if the documents had been delivered upfront, I suspect there never would have been a need for an architect as purchaser would likely not have cared about the shed. Seeing extensions and no planning apps disclosed upfront will have made them suspiscious. You may have provided them later but at that stage they'll have been wary of relying on anyone but an independent professional.

Belemchar3

Planning permission was granted for the porch but unfortunately it was built 12 inches to big !! Honest mistake it was only brought to our attention when architect came back up .

Graces7

We had this kind of hassle when we sold a house a few years ago.

Again, it was the solicitor who failed to inform us of the paperwork needed.
And the agent also.

We are not Irish and had never sold a property here before. Also the vendor of the house had failed to send us the paperwork as it was he who applied for planning for the septic tank we put in,

There was also a right of way issue and although we told the solicitor that this had been previously settled in court, he failed to find this.

In our case, the buyers used this as an excuse to force a reduction in their offer.

Jo King

odds_on wrote: »

What I cannot understand is why vendors do not have all the paperwork ready even before they put a house on the market.

In most cases the title deeds are held by a bank or building society. The vendors
solicitor has to give the bank an undertaking to get them. It can take several weeks to get the documentation from the banks. Solicitors can be sued on their undertaking and will usually want to be reasonably sure a sale will take place before seeking the title deeds.

odds_on

Jo King wrote: »

In most cases the title deeds are held by a bank or building society. The vendors solicitor has to give the bank an undertaking to get them. It can take several weeks to get the documentation from the banks. Solicitors can be sued on their undertaking and will usually want to be reasonably sure a sale will take place before seeking the title deeds.

Thank you, Jo King, for the explanation. However, I fail to understand it completely (stupid, fool or whatever, I may be).

Surely, a vendor is entitled to at least the details of, if not a copy of the title deeds, at any time? Thus, a correct contract of sale can be written quickly.

What does "the undertaking" consist of?

Is it just the Irish legal system or the banking system?

Jo King

odds_on wrote: »

Thank you, Jo King, for the explanation. However, I fail to understand it completely (stupid, fool or whatever, I may be).

Surely, a vendor is entitled to at least the details of, if not a copy of the title deeds, at any time? Thus, a correct contract of sale can be written quickly.

What does "the undertaking" consist of?

Is it just the Irish legal system or the banking system?

It is both. Banks do not keep title deeds readily available. A solicitor would not issue a contract based on copies. There may be a mistake in the copies so his client could end up contracting to do something which in fact can't be done. A undertaking is a letter from a solicitor guaranteeing that he will retain the title deeds to the banks order and be responsible for their safe custody until he returns them or pays off the outstanding balance on the mortgage. If the deeds go missing the bank will sue the solicitor.

odds_on

Perfectly clear now, thanks Jo King.