Clerk of works

FunkyCoW

there is a construction professional who independently supervises new builds and has done for centuries - the Clerk of Works. They are the only professionals suited to this role - because that is what they do. Architects, engineers design, understand laws, regulations, codes and standards. Technicians produce drawings based on technical knowledge. Trouble is they don't really know what actually happens during the build process - the correct use of materials, spotting builders shortcuts, identifying substitution of materials, differentiating between good and bad practice, and most importantly being able to stand up to bully-boy-builders and ensure that the clients get what they paid for.

Clerks of Works do not require additional training to inspect construction works - the knowledge base, skills, experience and professional qualifications are already there. The solution is already out there

muffler

Here you go now FunkyCoW. You were off topic in the other thread.

Enjoy yourself

FunkyCoW

no - I read through the thread and thought I'd add my contribution. Obviously it didn't agree with the Cad Monkey agenda so it was shifted.........

Poor Uncle Tom

FunkyCoW infracted for being uncivil.

You're a new poster here so read the forum charter before posting again or you will not be allowed post here for long. Attack the post not the poster and stay on-topic.

DOCARCH

I appreciate the value of a CoW - I wish they were mandatory! But, at the end of the day, they cannot sign off the build (at least in terms of the proposed BC Amendments).

In addition a CoW is only likely to be appointed (i.e. paid for by the client) on larger projects. Hard enough for an architect to get fees for the construction stage of a project for domestic works/new houses let alone the client then paying for somebody to be on site full time for the duration of the project - 6 month build = half a years income to be paid to the CoW?

FunkyCoW

the proposed inspector has to be paid as well

Supertech

The fact remains that under the proposals, unless a CoW is also an architect, engineer or building surveyor then he or she can't sign the necessary certificates set out under the regulations.

muffler

FunkyCoW wrote: »

there is a construction professional who independently supervises new builds and has done for centuries - the Clerk of Works.

Just for the record can you confirm if you are a cow just so we have a level field here.

FunkyCoW wrote: »

They are the only professionals suited to this role - because that is what they do

Strange! I never seen anyone say that before.

FunkyCoW wrote: »

Architects, engineers design, understand laws, regulations, codes and standards. Technicians produce drawings based on technical knowledge. Trouble is they don't really know what actually happens during the build process - the correct use of materials, spotting builders shortcuts, identifying substitution of materials, differentiating between good and bad practice

Oh really! So they all sit in the office from 9 to 5 and are clueless as to what happens on the site....that is what you are saying, no?

FunkyCoW wrote: »

and most importantly being able to stand up to bully-boy-builders and ensure that the clients get what they paid for.

So the time that I inspected a job where the window supplier refused to accept that the windows weren't fire escape, no safety glass in floor level glazing units, used the wrong handles, etc etc and after he referred to me as being a piece of ****e and I pinned him to a wall and had to be pulled off by 2 other lads and his solicitor was then on the ball to me you are telling me that I imagined all this and that I dont stand up for my clients or myself? I must take a reality check some time.

FunkyCoW wrote: »

Clerks of Works do not require additional training to inspect construction works

Additional training? What does the initial training consist of? And unlike architects/engineers/technicians who embark regularly on keeping up to speed (at a substantial cost) with new regulations, products and methodology the cow doesnt have to do this. Thats a great bloody job to have.

FunkyCoW wrote: »

the knowledge base, skills, experience and professional qualifications are already there.

What professional qualifications would these be?

FunkyCoW wrote: »

The solution is already out there

It is but not in the way you think.

muffler

Supertech wrote: »

The fact remains that under the proposals, unless a CoW is also an architect, engineer or building surveyor then he or she can't sign the necessary certificates set out under the regulations.

Shusshh you

mail

INSTITUTE OF CLERKS OF WORKS AND CONSTRUCTION INSPECTORATE
is a professional body in the UK which has many Irish members. You must have a Degree in Construction and many years experience working on site as a supervisor to gain entry. These are people who have started working on tools and progressed to supervisor while at the same time attending college to gain their degrees and are well up on the regulations as any Architect. They would also have seen all the shortcuts that are taken many times before and would be vigilant for them. Most members would have Thirty or more years experience which is whats needed. I am not referring to the proposed changes for certification, just that the inspectors are already here and there needs to be a government body set up to cordinate inspections as in the UK.

Mellor

FunkyCoW wrote: »

Clerks of Works do not require additional training to inspect construction works - the knowledge base, skills, experience and professional qualifications are already there. The solution is already out there

Excuse my ignorance, but what professional qualifications does one need to call themselves a CoW in Ireland. As far as I am aware it is an unregulated title.
Historically, one learned the trade through experience, which was fine in the past. But with legalities and paper trails increasing, its not enough any more minute. The Institute of Clerk of Works in Ireland only require sufficient experience. While, experience will render somebody capable, such a subjective means of entry to an unregulated body, will never stand up legally and isn't suitable for certifying work.

A CoW is a valuable role to a project. Nobody should underestimate the importance of on site supervision. But you should make the jump from here to certifying work, currently its not possible, and without control on the title, it won't be.

mail wrote:

INSTITUTE OF CLERKS OF WORKS AND CONSTRUCTION INSPECTORATE
is a professional body in the UK which has many Irish members. You must have a Degree in Construction and many years experience working on site as a supervisor to gain entry. These are people who have started working on tools and progressed to supervisor while at the same time attending college to gain their degrees and are well up on the regulations as any Architect. They would also have seen all the shortcuts that are taken many times before and would be vigilant for them. Most members would have Thirty or more years experience which is whats needed. I am not referring to the proposed changes for certification, just that the inspectors are already here and there needs to be a government body set up to cordinate inspections as in the UK.

A degree changes the situation from a legal standpoint, regulation, insurance, etc. But, construction degree is quite vague. The qualifications of other professions would fall under that umbrella.
It still boils down to my point above, unless the role and title is regulated it won' be possible.

kkelliher

FunkyCoW wrote: »

They are the only professionals suited to this role - because that is what they do

Was the same not previously said about bankers, regulators and politicians and we still ended up in the crappier..........

focus_mad

Supertech wrote: »

The fact remains that under the proposals, unless a CoW is also an architect, engineer or building surveyor then he or she can't sign the necessary certificates set out under the regulations.

You you remembered me

Am I right in saying a CoW is more of a UK profession?