Anti social behaviour eviction - what happens if they refuse to leave?

gizmofire@gmail

My apologies as this is my first post - I have a question that I sincerely hope someone can answer for me, been searching the net all day and can't find the relevant answer.

Am living in private rented accommodation. Had some issues with neighbours, they got aggressive and started harrassing us, Gards got involved, harrassment charges are being sought against the perpetrator, technically he shouldn't even be on the premises as he is merely in a relationship with the leaseholder. He's been living there a few months at this stage though, all his stuff is here. He says that she is his wife - but depending on who he talks to they aren't married yet.
He denies that he's living there, but he's got a key and has been there every night for the past 3 months.

They were served notice for antisocial behaviour (him threatening us an the landlord for being given a warning about noise levels). He made more threats last week and assaulted me, so they were given 7 days last Wednesday.

I had been hoping they'd be leaving today, but the landlord said that technically they have til tomorrow. She (the leaseholder) has been avoiding the landlords calls all day. They haven't moved anything either.

They reckon throughout this that they are the victims and that we are liars - despite the fact that we have recordings of the threats which the Gards have heard. I have a horrid sinking feeling that they will do their best to avoid leaving.

So my question is, what happens if they do refuse to leave?
The Gards have offered to supervise the eviction, but they are only there for breach of the peace. The Gards said we may need a court order to get them out - any ideas how much longer I have to live upstairs from someone who has been harrassing me?
Can't afford to move, have a really good relationship with my landlord and he's been really good throughout all of this (this guy threatened the landlords family too). Surely they can't have any rights to stay?

TwoShedsJackson

'He who forsees disaster suffers it twice over' - don't worry yet about what happens if they don't leave, wait and see what they do.

If they don't go the landlord will have to take further action, but this is not something you have control over.

chickensoup

this is a pain in the ass and unfortunately the tenant hold all the cards.

I am a landlord with a very similar problem and in essence when the tenant refuses to leave the landlord will have to lodge a dispute with the quango PRTB, the PRTB will take up to 8 months to arrange a hearing. Then the PRTB will take a couple of weeks to make a ruling and more than likely the tenants will be told they have to leave.

If they still don't leave, the landlord will have to go to courts to get an eviction order and failing that employ the services of the sherrif to have them removed.

gizmofire@gmail

Thank you for your replies. They are still here, and they spent a chunk of this afternoon banging on their ceiling aggressively while the power was out..
Called the Gards 9 hours ago as we were instructed to do by the Gard dealing with the complaint / pursuing harassment charges. Have called twice more since but they didn't get a chance to get to us, I'm guessing the combination of the reduced number of Gards available and the Katie Taylor win meant they were too busy.

Apparently their solicitor has advised the landlord that they will leave on tuesday.. I find it amusingly irritating that they get to make death threats and behave in an aggressive manner - yet we have to tiptoe around them and allow them to move on at *their* leisure.. There's definitely something a tad askew in the way the system works!!

gizmofire@gmail

Ok.. We now have a huge problem.

They have been refused rent allowance on the grounds of their antisocial behaviour, which I agree with, why should people with that little respect for those around them have help towards their rent. But as a result, they cannot find alternative accommodation. Threshold advised them to stay (I'm guessing they didn't tell Threshold how they've been behaving).

Meanwhile he has been shouting at his ceiling at 4 am every morning, banging the ceiling at random with what I presume is a broom handle, bragging loudly about looking for guns on the Internet and how we can't touch him in *his* house (he was never even on the lease, it was his girlfriend who actually lived there).

Landlord has initiated legal proceedings today, but he's not optimistic as they will not likely turf them out with nowhere to go. Problem is - we have nowhere to go either. Had the Gards out again last night - considering he was given a formal caution the last time the Gards were called they didn't do anything, and he continued causing a disturbance after they left.

I appreciate the reasons why this rule is in place, but what's the point in having the shorter notice periods in place for extreme antisocial behaviour if there's no enforcement? Likewise with formal cautions..
My apologies if I sound narky, it's a terrible introduction to a forum but as I'm sure you can appreciate, I'm still waiting to see when my rights as a lease holding, rent paying tenant get to be respected.. So far the only people who seem to have any rights are the ones making my life a misery.

Merch

If the guy is not a tenant, then I think none of the stuff about getting court orders or contacting the PRTB apply to him, but apply to the person that leases, is this a seperate unit or a division of the same property like a house

monkey8

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

Can't afford to move,

Why can't you afford to move. Surely you can get another rental at a similiar price.
Seems like a fairly obvious solution if you are a private rental.

monkey8

monkey8 wrote: »

Why can't you afford to move. Surely you can get another rental at a similiar price.
Seems like a fairly obvious solution if you are a private rental.

To be fair, I don't see why the OP should be the one who has to move in this situation. Unfortunately it might come to it though.

gizmofire@gmail

It's a house split into an upper and lower apartment. And no, the standard answer we kept getting was "she's entitled to have visitors" (yeah, ones that move all their stuff in and start saying its their house).

Reason we can't afford to move is because we are struggling enough to pay our rent as it is, and the cheapest place available in our area is €200 more - the CWO is not going to give my partner rent supplement for that.

Edited to add - our current rent is at the maximum permitted level..

Merch

Karsini wrote: »

To be fair, I don't see why the OP should be the one who has to move in this situation. Unfortunately it might come to it though.

