Birth mother needs information about adoption

lillytop

Hi,

I'm 4 months pregnant and can't keep the baby, for personal reasons. I want to try a private adoption agency or even find a couple to start the process. I live in Dublin and need information as soon as possible because I'm running out of time.

Thank you so much for helping me.

Moonbeam

Sorry to hear about your situation.
Domestic adoptions in Ireland are a rarity these days so there will be alot of people delighted with the chance.
If you contact Barnardos they will be able to guide you in the right direction.

kathy finn

hi lillytop,
This might seem like the end of the world to you and adoption might seem like the only answer at the moment but it not, there are lots of support for you if u decide to keep your baby, i found your post heartbreaking and if i can help in any way please pm me. kathy.

culchiewoman

Lillytop, I'm going to give you an honest answer, which may be painful and you may not like it -- but it's honest. I'm a bit puzzled by your given reason for not keeping your child. You say you "can't" keep and parent your child. Why not? "Personal reasons" don't give me enough background to give you good information. Reasons like poverty, incest, child conceived out of rape, currently doing drugs, in a violent relationship, parental/religious/societal pressure -- none of those are good enough reasons to want to give your child over to adoption, sorry. Not today. I'll elaborate on that more.

Let's back up four months and explore what's happened here. In an informed age of birth control awareness, where even in Ireland, one can easily travel to the UK for abortion, it is inconceivable (pardon the bad pun) that women still find themselves facing untimely pregnancies. But let's assume the old "got caught up in the moment and forgot the condom" scenario happened, or it was a case of rape or incest (still, there's always the 'morning after' pill, etc.), you are now pregnant despite all of the choices to not be that are available today.

What about personal accountability? You are carrying a child, regardless of how it was conceived or the circumstances, and have obviously made the choice to carry it to term. Having made that choice, you now have an obligation to parent that child. They aren't disposable playthings, or inconveniences to be rid of once outside the womb. This is what aggravates me about the pro-life crowd: they only care for the pre-born, not the post-born. Once they're out of the womb, they're someone else's problem, unless a profit can be made off them.

Now we'll move on to that last sentence, adoption and why my answer to you is so brutal. I am an adult adopted person, born in Ireland at a time when women had no choices, no sexual education and were forced to give up their children even when they desperately wanted to parent. I was sold to the US along with more than 2,000 Irish children. Then in 1978, I found myself in the same shoes as my mother as a pregnant high school senior in a Catholic School. I don't need to tell you how well that went over. I was also forced to relinquish my daughter through Catholic Charities in Philadelphia.

While both my and my daughter's adoptive experiences were okay (no extremely low points, no great points, either -- just okay), we were both marked by adoption and continue to be to this day. Along with that, by virtue of adoption, both of us became automatic second-class citizens: Ireland and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania seal the original documents of our birth -- documents to which every other citizen, including convicted felons, have automatic access. Then there's the whole "different" than everyone else in our families stigma, the disconnectedness from family and self...I could go on and on. Adoption, even at its best and most altruistic, always damages and always involves some measure of unresolved loss and grief. Always. Even when the adopted person or natural mother don't outwardly seem that way or think they are affected. Trust me, they are. Adoption loss is, according to the Rev. Keith Griffith, "The only loss for which the whole of society expects us to to be grateful."

Now, you may think that the loss of your child to another couple won't bug you. I didn't think so either, especially when I was signing legal documents still under the influence of the meds I'd be given at delivery (including lactation suppressants), pre- and post-natal hormones, and duress. But as the years went by, that loss became unbearable. There was no closure, like one would get after an abortion, or knowing your child had died (stillborn, newborn, etc.) No funeral, no wake, no grieving ceremony. Just this unresolved loss, trauma and guilt. And it got worse as years went by. It was the same for my own mother.

Now let's take a look at the scenario/industry you're walking into.

Adoption is BIG business. Really big business, world-wide. And it involves a ton of fraud, child-trafficking, and black-market practice. As well as alot of nasty coercion of young, vulnerable women. It's gotten even more desperate and dark as the supply of available healthy, womb-fresh infants is dwindling rapidly. Young women now no longer face societal or religious stigma for being pregnant outside of marriage. More and more women are keeping (thankfully) their children, as they should. Children belong with the mothers (and ideally, fathers) who bore them, not with strangers. There's ample evidence to prove that. Often keeping and parenting a child isn't easy. I raised two after being widowed at age 33. But it was worth the struggle. There are tons of resources out there to help you do exactly that. Only the adoption agencies or even private adopters won't tell you that. Their objective is to get their hands on your womb-fresh "product." Period. And if you don't believe that, you're a fool or have been lied to.

