Fined on Dublin Bus

AstonMartin

I am not from Dublin and until today was unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares.

I was going from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge and paid e1.90.

3 ticket inspectors came on to the bus at Lucan, looked at my ticket, demanded to see my id or they would haul me off to the police station to prove my identity.

They noted down my PPS number from my social services card, my student ID from an old student card and my address and issued me with a e50 fine.

I gave them a fake address, not that it would make much difference I assume seeing as they have my PPS number.

I have 21 days to pay this fine and they told me I would be brought to court if I didn't pay.

What happens if I don't pay?

Hilly Bill

AstonMartin wrote: »

I am not from Dublin and until today was unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares.

I was going from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge and paid e1.90.

3 ticket inspectors came on to the bus at Lucan, looked at my ticket, demanded to see my id or they would haul me off to the police station to prove my identity.

They noted down my PPS number from my social services card, my student ID from an old student card and my address and issued me with a e50 fine.

I gave them a fake address, not that it would make much difference I assume seeing as they have my PPS number.

I have 21 days to pay this fine and they told me I would be brought to court if I didn't pay.

What happens if I don't pay?

You have already given the answer plus have had more answers in after hours.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056722761

AstonMartin

You are a credit to the community.

The_Wrecker

They know its a fake address and they do follow through to court.

The_Wrecker

Your also lucky its a Thursday as we do reduced fines today. http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Standard-Fare-Penalty-Update/

AngryLips

You should fake your own death

Captain Commie

As I said on the other post

Genuine mistake me arse, OP knew fine well and was trying to get away with paying less, got caught and is now trying to get out of it.

@ OP, grow up and pay the fine, you got caught, deal with it like a man and stop looking for little boy excuses not to pay!!!

The_Wrecker

The standard fine is €100, so something isnt adding up!

paddyland

AstonMartin wrote: »

I am not from Dublin and until today was unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares.

I was going from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge and paid e1.90.

3 ticket inspectors came on to the bus at Lucan, looked at my ticket, demanded to see my id or they would haul me off to the police station to prove my identity.

They noted down my PPS number from my social services card, my student ID from an old student card and my address and issued me with a e50 fine.

I gave them a fake address, not that it would make much difference I assume seeing as they have my PPS number.

I have 21 days to pay this fine and they told me I would be brought to court if I didn't pay.

What happens if I don't pay?

Translate:- people from the country should be allowed pay whatever they like.

charlemont

Ignore it, The cops won't be hot on your trail over it....So relax.. If it comes to a head your only looking at another fine anyway.

Spook_ie

Do they not give you a spell in Mountjoy for the false address bit though, by charging you with something or other? If not, why not?

@op Why the concern, you took a gamble, you lost pay yer fine

nbar12

You should have asked the driver how much it was to Cellbridge if you are unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares. Only got yourself to blame!

The_Wrecker

nbar12 wrote: »

You should have asked the driver how much it was to Cellbridge if you are unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares. Only got yourself to blame!

Unfamilar, knew the €1.90 fare.

Our man in Havana

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Unfamilar, knew the €1.90 fare.

Like how all the culchies knew the only 55p fare.

Losty Dublin

Spook_ie wrote: »

Do they not give you a spell in Mountjoy for the false address bit though, by charging you with something or other? If not, why not?

@op Why the concern, you took a gamble, you lost pay yer fine

That's in the bye laws for Dublin Bus; yep. Something like what OP did, when it goes to court (Not if), it will be offered up in evidence that an incorrect address was offered. Meet the wrong judge on the wrong day and an otherwise cursory fine can start getting bigger than it ought to be, especially if the toss is argued by the defence. OP, pay up and spare yourself the hassle of a day in the Richmond Courts.

Losty Dublin

charlemont wrote: »

Ignore it, The cops won't be hot on your trail over it....So relax.. If it comes to a head your only looking at another fine anyway.

And a matching conviction to go with it

seamus

You intentionally paid the incorrect fare - if you were unfamiliar with DB fares, then how did you know that €1.90 was one of them?

You have no legitimate excuse for this. Pay the €50 and accept that you got caught.

