American History X

YoungTrouble

Just saw it for the first time yesterday.Great performance from Norton.To think,he made this and Fight Club in the space of two years.What happened?

krudler

YoungTrouble wrote: »

Just saw it for the first time yesterday.Great performance from Norton.To think,he made this and Fight Club in the space of two years.What happened?

Norton? he's made a few films since, he's meant to be difficult to work with though.

homerun_homer

He was very difficult to work with during American History X as well. The problem was between him and the director (common problem with Ed). Ed thought the movie the director (whose 2nd film has only just come out this year) was trying to make was "Too MTV" and he wanted more power with the final edit etc and the Director wanted his name taken off it.

Ed does come across like a nice, cool enough guy in many interviews (even casual ones in a bar with AICN writers who expect him to be difficult). He's a movie nerd and genuinely wants the best in the work he does which might end up with him becoming too much of a control freak.

I listened to his Mark Kermode interview recently and he was asked to name his 5 Ed Norton films for a hypothetical Ed Norton film festival. He only named about 3 movies and to my surprise he didn't jump to name, let alone list Fight Club. Death to Smoochie was one he named.

Seans_Username

YoungTrouble wrote: »

Just saw it for the first time yesterday.Great performance from Norton.To think,he made this and Fight Club in the space of two years.What happened?

He was the lead role in 25th Hour, he was in Kingdom of Heaven, then The Illusionist, then The Painted Veil. He didn't vanish off the face of the earth ya know...


The story about the making of American History X is very interesting. Tony Kaye didn't want to be associated with the final cut so he wanted the name Alan Smithee to appear in the credits instead of his. When that didn't work he tried to change the name to Humpty Dumpty!
There's an interesting enough piece about the difference between the workprint and the final cut here.

I remember watching this with a few lads who never seen it before and I was hoping they would pay attention to it. As the line 'Has anything you've done made your life any better?' was coming up I was hoping they'd listen. Then after it was said, one of the lads just goes "Woah. Fúck. That's deep."

I've seen this loads of times and there's one thing that always bugs me abuot the ending.

Over the course of the film, it's obvious that racism is wrong. And Derek and Sweeney make Danny (a skinhead) change his ways. So surely, when the black kid kills Danny, the whole point of the film is just gone out the window. It's a hate crime essentially. Is that really the best way to finish the plot?

Temaz

Seans_Username wrote: »

I've seen this loads of times and there's one thing that always bugs me abuot the ending.

Over the course of the film, it's obvious that racism is wrong. And Derek and Sweeney make Danny (a skinhead) change his ways. So surely, when the black kid kills Danny, the whole point of the film is just gone out the window. It's a hate crime essentially. Is that really the best way to finish the plot?

I read somewhere that the film was to end with Norton's character shaving his head again, going back into the life of a skinhead.

Could be internet bull****!

Sad Professor

In fairness to Norton, Tony Kaye is meant to be a bit cookoo. He bumped heads with just about everyone over American History X. Assuming Detachment his him working free of interference, then it was probably a good thing Norton stepped in.

Penn

Seans_Username wrote: »

I've seen this loads of times and there's one thing that always bugs me abuot the ending.

Over the course of the film, it's obvious that racism is wrong. And Derek and Sweeney make Danny (a skinhead) change his ways. So surely, when the black kid kills Danny, the whole point of the film is just gone out the window. It's a hate crime essentially. Is that really the best way to finish the plot?

I always took it to be that the point was that

Danny was killed because of Derek's actions in making Danny who he was. It was Derek who corrupted Danny. Even though he made him change his ways by the end, Danny was killed because of how he was, which was Derek's fault really. It wasn't a hate or race crime because the black kid didn't kill him because Danny was white, it was because Danny was a prick to him and he knew about Danny's background.

sbsquarepants

homerun_homer wrote: »

He was very difficult to work with during American History X as well. The problem was between him and the director (common problem with Ed). Ed thought the movie the director (whose 2nd film has only just come out this year) was trying to make was "Too MTV" and he wanted more power with the final edit etc and the Director wanted his name taken off it.

Ed does come across like a nice, cool enough guy in many interviews (even casual ones in a bar with AICN writers who expect him to be difficult). He's a movie nerd and genuinely wants the best in the work he does which might end up with him becoming too much of a control freak.

I listened to his Mark Kermode interview recently and he was asked to name his 5 Ed Norton films for a hypothetical Ed Norton film festival. He only named about 3 movies and to my surprise he didn't jump to name, let alone list Fight Club. Death to Smoochie was one he named.

Great film.
I wouldn't put it ahead of fight club or american history x though!

MyBrokenKnees

He made some wonderful films around that time.. But as an above poster said its reported he is very hard to work with.. That was supposed to be one of the reasons he wasn't brought back for the Avengers he wouldn't work well in a group because he wants to be the number one guy.. Its sad to say because on his day he is an amazing actor.

SirDelboy18

He has had some great performances, and is still around - Primal Fear is possibly his best, but American History X and The People vs Larry Flynt are also great.

