Accident Help

germanhelp

Sorry for this, but I don't know where to ask this question.

I borrowed a car while in Germany with the permission of the owner and I was involved in an accident (lucky me). Now, it was in a car park and I hit the back of the car - no one was hurt. The owner wasn't present - it was a car park, so I left and went to the police station to report this.

Now, I reported all details to the Police and they took it all down, however today I learn that I must not leave the scene of an accident in Germany without calling the Police and it's being treated as a "hit-and-run". Even though I presented myself to the Police the law is the law and I will be fined a large penalty based on my earnings! Ok, this is the local law, I will comply with it.

But, my question now relates to the insurance, will is be considered null and void? There's a lot of conversations going around me here but all in German more advanced that I know and I'm not getting any clear answers.

Being up front I am not trying to avoid any consequences, it was an honest mistake, hands-up. But I'd like to brace myself for what might happen.

The owner of the car is now outside the country and not contactable.

It's very specific, I know, but I am hoping someone will know!

Thanks.

mdebets

The insurance is normally covering the car, so you would have been covered, if you would have waited at the scene. However as you left the scene of the accident, which is a criminal offence in Germany, they can refuse to pay out or increase your excess.

For the fine, expect at least a month's wages. You will also most likely loose your driving licence for a month (only for Germany, they will stamp it in your licence) and acquire 5 to 7 points (German points) on your licence.

germanhelp

mdebets wrote: »

The insurance is normally covering the car, so you would have been covered, if you would have waited at the scene. However as you left the scene of the accident, which is a criminal offence in Germany, they can refuse to pay out or increase your excess.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not resident in Germany only visting, my license is Irish, I will be gone in less than a week. But I would like to sort this out for all parties, including the driver that suffered property damages, however, the cost estimates are very high (circa 11,000 euro!) - seems incredible I know, I was gob smacked at the prices - I simply don't have this money.

So, as it's seen as a criminal offence, the Ins Company are not obliged to pay out? Could intent be considered? - i.e. there was no malice

MugMugs

germanhelp wrote: »

mdebets wrote: »

The insurance is normally covering the car, so you would have been covered, if you would have waited at the scene. However as you left the scene of the accident, which is a criminal offence in Germany, they can refuse to pay out or increase your excess.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not resident in Germany only visting, my license is Irish, I will be gone in less than a week. But I would like to sort this out for all parties, including the driver that suffered property damages, however, the cost estimates are very high (circa 11,000 euro!) - seems incredible I know, I was gob smacked at the prices - I simply don't have this money.

So, as it's seen as a criminal offence, the Ins Company are not obliged to pay out? Could intent be considered? - i.e. there was no malice

Were you using your Irish third party extension? How were you insured?

germanhelp

Antares wrote: »

Were you using your Irish third party extension? How were you insured?

The vehicle I was driving had an "open driver" policy. Prior to me driving, it was checked with the German insurance company that it was OK for me to drive and it was ok.

Ireland 3rd party driving other cars, doesn't extend to outside the ROI.

Doom

germanhelp wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I am not resident in Germany only visting, my license is Irish, I will be gone in less than a week. But I would like to sort this out for all parties, including the driver that suffered property damages, however, the cost estimates are very high (circa 11,000 euro!) - seems incredible I know, I was gob smacked at the prices - I simply don't have this money.

So, as it's seen as a criminal offence, the Ins Company are not obliged to pay out? Could intent be considered? - i.e. there was no malice

Do not tell them how much you really earn, and tell them you have four kids and a dependant mother....hopefully this will reduce the way they calculate the fine... good luck.

germanhelp

Doom wrote: »

Do not tell them how much you really earn, and tell them you have four kids and a dependant mother....hopefully this will reduce the way they calculate the fine... good luck.

Thank you for this. In honestly, I've three dependents and my wife is not working, so it was reduced from a full month's pay BUT the final figure stll hurts. Apparently this will then go to a judge for him/her to review in 2-3 months and may be reduced further.

I suppose my concern now is the insurance, and the vehicles, if the insurance refuses to pay, people are out of pocket and I can't afford to pay the lump sums.

mdebets

germanhelp wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I am not resident in Germany only visting, my license is Irish, I will be gone in less than a week. But I would like to sort this out for all parties, including the driver that suffered property damages, however, the cost estimates are very high (circa 11,000 euro!) - seems incredible I know, I was gob smacked at the prices - I simply don't have this money.

So, as it's seen as a criminal offence, the Ins Company are not obliged to pay out? Could intent be considered? - i.e. there was no malice

It doesn't matter, if you are not living in Germany, or only have an Irish licence, you can still loose your licence over this. This will only be valid in Germany and you will get a stamp in your licence saying it isn't valid from .. until. You can still drive with it in Ireland so. It's theoretically possible, that a court will not convict you, however with the high damage that seems to be unlikely (a court judgement I found puts the limit to 1300€). It is also likely, that the fine will be much higher and you can loose your licence up to 3 months or even get it suspended fully, but I'm not quite sure, how that works with a non-German licence, if it is just a stamp like for the 1 or 3 month suspension.