Saruman

AstonMartin wrote: »

demanded to see my id or they would haul me off to the police station to prove my identity.

Is that even legal? How can they haul you off to a police station without touching you, and touching you is assault. The most they can do is follow you and see where you go while on the phone to the police.

Of course, too late now. Pay the fine.

All bus stops and indeed many buses clearly state that you should tell the driver your destination and then you will be charged the correct amount.

Losty Dublin

Saruman wrote: »

Is that even legal? How can they haul you off to a police station without touching you, and touching you is assault. The most they can do is follow you and see where you go while on the phone to the police..

Bus staff (and indeed rail and Luas staff) have power of arrest in relation to passengers and some offences relating to tickets so yes, it is legal.

Saruman

Interesting. Good to know.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Bus staff (and indeed rail and Luas staff) have power of arrest in relation to passengers and some offences relating to tickets so yes, it is legal.

They can also be sued for wrongful arrest and will be taken to the cleaners if they started arresting people on the street! this nonsense is just another of their bully-boy tactics to frighten people into thinking they have no rights!

Duiske

Spook_ie wrote: »

Do they not give you a spell in Mountjoy for the false address bit though, by charging you with something or other? If not, why not?

Ah, c'mon !! Considering some of the strokes pulled by people in this country who are still free to walk the streets, do you not think jailing someone for giving a false address to some jobsworth on a bus would be a tad over the top ?

Losty Dublin

Duiske wrote: »

Ah, c'mon !! Considering some of the strokes pulled by people in this country who are still free to walk the streets, do you not think jailing someone for giving a false address to some jobsworth on a bus would be a tad over the top ?

In fairness, he only asked if it was the case that you could be locked up for it; it is but it's very unlikely if it ever would come to it.

Tickityboo

Duiske wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

Do they not give you a spell in Mountjoy for the false address bit though, by charging you with something or other? If not, why not?

Ah, c'mon !! Considering some of the strokes pulled by people in this country who are still free to walk the streets, do you not think jailing someone for giving a false address to some jobsworth on a bus would be a tad over the top ?

So someone who is out catching thieves fare evading is a jobsworth!!!!!!
These thieves are undermining busworkers pay and working conditions and are part of the reason why honest fare paying passengers face ever increasing fares.
It is not a victimless crime. Sadly many people seem to be under that illusion.

AltAccount

foggy_lad wrote: »

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Bus staff (and indeed rail and Luas staff) have power of arrest in relation to passengers and some offences relating to tickets so yes, it is legal.

They can also be sued for wrongful arrest and will be taken to the cleaners if they started arresting people on the street! this nonsense is just another of their bully-boy tactics to frighten people into thinking they have no rights!

So they can arrest you, and also wrongfully arrest you, just like the Gardai.

Does the ability to arrest make you a bully, or just an ability to arrest if you work for a state transport company?

LXFlyer

foggy_lad wrote: »

They can also be sued for wrongful arrest and will be taken to the cleaners if they started arresting people on the street! this nonsense is just another of their bully-boy tactics to frighten people into thinking they have no rights!

So needless to say as a result of your train of thought someone evading the correct fare should not be hindered in any way whatsoever and should be subject to no penalty whatsoever if they give false information.

Frankly like virtually every one of your posts this is sensationalist nonsense.

Formation

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed as the government tax the bejaysus out of petrol.

What is a fair wage for someone to drive a bus? Should it be on a par with someone who spent 4 years in college and another 3 years to qualify at low wages in their profession? should it equal someone who did a 3 year apprenticeship to become an electrician or plumber at less than minimum wage?

You get a suitable driving license, do a short course I assume and do a job where there are many people qualified to do it and ye are blaming some lad who underpaid a fare by a few cent as the reason you earn what you do? A bit of perspective!

my point is not to villify the op because you are unhappy with your job.

pay the fine, there is no way out of that one but i dont agree with the people on the ground in dublin bus taking someones pps number.

AltAccount

Formation wrote: »

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed as the government tax the bejaysus out of petrol.