I am not anti-adoption, but I believe it should only ever be used as a choice of last resort, and I mean absolute last -- as in you plan to beat, abuse or neglect your child. Adoption should ALWAYS be about finding homes for children who desperately need them, not about finding children for people who desperately want them. Your baby is not a "cure" for some needy, grasping couple's infertility. You should make every effort to parent your own child. It's what nature intended and what works best.

You will learn more about adoption from those who lived it, or experienced losing a child to it, than any agency will ever tell you, so kudos for at least coming to this forum to ask. But I seriously beg you to reconsider adoption. You may think you're giving your child a "better" life, but you (or anyone else) can't guarantee that. All you can guarantee is they'll get a different life. Money doesn't always make things "better," nor does having two parents of different sexes.

If you need help with parenting resources, please let us know. There are tons of great orgs in Ireland devoted to helping lone parents. It can be done.

And if, at the end of it all, you still wish to relinquish your child, do me one favour. Please do NOT make an adoption plan or contract with ANYONE until AFTER you have delivered, have met and held your child, and are free (as tested by a licensed medical practitioner) of ANY mind- or mood-altering substances. This includes lactation suppressants, pain medications, illegal drugs, and all post-pregnancy hormones (such as oxytocin). Also be sure you have been tested for post-partum depression. Any of these factors can render an adoption contract/relinquishment illegal - you cannot sign legally binding contracts under such circumstances. And if you do it before the birth of your child or immediately after it, it could be considered duress because you have a "waiting" couple at the end of the tunnel. I'm deadly serious. Years down the road, after you've sold your child off to some strangers, don't be surprised when said child (now adult) tracks you down and has his adoption invalidated because he learns you were non compos mentis when you signed relinquishment. Yes, that has happened.

Oh, and choosing an "open adoption"? There is no such legally enforceable thing. Sure, the adopters may say they'll keep in touch, share photos, updates, etc. But once you sign away your child it legally becomes theirs and they are under no obligation whatsoever to have anything to do with you. Over 80% of "open adoptions" gradually dwindle to "closed" within the first few years of info-sharing. That's a fact.

So weigh all this, ask questions, and we'll continue to be brutally honest with you.

culchiewoman

Sorry, should also add: you are NOT running out of time. Believe me, you can wait until after you've had your baby to make a decision. They will not be any less "adoptable". Moonbeam is, sadly, only too right in saying you would delight a completely ravenous adopting crowd in Ireland. These people would do anything (including beg, borrow or steal -- Google articles on illegal Irish adoptions from Guatemala, Vietnam and Mexico) to procure an infant and seem to be completely ignorant of their own country's hideous past with regard to child-trafficking and its consequences.

Dades

Folks, the OP has posted looking for specific information. Let's assume at this point she's aware of other options and also has the benefit of other threads on this forum that address same.

culchiewoman, thank you for your obviously heartfelt contribution, but let's keep any further responses specific to what was requested. lillytop can PM you or reply if she wants to engage with what you've said.

Otherwise we'll keep the thread related to information about adoption agencies.

Dades
(Soc Catagory CMod)

lillytop

Thank you culchiewoman for sharing your opinion, but I do believe that "personal reasons" could be something that not even you, with all your knowledge could understand. Each person has problems in life and different ways to deal with them. I try do not judge anything or anyone and I'm telling you that I already decided to give the baby for adoption. I'm aware of all the difficulties and issues and I used my own judgement to determinate what is the most appropriate in my situation.

Moonbeam - Thank you very much. I've sent an email and they answered me with some websites. But I'm still looking for couples outside of agencies. That would be my first choice.

kathy finn - It's a very difficult time, you're right. But I'm not Irish and the law does not apply for me. I'd have to live on my own and I just can't handle it and there's other circumstances as well. But I'm very thankful for your support.


Dades - Thank you very much for mediation. I admire people that care about each other and just want to help. I feel very happy for having this space to share my feelings.

If there's anyone here that has information, I'd like to know. And thank you very much, one more time.

Moonbeam

I found this website for you it might help - http://www.adoptionloss.ie/agencies.htm

Fizzlesque

Hi Lillytop,

I am a birthmother and I went through an agency called PACT http://www.pact.ie/v2/ who I found to be very kind, supportive and helpful.

My daughter is now 23 years old and I have had a semi-open adoption which meant getting a letter and some photos twice a year and being able to send letters, gifts etc any time I wanted - which I did very often.

I could have opted for an open adoption which would have involved occasional meetings, and phone calls, but I didn't think I could cope with that.