I did some more googleing in regards to the insurance company and found different opinions, from 2500€ to 5000€ excess to having to pay everything.

mdebets

germanhelp wrote: »

I suppose my concern now is the insurance, and the vehicles, if the insurance refuses to pay, people are out of pocket and I can't afford to pay the lump sums.

That won't be the case. The insurance will pay out the claim, but will take the money off you afterwards.

germanhelp

mdebets wrote: »

I did some more googleing in regards to the insurance company and found different opinions, from 2500€ to 5000€ excess to having to pay everything.

Again, thank you for you reply and efforts in searching.

With an Irish license, I assume the point/convictions cannot be applied as there is no inter country agreement. The Police believe the fine will be the end of it, unless the judge directs more, but by the time that happens, I won't be around in Germany.

I suppose the insurance claim will be on a case-by-case basis, but if they could refuse to pay out for anything, why would they

germanhelp

mdebets wrote: »

That won't be the case. The insurance will pay out the claim, but will take the money off you afterwards.

How will they get the money from me? I don't have it. Not trying to me smart, will they take it from the owner of the car?

AltAccount

germanhelp wrote: »

Sorry for this, but I don't know where to ask this question.

I borrowed a car while in Germany with the permission of the owner and I was involved in an accident (lucky me). Now, it was in a car park and I hit the back of the car - no one was hurt. The owner wasn't present - it was a car park, so I left and went to the police station to report this.

Now, I reported all details to the Police and they took it all down, however today I learn that I must not leave the scene of an accident in Germany without calling the Police and it's being treated as a "hit-and-run". Even though I presented myself to the Police the law is the law and I will be fined a large penalty based on my earnings! Ok, this is the local law, I will comply with it.

But, my question now relates to the insurance, will is be considered null and void? There's a lot of conversations going around me here but all in German more advanced that I know and I'm not getting any clear answers.

Being up front I am not trying to avoid any consequences, it was an honest mistake, hands-up. But I'd like to brace myself for what might happen.

The owner of the car is now outside the country and not contactable.

It's very specific, I know, but I am hoping someone will know!

Thanks.

IMHO you were insured at the time of the accident and so you're fine for that.

Separately, you left the scene of an accident and there may be legal consequences, but I don't see how this would retrospectively remove your insurance cover.

mdebets

germanhelp wrote: »

With an Irish license, I assume the point/convictions cannot be applied as there is no inter country agreement. The Police believe the fine will be the end of it, unless the judge directs more, but by the time that happens, I won't be around in Germany.

German points can be applied to any non-German licence, they will however only be valid in Germany. You can loose your non-German licence in Germany, again only valid in Germany and you will get a stamp in your licence, stating from when to when you are not allowed to drive. I'm not quite sure, how it works for non-German licences, if you get a full suspension and would have to do your driving test again (plus some additional tests) to get a new licence.

If the judge convicts you and you loose your licence, you have to sent it to Germany, to get this stamp applied. If you don't do this, you will be charged with driving without licence, the next time the police in Germany checks your licence,

mdebets

germanhelp wrote: »

How will they get the money from me? I don't have it. Not trying to me smart, will they take it from the owner of the car?

You can pay a monthly amount until it's paid off.

mdebets

AltAccount wrote: »

Separately, you left the scene of an accident and there may be legal consequences, but I don't see how this would retrospectively remove your insurance cover.

Because you have certain duties towards the insurance company and the op neglected them. So it's all legal. There are also court cases confirming that it is legal.

AltAccount

mdebets wrote: »

Because you have certain duties towards the insurance company and the op neglected them. So it's all legal. There are also court cases confirming that it is legal.

I guess they need to contact the insurance company then and explain the situation.

germanhelp

AltAccount wrote: »

IMHO you were insured at the time of the accident and so you're fine for that.

That seems logical, but I am learning more about the essence of German law and I can only hope this is the way it works.

I believe the fine will settle the legal aspect, again, I am not sure.

mdebets wrote: »

If the judge convicts you and you loose your licence, you have to sent it to Germany, to get this stamp applied. If you don't do this, you will be charged with driving without licence, the next time the police in Germany checks your licence,

Understood - I assume this will only pass if the Court directs this?


I keep repeating, but again, thank you all!

germanhelp

AltAccount wrote: »

I guess they need to contact the insurance company then and explain the situation.

The process is underway, but they want assessors, etc, and are saying nothing.

MugMugs

germanhelp wrote: »

Ireland 3rd party driving other cars, doesn't extend to outside the ROI.

Yes it does.

germanhelp

Antares wrote: »

Yes it does.

Not for me with Aviva it doesn't. I checked today and on page 3 of my policy with them is specifically states only within ROI.

MugMugs

germanhelp wrote: »

Antares wrote: »

Yes it does.

Not for me with Aviva it doesn't. I checked today and on page 3 of my policy with them is specifically states only within ROI.

Accepted but with some it does.