What is a fair wage for someone to drive a bus? Should it be on a par with someone who spent 4 years in college and another 3 years to qualify at low wages in their profession? should it equal someone who did a 3 year apprenticeship to become an electrician or plumber at less than minimum wage?

You get a suitable driving license, do a short course I assume and do a job where there are many people qualified to do it and ye are blaming some lad who underpaid a fare by a few cent as the reason you earn what you do? A bit of perspective!

my point is not to villify the op because you are unhappy with your job.

pay the fine, there is no way out of that one but i dont agree with the people on the ground in dublin bus taking someones pps number.

Nice rant :rolleyes:

Victor

Formation wrote: »

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

Some do, yes. Most don't.

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed

Dublin Bus subsidy is quite modest.

Low fares elsewhere tend to have huge subsidies.

LXFlyer

Formation wrote: »

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed as the government tax the bejaysus out of petrol.

What is a fair wage for someone to drive a bus? Should it be on a par with someone who spent 4 years in college and another 3 years to qualify at low wages in their profession? should it equal someone who did a 3 year apprenticeship to become an electrician or plumber at less than minimum wage?

You get a suitable driving license, do a short course I assume and do a job where there are many people qualified to do it and ye are blaming some lad who underpaid a fare by a few cent as the reason you earn what you do? A bit of perspective!

my point is not to villify the op because you are unhappy with your job.

pay the fine, there is no way out of that one but i dont agree with the people on the ground in dublin bus taking someones pps number.

Government subsidies were at a much lower level than most other European cities. They are now being cut even more - the gap has to be bridged somehow - otherwise services will have to be cut. The company has like other bus operators had the Fuel Duty exemption removed.

As it is people can avail of the LEAP card, Travel 90 ticket or the taxsaver scheme to pay lower fares.

I object to people such as the OP not paying the correct fare as fare evasion will only result in you and I having to pay higher fares as a result. DB are quite right to have raised the standard fare to €100 - it will act as a more serious deterrent.

If you have a problem with the fare levels then I suggest you contact your local government TD as it is the government policy decisions that are pushing fares up.

Saruman

London buses are £2.20 (cash) which is about €2.80
Dublin bus fares very depending on distance but €2.15 - €2.65 is what you are likely to pay unless taking a short journey.
Now since £2.20 is a hell of a lot more money to a Brit than €2.65 is to us, it seems to me that Dublin is a lot cheaper than London?

These are cash fares now, both cities have pre-paid options that work out a lot cheaper.

Carroller16

Formation wrote: »

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe

Sure why would it matter if it was €1,000 if you have paid the correct fare?

mickydoomsux

lxflyer wrote: »

So needless to say as a result of your train of thought someone evading the correct fare should not be hindered in any way whatsoever and should be subject to no penalty whatsoever if they give false information.

Frankly like virtually every one of your posts this is sensationalist nonsense.

Foggy is hilarious. In one thread he'll call for public transport workers to be sacked for not doing what he considers to be their job and then in another he'll call them bullies for actually doing the job they are paid to do.

As for the OP, you got caught out so man up and pay up. You obviously knew you had done something wrong because you gave a fake address.

Tickityboo

Formation wrote: »

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

the fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed as the government tax the bejaysus out of petrol.

What is a fair wage for someone to drive a bus? Should it be on a par with someone who spent 4 years in college and another 3 years to qualify at low wages in their profession? should it equal someone who did a 3 year apprenticeship to become an electrician or plumber at less than minimum wage?

You get a suitable driving license, do a short course I assume and do a job where there are many people qualified to do it and ye are blaming some lad who underpaid a fare by a few cent as the reason you earn what you do? A bit of perspective!

my point is not to villify the op because you are unhappy with your job.

pay the fine, there is no way out of that one but i dont agree with the people on the ground in dublin bus taking someones pps number.

Firstly I never said I was unhappy in my job.

Secondly I would not class underpaying (stealing) by 75cents as just a few cents multiply that by a few thousand every day then week,month,year and it adds up to a lot of money!!!

Bus drivers have to start on a five year pay
scale.
They also have to start off as a spare driver which means only knowing what starting and finishing times you have on a day to day basis.
Not great for trying to have any sort of family life.
This used to last about three to four years before you got marked in on your own route.
But now due to cut backs has increased to about ten years or more. So virtually no worklife balance.