I met the parents of my daughter while I was pregnant, and I stipulated the agency were to find a family with either plans to adopt more children or with already adopted children, but no natural children - because I wanted my child to have siblings, but I didn't want there to be any risk of favouritism or feelings of 'not belonging'. All my wishes and requests were met and although the contact is done on a 'gentlemen's agreement' basis, I have not had any issues with contact.

I was allowed to have my daughter christened (she was in foster care for the first two months and I was able to visit her and have her come to my house for a day visit) and her adoptive parents chose to keep the name I chose for her. Every effort was made to ensure the adoption was kept as open and honest as possible - no hiding the fact my daughter was adopted, no pretending I didn't exist, no trying to keep me from being a part, however small, in my child's life. Maybe I was lucky with the family the agency found for me, or maybe PACT's approach was responsible, I can't say for sure.

PACT actively encourage and support ongoing contact between child and birth mother - they were pioneers in the more modern understanding that complete and final separation is more damaging to both parties.

I feel it would be dishonest of me if I didn't also tell you that I didn't realise how painful relinquishing my child was going to turn out to be - so please call PACT (if you do decide to call them) sooner rather than later so you will have time to discuss the options with a trained PACT worker in as much detail as possible.

I wish you all the best. Feel free to ask me any questions - absolutely any - at any time. xx

Edit: I just read all of culchiewoman's post and, regarding her comments about not signing papers - legally you're not permitted to sign papers until six weeks after the birth. In Ireland, at least, might be different elsewhere.

Fizzlesque

Hi Lilly, me again....I obviously didn't read your post properly first time, I missed the fact you're wanting to look for a couple directly and/or arrange this adoption outside of an agency. I can't help you there, although a cousin of mine did arrange an adoption directly with a family, it was over 20 years ago and she's no longer in this country for me to ask her about it.

Sorry I couldn't help and sorry for my earlier post which, I now realise, doesn't answer your question at all.

All the best.

Ann Onymus

Great post 'Culchiewoman' - would love to have read it 20 years ago when I was pregnant with my son whom I later relinquished to adoption.

Olympics2012

It breaks my heart to think that you feel like you have no other option. I am curious as to why you do not want any agency involved? I hate to think of the people who may take advantage of your situation. How will you determine who the right family are? If you are determined to go down this road please be aware of the roller coaster of emotion you are going to go through. You will need some support for yourself.
My heart wants to say I will look after the baby.

rinsjwind

Hi Lillytop

It is of course your decision but you should know that since the 2010 the adoption act came in, it is ILLEGAL for anyone other than a registered adoption agency or the HSE to make arrangements for an adoption.

Adoption Authority of Ireland on 01-2309300 will have a list of registered agencies and HSE adoption srevices.

Best wishes

Rins

Fizzlesque

I'd like to echo Olympic's and rinsjwind's expressions regarding using an agency V arranging an adoption privately. I don't know your reasons for wanting to avoid an agency, but I'd strongly advise using one. Not just any one, but one that respects your role in the adoption triangle and recognises the reality of a birthmother's fluctuating emotions - not just in the first few months, but forever.

You have written that you're completely sure adoption is what you plan to do, and I respect that, but I am afraid for you that you might close a door that you could have kept open - even if only slightly open - if you arrange a private adoption.

Forever is a long time, and with adoption, forever is not just a possibility, it's a certainty. You don't know how you're going to feel in 10, 20, 30 year's time, it's possible you'll always feel you made the right choice regarding having your child adopted, but I would urge you to arrange this adoption in a way that allows for freedom of fluctuating emotions - namely an agency being able to keep a record of who you are and where your child goes. Also for someone to be there to keep an eye on your child's welfare - which an agency, a good agency, will do.

Also, please remember the child in all of this, he/she may one day wish to know more about you (even if it's only medical history), or wish one day to get in contact with you, though you can, if you wish, say no to that. It breaks my heart reading this forum because I see so many adopted children (now adults) making enormous efforts to find scraps of information about their birth parents. Please don't make that search impossible for your child, which a private adoption is likely to do. Having your child adopted removes your parental responsibilities in lots of ways, but it doesn't remove them all. Some are still yours and will always be yours.

