Water piping

Username John

Hello all,

One job I have been meaning to do with a while, and am only getting around to do it now is pipe water around the farm.
The last time I did anything with water piping was a long time ago, and it was always the black 'alkathene' piping we used. There was nothing else to use back then.

But now, I see lads using a new blue kinda pipe, is this called 'hydradare' piping?

I will be putting in 3/4 inch pipe, it'll be laid above ground for the most part (beside an existing passage)

So - what's the difference between the two? I haven't even priced them yet, so maybe the cost is the big difference?
I wanted to ask on here first, why would you use hydradare over althathene? Or what do people think?

All comments appreciated.
Thanks.

gazahayes

http://www.waterfittings.ie/product/25mm-pipe/

this should help a bit not too sure myself.

grousedogtom

I fit water pumps for my bread and butter, the blue pipe is called MDPE medium density polyethylene, it's as cheap as normal gauge black hydrodare yet 12 bar pressure rated much higher than either normal or heavy gauge hydrodare, I'd recommend fitting 32mm mdpe which is the equivalent of 1inch, much improved flow rate over 3/4 inch.
PS 25mm mdpe = 3/4 inch black hydrodare

grange mac

Username John wrote: »

Hello all,

One job I have been meaning to do with a while, and am only getting around to do it now is pipe water around the farm.
The last time I did anything with water piping was a long time ago, and it was always the black 'alkathene' piping we used. There was nothing else to use back then.

But now, I see lads using a new blue kinda pipe, is this called 'hydradare' piping?

I will be putting in 3/4 inch pipe, it'll be laid above ground for the most part (beside an existing passage)

So - what's the difference between the two? I haven't even priced them yet, so maybe the cost is the big difference?
I wanted to ask on here first, why would you use hydradare over althathene? Or what do people think?

All comments appreciated.
Thanks.

Once am finished the reseeding thats next...also lookin at 3/4 black pipe...dont know about blue pipe so black getting hg black pipe as will b over ground and tractor will b driving on it plus dont eant it cracking if it freezez in winter...i heard ng does not cope well with frost?

Username John

grange mac wrote: »

Once am finished the reseeding thats next...also lookin at 3/4 black pipe...dont know about blue pipe so black getting hg black pipe as will b over ground and tractor will b driving on it plus dont eant it cracking if it freezez in winter...i heard ng does not cope well with frost?

Hi Grange Mac,
Thanks for response - but what's hg vs ng?

grange mac

Normal guage and heavy guage. Big diff drive a tractor over ng pipe it will squash it wont if its heavy guage. Duno if fact but was told when water freezes it will burst a ng surface pipe. App wont if its a hg pipe. Fyi our coop charges 85for ng and 135hg per 100m coil. Hope it helps

Username John

grange mac wrote: »

Normal guage and heavy guage. Big diff drive a tractor over ng pipe it will squash it wont if its heavy guage. Duno if fact but was told when water freezes it will burst a ng surface pipe. App wont if its a hg pipe. Fyi our coop charges 85for ng and 135hg per 100m coil. Hope it helps

Thanks grange mac.

98 and 155 in our local co-op, must do some more shopping around next week.

just do it

grange mac wrote: »

Duno if fact but was told when water freezes it will burst a ng surface pipe. App wont if its a hg pipe.

The opposite is true, and I know that from first hand experience.

If your burying pipe make sure to use the HG, otherwise use the NG for overground. Philmac fittings all the way;)

just do it

grousedogtom wrote: »

I'd recommend fitting 32mm mdpe

Any issues with using this over-ground and how do the fittings compare in price?

grange mac

just do it wrote: »

grange mac wrote: »

Duno if fact but was told when water freezes it will burst a ng surface pipe. App wont if its a hg pipe.

The opposite is true, and I know that from first hand experience.

If your burying pipe make sure to use the HG, otherwise use the NG for overground. Philmac fittings all the way;)

Really....now am confused. Hate when get conflicting information...well hav few weeks to decide as no water shortage at moment. Can i ask did you have both hg and ng or was it all hg?

just do it

grange mac wrote: »

Really....now am confused. Hate when get conflicting information...well hav few weeks to decide as no water shortage at moment. Can i ask did you have both hg and ng or was it all hg?

I'd about 50m of HG left over from pipe I'd buried and I used this over-ground. It cracked 2 or 3 times due to freezing so I whipped it out and it now acts as insulators for fencing. It was only 1/2 inch though, so maybe 3/4 inch would be more resistant to frost? Having said that I don't believe so.

Well worth going to 3/4 inch and I regret not putting it in at the time. In hindsight I was well advised about the NG but poorly advised about the diameter:rolleyes:. Probably worth checking out the blue pipe though if it's not too late.

ootbitb

using 3/4hg overground in temperatures as low as -16 degC.