I doubt plumbers or electricians have to put up with verbal and physical abuse on a daily basis which is only on the increase as far as I can see.

That's my perspective!!!!!

Hilly Bill

I cant see why this is still getting attention seeing that the OP has the same thread in AH. Its one of them "Lets sit back and see what happens" threads.

mikemac1

Should have acted like an aggressive skanger OP

From my experience of Irish public transport the quiet people get fined and the aggressive people can do whatever the hell they want

The_Wrecker

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I cant see why this is still getting attention seeing that the OP has the same thread in AH. Its one of them "Lets sit back and see what happens" threads.

Since getting his fine amount wrong i think it is one of them threads....

AlekSmart

Formation wrote: »

Some people here must work for dublin bus.

The fares for dublin bus are some of the highest in europe yet have to be subsidsed as the government tax the bejaysus out of petrol.

You get a suitable driving license, do a short course I assume and do a job where there are many people qualified to do it and ye are blaming some lad who underpaid a fare by a few cent as the reason you earn what you do? A bit of perspective!

My point is not to villify the op because you are unhappy with your job.

Pay the fine, there is no way out of that one but i dont agree with the people on the ground in dublin bus taking someones pps number.

I'm a reasonably happy Dublin Busdriver.

London £Stg 2.30 (€2.90)
Paris €1.90
Berlin €2.40
Nottingham £1.70 (Dog Day Ticket £1.00)
Liverpool £Stg 2.00 (€2.50)

Dublin Bus Standard Adult Fares range from €1.40 to €2.65 and,for many,allow a far cheaper journey than many of the Flat Fare systems in use elsewhere in Europe.

Even cheaper fares are available through Leapcard (€1.25 to €2.40) with the 50c City Centre Fare representing significant value for short journeys in the CC.

I am not villifying anybody,but you cannot give out about Busfares in Dublin being expensive whilst coincidentally nodding through somebody deciding to pay 65% of the correct fare,presumably it's ok then for the operator to retrieve that 35% from some more comlpliant passenger/s ?

The OP decided to pay €1.90 for a journey with a cost of €2.65.

That is a significant 75c underpayment representing c.35%,which,to me,is more than the "few cent" implied in the above post.

Accoding to the OP's priginal account,he produced several forms of ID including his Social Services Card and his Student Card from which his address was noted.

It appears perfectly reasonable that if a DSP Card is proffered then it's details should be noted down,thats what it's for surely ?

He then says he gave a "Fake" address,presumably different from whichever one was on the two ID cards....

The reality is that ordinary,compliant passengers who bother to do the small bit of prep are constantly being panhandled to compensate for the likes of this lad's twittery.

Thats what I'd call a bit of perspective

Formation

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm a reasonably happy Dublin Busdriver.

London £Stg 2.30 (?2.90) Paris ?1.90 Berlin ?2.40 Nottingham £1.70 (Dog Day Ticket £1.00) Liverpool £Stg 2.00 (?2.50) Dublin Bus Standard Adult Fares range from ?1.40 to ?2.65 and,for many,allow a far cheaper journey than many of the Flat Fare systems in use elsewhere in Europe. Even cheaper fares are available through Leapcard (?1.25 to ?2.40) with the 50c City Centre Fare representing significant value for short journeys in the CC. I am not villifying anybody,but you cannot give out about Busfares in Dublin being expensive whilst coincidentally nodding through somebody deciding to pay 65% of the correct fare,presumably it's ok then for the operator to retrieve that 35% from some more comlpliant passenger/s ? The OP decided to pay ?1.90 for a journey with a cost of ?2.65. That is a significant 75c underpayment representing c.35%,which,to me,is more than the "few cent" implied in the above post. Accoding to the OP's priginal account,he produced several forms of ID including his Social Services Card and his Student Card from which his address was noted. It appears perfectly reasonable that if a DSP Card is proffered then it's details should be noted down,thats what it's for surely ? He then says he gave a "Fake" address,presumably different from whichever one was on the two ID cards.... The reality is that ordinary,compliant passengers who bother to do the small bit of prep are constantly being panhandled to compensate for the likes of this lad's twittery. Thats what I'd call a bit of perspective

london, paris and berlin? You just picked a group of the most expensive cities in the world to compare the bus fare.

before you carry on making this a him v us thing, i doubt if every under fare payer paid full fare that we would get cheaper fares considering the subsidies.