Adoption is painful for all concerned, please don't make it more painful by closing the door completely, which I'm afraid you'll do if you choose not to use an agency. Please call PACT, they will listen to all your concerns and act in your, and your baby's, best interest. You can walk away if you don't like what they say/advise, but at least give yourself (and your baby) as many positive options as possible. Keep as many doors open as you can, please. xx

culchiewoman

Dades, all due respect, but I neither would nor could in conscience just give someone links or contacts for agencies before giving them a true picture of what adoption involves and its lifelong repercussions. Agencies are in the business of procuring children for people who want to adopt them. 'Crisis pregnancy centers' are in the same business, of referring women to those agencies. They are not going to give someone the full picture, let's face it. Even the more progressive ones like PACT. lillytop also suggested she wanted to go the private route which, as rinsjwind points out, is illegal in Ireland. So bottom line is lillytop needs to be fully informed *before* she even approaches an agency. And as stated above, needs to *have* the baby before she puts an adoption plan into action. And the thread was labeled 'Information about adoption,' not 'Information about adoption agencies.'

Lillytop, if you're not Irish, why are you posing this question on an Irish board? And even if you're not a citizen of Ireland, but are living there, the 2010 Adoption Act still applies to you. It is illegal to not use a registered, accredited adoption agency. As far as you being aware of the difficulties and issues, no you aren't, because you haven't yet experienced them. Until you do you may be 'peripherally' aware, but you have no true understanding of how they will impact you down the road. Trust me. Also, after having been shot in the face by my late husband after finding out he'd molested our daughter, believe me, there is nothing about your personal circumstances that would shock me or that I wouldn't understand.

kwearykoru

If you are due to have your baby in one of the big maternity hospitals you should speak to a social worker there.

Fizzlesque

Culchiewoman, I fully understand where you're coming from, with regard to the lifelong repercussions of adoption - and how important it is that a woman thinking about adoption is made aware of the potential for severe emotional trauma at some point along the way - but I disagree with your suggestion lillytop wait until after the baby is born to begin looking at her options. As it stands, she will, legally, be bound to wait six weeks before signing any papers, so if she changes her mind, there won't be any reason why she can't do so. As any woman who has given birth knows, your emotions are all over the place and waiting till then to *begin* considering whether or not to adopt is fraught with danger.

Lillytop hasn't asked us to help her reach a decision as to whether or not she should choose adoption, despite the title of her thread - her opening post is quite clear that she wants to start the process and try find a couple. If she'd asked us for personal experiences about the emotional upheaval, I'd willingly shared mine, but she didn't. I suspect the fact you were forced to relinquish your baby has a lot of bearing on your strength of feeling here. Forcing a woman to relinquish her child is cruelty in its most brutal form. I feel deeply for your loss, I truly do.

Many adopted children have very happy lives with their adopted families - there's a thread on this forum and some of the posters have written about their experiences and how happy they are - one poster in particular stood out in my mind, chocolate-something (can't remember the full name) so it's unfair and untrue to assume absolutely every single adopted child will have difficulties and be better off with their birthmother. The child matters in all of this too - it's important to remember that.

As someone who was beaten daily by her stepmother as a child, I know how damaging being brought up in a bad environment can be. I'm not saying lillytop will beat her child (not at all) but you seem to be glossing over the harsh reality that sometimes a woman just isn't in the right place to give her child a good life.

As I said earlier, if lillytop asked for birthmothers to share their experiences, I'd have plenty to tell her, but she didn't. If a friend of mine came to me and told me she was thinking of adopting her baby, I'd try and talk her out of it, based on my own experience, but that feeling is one I have today, 23 years after the fact, and doesn't take my daughter's welfare into consideration at all - only how it has affected me.

My highly emotional response to the battle between my feelings about adoption and my feelings about being brought up in a neglectful/abusive/limited home would be to tell any woman who finds herself pregnant and unable to cope to have an abortion. Many will criticise me for that, and I have to restate that it's a highly emotional response because this is a highly emotional issue for me. There really is no easy answer. I wish our biology was the opposite way round, and we had to take a pill to get pregnant instead of a pill to stop it happening, so no woman would ever find herself struggling to cope with a crisis pregnancy. That's how stumped I am when trying to make sense of my constantly changing emotions regarding adoption. I hate it with a passion, but when I get photos and letters from my daughter, I see a beautiful young woman, with a good head on her shoulders, loving life and living it to the full and I can't be sure things would have worked out even half as well for her if I'd chosen to parent her myself.

I could say so much more, but this is lillytop's thread - not a platform for me to discuss my personal adoption heartbreak story.