Busted a few metal valves but pipe OK.

just do it

ootbitb wrote: »

using 3/4hg overground in temperatures as low as -16 degC.


Busted a few metal valves but pipe OK.

I'm gone completely away from metal joiners and valves. At least with plastic the contraction and expansion difference between the pipe and fittings should be less. Haven't had a leak yet with any of the philmac fittings.

Username John

just do it wrote: »

The opposite is true, and I know that from first hand experience.

If your burying pipe make sure to use the HG, otherwise use the NG for overground. Philmac fittings all the way;)

grange mac wrote: »

Really....now am confused. Hate when get conflicting information...well hav few weeks to decide as no water shortage at moment. Can i ask did you have both hg and ng or was it all hg?

ootbitb wrote: »

using 3/4hg overground in temperatures as low as -16 degC.

Busted a few metal valves but pipe OK.

Hello,
Same as ootbitb - I have some 3/4hg overground for maybe the last 10 - 20 metres running into a shed. It didn't freeze the last two winters, so thats good enough for me...

I'll be using hg I think, even though its 50% more expensive to ng - but its (hopefully) a one time job...

just do it

Username John wrote: »

just do it wrote: »

The opposite is true, and I know that from first hand experience.

If your burying pipe make sure to use the HG, otherwise use the NG for overground. Philmac fittings all the way;)

grange mac wrote: »

Really....now am confused. Hate when get conflicting information...well hav few weeks to decide as no water shortage at moment. Can i ask did you have both hg and ng or was it all hg?

ootbitb wrote: »

using 3/4hg overground in temperatures as low as -16 degC.

Busted a few metal valves but pipe OK.

Hello,
Same as ootbitb - I have some 3/4hg overground for maybe the last 10 - 20 metres running into a shed. It didn't freeze the last two winters, so thats good enough for me...

I'll be using hg I think, even though its 50% more expensive to ng - but its (hopefully) a one time job...

Did you look into the blue MDPE piping? Seems to be what the dairy lads are using these days

Username John

just do it wrote: »

Did you look into the blue MDPE piping? Seems to be what the dairy lads are using these days

I asked in the local co-op about it, and they didn't have prices to hand - but I was told it would only be for very high pressures, and really only for dairy farmers, who need water quick. I only have sheep now, I don't have a big farm, and will never have cows. So I dont have the need, and I couldn't justify the cost of it.

Oh - I did get a small plastic JFC trough there last week, just to keep me going in one place... And to have a trough to move around would eb handy for me...
But FFS - it was 30 gallon, supplied by 3/4 inch pipe, and the water pressure is good... but it took AGES to fill, I mean 5+ mins... wasn't impressed... :mad:

grange mac

Am watchin this thread with interest. Your problem with the water trough is they come with a high pressure fitting, remove the actual ball handle and take out the white insert, get a low pressure one ( bigger hole for more flow) and volla!!oh yeah my coop didnt sell the fitting so may hav to go to a plumbers etc for one

49801

Username John wrote: »

I asked in the local co-op about it, and they didn't have prices to hand - but I was told it would only be for very high pressures, and really only for dairy farmers, who need water quick. I only have sheep now, I don't have a big farm, and will never have cows. So I dont have the need, and I couldn't justify the cost of it.

Oh - I did get a small plastic JFC trough there last week, just to keep me going in one place... And to have a trough to move around would eb handy for me...
But FFS - it was 30 gallon, supplied by 3/4 inch pipe, and the water pressure is good... but it took AGES to fill, I mean 5+ mins... wasn't impressed... :mad:

Check the valve for dirt... It can happen easy enough for dirt to get in if you have just made new joins.
If you are on low pressure u may need to change the ballcock from the pre fitted high pressure valve to a low pressure one

just do it

grange mac wrote: »

Am watchin this thread with interest. Your problem with the water trough is they come with a high pressure fitting, remove the actual ball handle and take out the white insert, get a low pressure one ( bigger hole for more flow) and volla!!oh yeah my coop didnt sell the fitting so may hav to go to a plumbers etc for one

49801 wrote: »

Check the valve for dirt... It can happen easy enough for dirt to get in if you have just made new joins.
If you are on low pressure u may need to change the ballcock from the pre fitted high pressure valve to a low pressure one

You learn something new everyday, I didn't realise the pre-fitted balcock is for high pressure! Thanks for tip

grousedogtom

Username John wrote: »

just do it wrote: »

Did you look into the blue MDPE piping? Seems to be what the dairy lads are using these days

I asked in the local co-op about it, and they didn't have prices to hand - but I was told it would only be for very high pressures, and really only for dairy farmers, who need water quick. I only have sheep now, I don't have a big farm, and will never have cows. So I dont have the need, and I couldn't justify the cost of it.