It might not be fair but it may be necessary. Its not much, but they should be thankful they dont own their property.

OP is it a house share or something or a seperate unit?

jd

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

Ok.. We now have a huge problem.

They have been refused rent allowance on the grounds of their antisocial behaviour, which I agree with, why should people with that little respect for those around them have help towards their rent. But as a result, they cannot find alternative accommodation. Threshold advised them to stay (I'm guessing they didn't tell Threshold how they've been behaving).

Why not go to the same threshold office, tell them where you live , the problem, and ask for advice?

dave1982

Looks like the people downstairs are staying where they are, sadly it looks like you will have to put up with them for x amount of months ubtil they are evicted by a court which they will then appeal or move out.It's totally unfair but that's how it is sadly.

athtrasna

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

He denies that he's living there, but he's got a key and has been there every night for the past 3 months.

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

They have been refused rent allowance on the grounds of their antisocial behaviour, which I agree with, why should people with that little respect for those around them have help towards their rent.

I'm confused. If he denies living there, surely he could not be in receipt of Rent Allowance for the address? Was the unit rented to her as a single person?

Surely the council would have to find them emergency accommodation if they don't get RA?

Funnyonion79

If the main guy who's causing mist of te trouble isn't on the lease, can the landlord not get the Gardai to arrest him for trespassing, as technically he's not supposed to be staying in the house?

It doesn't matter if the person on the lease is saying he's her guest or visitor - surely if he's not on the lease, then the landlord can technically get the Gardai to turf him out...?

gizmofire@gmail

Yeah, we asked the Gards can the not have him out for trespassing and we were told the landlord was in charge of that, and the landlord was told stay the hell away or they'll have you over a barrel.

I guess I have to hope that all the extra evidence this guy has handed me over the past few days goes someway to speeding up the DPPs decision to arrest him for harassment..

It does say that where there is a threat to life (which there have been, several) the PRTB will speed things up, mind you - in that instance they were talking about the landlord threatening the tenant - they don't seem to have anything for when it's the other way around..

Funnyonion79

Yes it would have to be the landlord that reports him to the Gardai for trespassing and the landlord has to be the one pressing charges....

Who told the landlord that the tenants would have them over a barrel if they got this guy arrested for trespassing? I would still try and put serious pressure on the landlord to consider this option.

It's bad enough when the troublemaker is an official tenant - then you have to tread very carefully but if the troublemaker shouldn't even be in the house, then it's a very different scenario and one where you actually do have options. Talk to the landlord again and see if they're willing to consider the trespassing route....

J0hnick

I was just about to post a new thread till I saw this, I'm in a similar situation except

1) I haven't been assaulted yet (thank god)
2) I actually own my property, not renting and I'm in about €40,000 negative equity, living next door to neighbors from hell and cant move even if I wanted to.

The guards have been called to the house a few times for various things, mostly domestic violence, they searched the place for drugs at least once as well. I have a work from home job in a call center, and Ive had a few customers ask me "what was that ?" when the guy next door gets drunk/high and decides to throw stuff around or beat up his wife or kids.

Their landlord has been promising me for months that they would be gone by now, as they owe him money and have completely destroyed the place, the house is over crowded and their kids having been going to the toilet in my back garden as their is only 1 toilet in the house. My girlfriend of over 4 years was going to move in with me before they came along but cant as long as they are here, she works nights and the noise from them fighting means she cant sleep during the day.

Their landlord has now told me today that he gave them their notice but they told him to "F*** off" ?. He's also saying he's going to get the ESB meter put back in his name, surely if he owns the place the meters in his name right ?. Does it sound like he's giving me the run around ?.

J0hnick

J0hnick wrote: »

He's also saying he's going to get the ESB meter put back in his name, surely if he owns the place the meters in his name right ?. Does it sound like he's giving me the run around ?.

Not necessarily, the meter would only be in his name while the house is unoccupied. The meter would be transferred to the tenant's name while they are there.

gizmofire@gmail

I know this isn't exactly helpful Johnick, but you have my total sympathy, let's both hope something can be done soon.
My partner is just cleaning up the audio of some recordings we have taken of this guy talking about procuring a gun in the local area.
I seriously hope that this is just fighting talk, because that's really quite frightening..

Milk & Honey

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

I know this isn't exactly helpful Johnick, but you have my total sympathy, let's both hope something can be done soon.
My partner is just cleaning up the audio of some recordings we have taken of this guy talking about procuring a gun in the local area.
I seriously hope that this is just fighting talk, because that's really quite frightening..

You should make sure to keep the original recording and write down everything that is recorded on it. You need to be able to say that you heard what happened and you wrote it down using the recording as backup.

gizmofire@gmail

Don't worry, we have.. Have been keeping many recordings throughout this and the Gards will be taking my phone to get the originals as well as the ones were trying to filter out the background noise on right now..

Kosseegan

gizmofire@gmail wrote: »

Don't worry, we have.. Have been keeping many recordings throughout this and the Gards will be taking my phone to get the originals as well as the ones were trying to filter out the background noise on right now..

The point is you should be writing it down. Written contemporaneous notes are admissible in evidence, recordings on their own are not.They are only admissible as a backup to the written notes.

gizmofire@gmail

Ooh, thank you I did not know that. I can't click on the thank link (I am a noob, I freely admit it!) so thank you!