I wish you all the best.

gradnic

I know that this has nothing to do with the information sought in the original post, but there is something that must be said. When I lost my child to adoption decades ago, I was bullied by the intimidating language and rantings of the self righteous. There were dire warnings of the fate worse than death that faced my child were I to selfishly insist on single motherhood. It seems that intimidating language and self righteousness is still around, but is now aimed at those who do not chose single motherhood for whatever reason. We are all aware of precautionary measures, but short of putting every 12 yr old on the pill, how can a girl be protected against pregnancy from sexual assault? The academic language did nothing to disguise the personal anger. We can do no more than our best, and we have not walked in the shoes of the girl who feels unable to keep her baby. Finally, it is not true to say that all children should be reared by the people who gave birth to them. In my line of work I have witnessed many situations where children learned to survive in spite of the women who gave birth to them and would have been much better off with a stranger. Human life is not black and white.

pwurple

Just wanted to say I'm sure you will find fantastic adoptive parents for your child. The irish adoption agency puts couples through lots of tests to make sure they are able for it, and provides support all along the way. There are absolutely loads of couples who will be overjoyed to get the chance to adopt.

biddybops

lillytop wrote: »

Thank you culchiewoman for sharing your opinion, but I do believe that "personal reasons" could be something that not even you, with all your knowledge could understand. Each person has problems in life and different ways to deal with them. I try do not judge anything or anyone and I'm telling you that I already decided to give the baby for adoption. I'm aware of all the difficulties and issues and I used my own judgement to determinate what is the most appropriate in my situation.

Moonbeam - Thank you very much. I've sent an email and they answered me with some websites. But I'm still looking for couples outside of agencies. That would be my first choice.

kathy finn - It's a very difficult time, you're right. But I'm not Irish and the law does not apply for me. I'd have to live on my own and I just can't handle it and there's other circumstances as well. But I'm very thankful for your support.


Dades - Thank you very much for mediation. I admire people that care about each other and just want to help. I feel very happy for having this space to share my feelings.

If there's anyone here that has information, I'd like to know. And thank you very much, one more time.

Hi lilytop,
First of all congratulations on your pregnancy, I'm sure you feel that it is more commiseration than congratulations you feel at the moment but you are bringing a baby into the world and that in itself is a life changing experience for you.
Adoption in Ireland is a very emotive issue, as I am sure you have noticed by previous posters. Women and children have been very let down by the state and just don't want you or your child to suffer the same fate as them, that is why even years later emotions are still raw.
I know when I was expecting my first child I always thought I was pregnant but I never realised what it was to be expecting a baby!
Pregnancy is a medical condition, but when you give birth you will experience overwhelming emotions when you see your baby for the first time and this is something that you will have to prepare yourself for if you are thinking about adoption.
In Ireland the state regulates your affairs so I am sure your ob/gyn is fully aware of your situation and will in the next few months suggest a meeting with a social worker, all I can advise you is not to attend an interview with a social worker without another person present ( I could make a joke about needing a solicitor present, but they don't come with 'clean hands' either)!
I have some concerns that you are on a public forum asking for advice on private adoption, if anyone has sent you a pm offering to help, even if it is from a member of the legal or medical profession, please notify the mods and file a report with the guards.
You seem to have little support and speaking from experience this leaves you vulnerable to people with hidden agendas, be careful who turns up wanting to help or be your friend.
You don't have to be in any hurry to make a decision, you have all the time you need to contact support groups and try to get some support. I can't really reccomend any adoption company but perhaps you should try to contact a single parents organisation who can advise you on your options and entitlements regardless of the decision that you make.
If you ever need to talk just post again and now you have a lot of people who are thinking and wishing the best for you.
I wish only the best for you and your baby and the most important thing is to keep healthy and happy.

Merrilady

Lillytop - I'm sorry that you are having such an emotionally difficult time, I cant imagine what you are going through.

I agree that you have options, maybe talk to a doctor in one of the maternity hospitals and they can put you in touch with someone who can counsel you on the best option for you AND your child.

Yes, adoption is an emotive issue for all involved, you have heard some posters stories.

I would like to tell you mine -
As a Propective Adoptive Parent (ie We are waiting to adopt ) we have been put through physical, emotional, phychological and financial tests. We have been educated and informed ( to the best of anyones ability ) and the irish governement have deemed us suitable to adopt a child. This child is much longed for in a very loving relationship and will be much loved and supported throughout thier life, again to the best of our abilities.
Anyone I have met along this heartbreaking road would be the same.

What I am trying to say - if this is your choice, times have changed and education and information have made this journey not what it was.

Posters - Please understand I am not dissing your opinions and /or experiences, I just wanted to put another side to the story out there, and maybe let some of you know adoption is NOT a "ravenous" "child trafficking" "money making" situation of the past.

I truely hope I ahve not offened anyone here, and I hope my post has communicated another side to the adoption story.

Lillytop - the very best of luck to you in the future.

kitty171184

how did this all work out?