Oh - I did get a small plastic JFC trough there last week, just to keep me going in one place... And to have a trough to move around would eb handy for me...
But FFS - it was 30 gallon, supplied by 3/4 inch pipe, and the water pressure is good... but it took AGES to fill, I mean 5+ mins... wasn't impressed... :mad:

I've been buying both black hydrodare and in recent years the blue mdpe, the mdpe is as cheap as ng hydrodare and the fittings way less expensive

just do it

grousedogtom wrote: »

I've been buying both black hydrodare and in recent years the blue mdpe, the mdpe is as cheap as ng hydrodare and the fittings way less expensive

How is it to work with? Is it as flexible as hydrodare? Does it need more/ less care?

grousedogtom

It's easier to roll out from a 150 meter coil that the hydrodare, it's also rated to 12 bar which is extremely high pressure, yes it's quite flexible similar to hg hydrodare

keep going

can you get a kilometre roll of mdpe 32mm+ and where is the best prices

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

can you get a kilometre roll of mdpe 32mm+ and where is the best prices

Why would you want a KM roll of mdpe pipe and how would you handle it if you did?

freedominacup

Username John wrote: »

I asked in the local co-op about it, and they didn't have prices to hand - but I was told it would only be for very high pressures, and really only for dairy farmers, who need water quick. I only have sheep now, I don't have a big farm, and will never have cows. So I dont have the need, and I couldn't justify the cost of it.

Oh - I did get a small plastic JFC trough there last week, just to keep me going in one place... And to have a trough to move around would eb handy for me...
But FFS - it was 30 gallon, supplied by 3/4 inch pipe, and the water pressure is good... but it took AGES to fill, I mean 5+ mins... wasn't impressed... :mad:

I think your biggest problem is friction loss because your pipes are too small.

kevthegaff

i have about 300 yrds of 1 and 1/4 inch black piping going up a steep hill to two troughs, Now this is steep! anyways they have 2 t joiners going into the troughs to a 1/2 inch fittings. The highest trough isnt filling right, water is going about 10 yrds short and fills a little, i tried to up the pressure on the high pressure pump, it is at 100psi now i think. i tightened the small spring on the pump, am i right what im doing?

delaval

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have about 300 yrds of 1 and 1/4 inch black piping going up a steep hill to two troughs, Now this is steep! anyways they have 2 t joiners going into the troughs to a 1/2 inch fittings. The highest trough isnt filling right, water is going about 10 yrds short and fills a little, i tried to up the pressure on the high pressure pump, it is at 100psi now i think. i tightened the small spring on the pump, am i right what im doing?

Increase the pipe to the trough to 1" and reduce at ballvalve to 3/4. Water is about volume rather than pressure. Install low pressure ballvalve.
1/2 pipe isn't fit for loading cattle

Username John

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have about 300 yrds of 1 and 1/4 inch black piping going up a steep hill to two troughs, Now this is steep! anyways they have 2 t joiners going into the troughs to a 1/2 inch fittings. The highest trough isnt filling right, water is going about 10 yrds short and fills a little, i tried to up the pressure on the high pressure pump, it is at 100psi now i think. i tightened the small spring on the pump, am i right what im doing?

delaval wrote: »

Increase the pipe to the trough to 1" and reduce at ballvalve to 3/4. Water is about volume rather than pressure. Install low pressure ballvalve.
1/2 pipe isn't fit for loading cattle

I have the same issues (I think) Kev, but would be interested to hear what people on here think...

I have 3/4 inch pipe going up a steep hill (the hill is maybe 300ft, and the pump is 400ft deep, so thats 700ft push)
Also - the 3/4 pipe has to run about 750 metres - 1km to get to the top of the hill, as it follows a passageway which kinda goes around the hill a little

At present the pump is set to cut in at 70, and pump til 90psi, but this isn't enough (as it doesn't get to exactly the top)

I was advised to do 2 things
1) Put in at least 1-inch pipe (if I was doing it, I might go bigger, and hope it would be a once off job)
2) Put in a pipe that goes straight up, which would prob cut in half the length to get to the top

Thoughts? Was what I was told correct?

Also - mole-ploughing in a pipe, I should be able to do it, ground here isnt too stoney or anything.
But anyone any idea of price to do such a thing?

Thanks.

Viewtodiefor

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have about 300 yrds of 1 and 1/4 inch black piping going up a steep hill to two troughs, Now this is steep! anyways they have 2 t joiners going into the troughs to a 1/2 inch fittings. The highest trough isnt filling right, water is going about 10 yrds short and fills a little, i tried to up the pressure on the high pressure pump, it is at 100psi now i think. i tightened the small spring on the pump, am i right what im doing?

