Solar panels, Boiler Stove and additional copper cyliner

Squint

Hi there,

Would anyone out there like to comment on this plumbing / heatingquestion?

I have a back boiler at the moment and I wish to upgrade it with a newboiler stove insert or free standing multi-fuel stove. When the house was built,for aesthetic reasons the back boiler was placed too far away from the copper cylinder.As a result the back boiler but is not much good at heating the domestic water.But it is great for heating the radiators. The reason I want to upgrade it isjust for fuel efficiency - but I would like it to heat the domestic water too more effectievly.

It is a fairly large bungalow with a south facing back roof. Thereis a roof space that runs the full length of the house which is not being usedfor anything other than the water storage tanks.

What I would like to do is fit the new boiler and hook itup with a new (additional) duel coil cylinder in the roof space close to the new stove. Thiscylinder will also be rigged up with the solar panels and then “piggy-back” this new cylinder into theexisting cylinder (which is currently able to be heated by oil) andelectricity.

Is all this:

a) Possible

b) Worth doing

c) Is there a better way to do it.

I’m just thinking this way I will get a more efficient and greenersetup without discarding what is working OK already. My problem is that thesoove has to be where is is and the existing copper cylinder has to be whereit is.

I hope I’ve explained this OK – any questions please get back.

Thanks



Sq

Outkast_IRE

What size cylinder were you hoping to get ??

you better get a professional opinion to check if its ok to put it in the attic, the weight in them is huge when filled.

Also if you put your cylinder up in the attic with the water storage tanks, then unless the tanks are higher than the cylinder it wont work, and in a lot of attics this simply isnt possible due to height restrictions , or you convert to a pressurised system which is extra work again.

Squint

Hi Outkast,

I would just go for a domestic size cylinder if possible.

To get over the problem of weight and clearance by the existing storage tanks I could locate the new tank in an alcove beside the new stove.

The question is, would such an arrangement compliment and improve my existing sytem? I'd prefer not to rip out the existing system altogether but kind of augment it.

Regards,


Sq

Outkast_IRE

Squint wrote: »

Hi Outkast,

I would just go for a domestic size cylinder if possible.

To get over the problem of weight and clearance by the existing storage tanks I could locate the new tank in an alcove beside the new stove.

The question is, would such an arrangement compliment and improve my existing sytem? I'd prefer not to rip out the existing system altogether but kind of augment it.

Regards,


Sq

If your installing solar people normally go for at least a 300 ltr cylinder or greater depending on needs. This would be a much larger size than the standard domestic cylinder in an irish home.

Personally i wouldnt reccomend using it to augment your existing system, i think it would overcomplicate things greatly having 2 cylinders in different locations.

If you can locate your new cylinder closer to the back boiler then that should work as long as its done correctly.
The oil and solar could be run to suit the new cylinder location.

ccsolar

Hi
I think the problem with your back boiler not heating the domestic hotwater needs to be looked at first before you carry out any work.
Get a professional in to look at this as it could be a simple fix ( the system might just need balancing)
You can put a second tank in the attic but I'm thinking a 250 litre as this size tank fits under the collar ties normally.
You would be best to get the secondary return connected between this tank and your existing tank inorder to keep both water tanks at the same temperature.
Get a few quotes but I'm betting that you replace the existing tank with a new 300 litre and get your back boiler sorted very simply .

Cc

Squint

Hi There,

Thanks for your replies, I will get a plumber OK to look at everything before I decide.

The house was built by direct labour almost about 20 years ago. The plumbers at that time did a very good job. But with all that I had to do at the time, I'm afraid I fecked up a bit with the original plans. Because the design of the house which dictated that the copper cylinder and the back boiler were about 30 feet apart in the first place was a mistake (which I made). But when the hot press was plumbed originally I was very suprised that the copper cylinder was not installed at waist height but right on the concrete floor. I seem to remember at the time that the plumber said it will not make much difference because a gravity system would not work anyway because the cylinder and the B/B were too far apart. It would be great it the whole thing can be balanced out but I am not sure it's possible. The b/b does heat the tank a bit but not really much at all

Now that we have decided to upgrade the back boiler with a stove and I would like to sort out this issue while I'm at it. There is a lot of space in the attic above the sitting room and I thought it would be great to utilise that. I just checked the clearance in the roof space - there is 7' of clearance. The current expansion tank is right under the apex of the roof so there is about 6' of clearance available for a new copper cylinder under that

There are load bearing walls that can be used to support the additional weight of a new cylinder so weight is not an issue.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and put in a new cyliner in the roof right above the sitting room at the same time as replacing the stove and hook up the oil system to the new cylinder as Outkast suggests. That way everything will be upgraded and should work very well for the next 20 years

So if you don't mind me asking you a couple more questions:

1. Given the space above is it feasible for me to put a new copper cylinder up there as a "vented system"?

2. If you guys were doing this, would you also opt for the solar heating too. That would probably mean a bigger capacity cylinder. With this in mind is it possible to get a solar cylinder that is about 4' high so the header tank will still have sufficient gravity feed.

Thank you,


Sq

ccsolar

Squint wrote: »

Hi There,

Thanks for your replies, I will get a plumber OK to look at everything before I decide.

The house was built by direct labour almost about 20 years ago. The plumbers at that time did a very good job. But with all that I had to do at the time, I'm afraid I fecked up a bit with the original plans. Because the design of the house which dictated that the copper cylinder and the back boiler were about 30 feet apart in the first place was a mistake (which I made). But when the hot press was plumbed originally I was very suprised that the copper cylinder was not installed at waist height but right on the concrete floor. I seem to remember at the time that the plumber said it will not make much difference because a gravity system would not work anyway because the cylinder and the B/B were too far apart. It would be great it the whole thing can be balanced out but I am not sure it's possible. The b/b does heat the tank a bit but not really much at all

Now that we have decided to upgrade the back boiler with a stove and I would like to sort out this issue while I'm at it. There is a lot of space in the attic above the sitting room and I thought it would be great to utilise that. I just checked the clearance in the roof space - there is 7' of clearance. The current expansion tank is right under the apex of the roof so there is about 6' of clearance available for a new copper cylinder under that

There are load bearing walls that can be used to support the additional weight of a new cylinder so weight is not an issue.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and put in a new cyliner in the roof right above the sitting room at the same time as replacing the stove and hook up the oil system to the new cylinder as Outkast suggests. That way everything will be upgraded and should work very well for the next 20 years

So if you don't mind me asking you a couple more questions:

1. Given the space above is it feasible for me to put a new copper cylinder up there as a "vented system"?

2. If you guys were doing this, would you also opt for the solar heating too. That would probably mean a bigger capacity cylinder. With this in mind is it possible to get a solar cylinder that is about 4' high so the header tank will still have sufficient gravity feed.

Thank you,


Sq

Hi
A 250 litre tank is approximately 1.5m high and a 300 litre is 1650mm high
The fact that you live in a bungalow means that it is simple to run 2 x 1" pipes from your back boiler to your original cylinder too sort out the problem with heating your domestic hot water
Cc