AlekSmart

Formation wrote: »

london, paris and berlin? You just picked a group of the most expensive cities in the world to compare the bus fare.

before you carry on making this a him v us thing, i doubt if every under fare payer paid full fare that we would get cheaper fares considering the subsidies.

SO..?

They are all Capital Cities in their own right,as is Dublin.

Nottingham and Liverpool I included just for balance,but you can take any amount of European Cities and do your comparison which will usually show us occupying a mid range quite a distance from "Most Expensive".

Addditionally in most other juristictions,outside of the UK and Ireland,Public Transport is far differently regarded and funded.

If I were questioning a resident of any European City regarding Fare levels,my follow-on questions would be along the lines of...

What is your general Taxation rate ?
Do you pay a Local Tax ?
Do you pay Water Rates ?
Do you pay Property Tax/Rates ?

There's a substantial and detailed report commissioned by the Dept of Transport and carried out by UCD in 2000 here...

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/2567.pdf

I would agree completely with you that the issue is not "Him vs Us",it's far more focused than that,with lots going on as to why an individual should feel entitled to ignore or otherwise defy the simpler payment systems and be outraged when penalized for it.

Is it the suggestion then that everybody simply pay their own notional amount for Fares in the full confidence that "The Subsidy" will see them right ?

Working on from that,are we to then take it that these folks will remain silent when National and Local Taxation rates are brought up to the mainstream European Levels which allow these foreign folks to enjoy the far "Cheaper" fares which are our "entitlement"...?

I'm not seeing this circle being squared anytime soon,as long as we continue with our confidence that "Stuff" can be accquired and provided on the cheap or better still for FREE :eek:

doubletrouble?

mikemac1 wrote: »

Should have acted like an aggressive skanger OP
From my experience of Irish public transport the quiet people get fined and the aggressive people can do whatever the hell they want

yes mike they may well think they can do whatever the hell they want, but think back to all those scumbags you've seen acting the so called hard man. theres only been one inspector checking the bus.
the O.P. stated 3 inspectors got on. what most of you fail to realise is that they are the zero tolerance unit. one up ,one down and one usually at the door. they are there for a reason and that is to back back each other up in case of an aggressive skangers as mikemac puts it. also what all of you dont realise as well is there is always a staff car following the bus with another one or two inspectors. so as mike puts it please be my guest and act like a skanger . i can guarantee you this. you will not get very far.every fare evader caught by these guys and doesn't pay the fine will end up in court.there is no if's and's or but's. this unit takes no prisoners when it comes to fare evasion.
but sure o.p. it was only 75c. but whats it to you. only thing is dublin bus are loosing millions because of fare evasion. they are cutting routes left right and centre. people in different areas were protesting because their bus services was either being cut or done away with. bus drivers are screaming for more inspectors to hit the fare evaders hard. dublin bus want to hit the drivers terms and conditions because they are loosing millions. most of what i have said all comes full circle. and quite frankly it's boils down to FARE EVASION.

Tarabuses

Fare evasion = theft, simple as.

zef

OP i suggest you pay the fine and save yourself a day in court.
A relative of mine now has a conviction and a fine (175e) to pay after court, for not producing his student ID on Dublin Bus after paying the student fare.
It's not worth the hassle.

karlitob

zef wrote: »

OP i suggest you pay the fine and save yourself a day in court.
A relative of mine now has a conviction and a fine (175e) to pay after court, for not producing his student ID on Dublin Bus after paying the student fare.
It's not worth the hassle.

There's def more to that story than you might know.

Why would the student not show a valid student ID at Dublin Bus HQ? If he didn't have one, why did he not pay the fine before court? This doesn't make sense.

Victor

Please don't drag up old thread for no good reason.

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