If you shut off the lower one which I presume is working? Have u adequate flow to the other one then?

You may need to increase t's to 3/4 if I was you and u are getting water to your highest take off point I'd have that filling first and then the next trough. Which means you may need another pipe to return back to the lower trough.
Also have you checked what type of ballcoxk you have make sure they r low pressure ones

kevthegaff

not sure prob high pressure, it should be still pumping it, the well is only id say 50-100ft and probably a 300ft climb to the highest through. hope i can fit a 3/4 inch ballcock into this concrete through tho, nothings simple in farming!

Viewtodiefor

kevthegaff wrote: »

not sure prob high pressure, it should be still pumping it, the well is only id say 50-100ft and probably a 300ft climb to the highest through. hope i can fit a 3/4 inch ballcock into this concrete through tho, nothings simple in farming!

And how far up is first trough? Are you getting water to highest trough when u shut off lower trough?

kevthegaff

i have no turn off valve in the first through, but sher when thats full it shouldnt affect surely?

Viewtodiefor

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have no turn off valve in the first through, but sher when thats full it shouldnt affect surely?

Yeah when it's full are you getting flow to the top trough?

kevthegaff

no its just about 10 yrds from the top:(

keep going

freedominacup wrote: »

Why would you want a KM roll of mdpe pipe and how would you handle it if you did?

its to carry water to an outfarm and it would be nice to avoid joints from a flow rate and leak risk point of view.like most things i ll figure out how to handle it when i see it but would probaly use the bale handler on the loader

kevthegaff

feckin water still acting up of all days, went up to the cows through full but the water only cuts in now and then:(

Username John

kevthegaff wrote: »

feckin water still acting up of all days, went up to the cows through full but the water only cuts in now and then:(

Just guessing now Kev - but could it be the lower cut in pressure of the pump?

I think you said the pump will pump up to 100psi, but what pressure will it kick in at?

EDIT : In my pump, there are two screws, one for upper cut off pressure, the other for lower cut in pressure... Thats why I ask...

kevthegaff

Username John wrote: »

Just guessing now Kev - but could it be the lower cut in pressure of the pump?

I think you said the pump will pump up to 100psi, but what pressure will it kick in at?

EDIT : In my pump, there are two screws, one for upper cut off pressure, the other for lower cut in pressure... Thats why I ask...

Thanks John, not sure should it be higher than 40psi, how do icheck?

Username John

kevthegaff wrote: »

Thanks John, not sure should it be higher than 40psi, how do icheck?

Sorry Kev, I don't know how to check it...

I had a guy look at my pump (as I don't really know that much about them) and he increased the pressure in mine to 60 lower and 90 upper, by turning the screws on the switch... but he had a pressure meter...

The issue I had before was that like you, it wasn't cutting in as the lower cut in pressure was too low...

longgonesilver

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have about 300 yrds of 1 and 1/4 inch black piping going up a steep hill to two troughs, Now this is steep! anyways they have 2 t joiners going into the troughs to a 1/2 inch fittings. The highest trough isnt filling right, water is going about 10 yrds short and fills a little, i tried to up the pressure on the high pressure pump, it is at 100psi now i think. i tightened the small spring on the pump, am i right what im doing?

How high(in feet) above the pump house/pressure gauge is the top trough. This is called the head, the distance you have to lift the water. Multiply this figure by .433 to get PSI. This is the minimum PSI needed to get water into the trough. Depending on the type of pump, and the rest of your setup you add this pressure and a small bit to get the cut-in pressure. The cows will now be able to start the pump by drinking. If adjusting the cut in pressure of the pump you must also change the air pressure in the expansion vessel/storage tank.

The size of the pipe the length of the pipe or the steepness of the hill does not affect this, it could be up a cliff. What these do affect is the water flow. The pressure at the top tank will be low so a low pressure ballcock should work here and let water in faster.

If the hill is very high you might be asking too much of the pump. The height of the hill above the pump house can be estimated using the contour lines on the old OSI maps.

td5man

delaval wrote: »

Increase the pipe to the trough to 1" and reduce at ballvalve to 3/4. Water is about volume rather than pressure. Install low pressure ballvalve.
1/2 pipe isn't fit for loading cattle

You were saying!!!

delaval

td5man wrote: »

You were saying!!!

td5man

delaval wrote: »

Pic

delaval

td5man wrote: »

Pic

Fine ass

freedominacup

td5man wrote: »

Pic

There must be some story behind(:rolleyes:) that pic.

td5man

freedominacup wrote: »

There must be some story behind(:rolleyes:) that pic.

He had to sell the clothes off his back to feed his cattle. ;-)

freedominacup

td5man wrote: »

He had to sell the clothes off his back to feed his cattle. ;-)

Good start. Next...