He has sort of lessened the amount he puts out these days, with a few duds such as Kingdom of Heaven (although he was magnificent in it) and Pride and Glory.

But his involvement in Moonrise Kingdom and The Bourne Legacy hopefully leads to more of him.

don ramo

yeah he is suppose to be a control freak, he was suppose to be in the avengers earlier this year, he played banner in the last hulk film, but apparently he wanted a big say in how the film was made and other stuff, obviously marvel were having none of it and they went their separate ways, i liked nortons banner and i thought he would have added to the film, we'll never know now, but ruffalo has gotten high praise for his version of banner, and i think its fair,

Sad Professor

Norton is seemingly only "difficult" with hack director/producers who don't know what they are doing or don't have the film's best interests at heart. Did Ridley Scott, Wes Anderson, David Fincher, Spike Lee or Milos Forman have any problems with him? None that I've ever heard. Norton is not the kind of actor who just shuts up and says his lines. He's concerned with the film as whole. That doesn't mean he's a control freak or an egomaniac or any of the other things I heard being thrown around about him in the aftermath of the Marvel fiasco.

Cokeistan

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

He has had some great performances, and is still around - Primal Fear is possibly his best, but American History X and The People vs Larry Flynt are also great.

He has sort of lessened the amount he puts out these days, with a few duds such as Kingdom of Heaven (although he was magnificent in it) and Pride and Glory.

But his involvement in Moonrise Kingdom and The Bourne Legacy hopefully leads to more of him.

I thought Kingdom of Heaven was a great watch, massively under-rated!

sweetie

great fim and will always hold a place in my heart as the film my wife and I went to see on our first date! She really knew what she was in for when the first dvd we rented was 'happiness' by Todd Solondz. :eek:

MyBrokenKnees

The Director Tony Kaye. From his IMDB page..Tony filed a $275 million lawsuit against New Line and the Director's Guild of America for not letting him use the pseudonym "Humpty Dumpty" as the director of American History X :eek:

homerun_homer

I've seen Tony Kaye in interview on telly and I don't like the cut of his jib. I'm siding with Norton on this one.

krudler

Cokeistan wrote: »

I thought Kingdom of Heaven was a great watch, massively under-rated!

I love that movie, but only the extended one, the theatrical is a butchered mess, the full version is fantastic.

Marty McFly

American History X is my all time favorite film its has amazing performances by both Ed Norton and Ed Furlong who really I think threw away his talent. Its a really powerful film.


I usually enjoy Ed Norton films including Pride and Glory, but lovd him in Primal Fear my first ontroduction to him as I was ony 13 when it was origially released along with Fight Club and 25th Hour which I had never heard of but bought purely because he was in it.

Also have Stone on my to watch list which by the trailer I thought looked good but havent managed to get around to watching yet.

JP Liz V1

Edward Norton should have won an Oscar for his performance in American History X imo

He is a fantastic actor dont think I've ever seen a bad performance from him even in a bad film

SirDelboy18

krudler wrote: »

I love that movie, but only the extended one, the theatrical is a butchered mess, the full version is fantastic.

I've not seen it since I saw it in the cinema. I'll search out the extended edition.

Jimdagym

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Edward Norton should have won an Oscar for his performance in American History X imo

He is a fantastic actor dont think I've ever seen a bad performance from him even in a bad film

I love Norton too, but he was malogen in the Italian Job remake.
Although I think I remember reading that it was the 5th film in a 5 picture deal and he just didn't want to be there.
Could be BS, but even if true doesn't justify how bad he was. Just didn't seem bothered IMO.

Bobby Baccala

What a phenomenal film, only got to see it a couple of months back, seriously good stuff. I usually enjoy everything Ed Norton is in, then i saw Stone with him and De Niro, i hated it even though they're my 2 favourite actors. It was just plain shít.

wandatowell

Great show

American History X, a film I watched repaeatedly in my early 20s, still love it but it is overdue a rewatch.

Possible I missed it, but has nobody mentioned Rounders yet for a great Norton perfomance? He nailed the sleazy but affable f*ck-up in the supporting role to Damon.

Andy!!

Seans_Username wrote: »

I've seen this loads of times and there's one thing that always bugs me abuot the ending.

Over the course of the film, it's obvious that racism is wrong. And Derek and Sweeney make Danny (a skinhead) change his ways. So surely, when the black kid kills Danny, the whole point of the film is just gone out the window. It's a hate crime essentially. Is that really the best way to finish the plot?

How does the whole point of the movie go out the window? It only bolsters the main point. Hatred is futile. Nothing good comes of it. Norton's character gets freed from one prison only to be dumped in another one, whose cages and bars he can never escape from. An amazing ending. And that shot, wow, so powerful. My favourite slow-motion shot of all time.

L84

I'm resurrecting this thread as the film couldn't be any more relevant to the current situation and it's also sad that it was released almost 20 years ago, with not a whole lot learned since then.
It's a masterpiece and the ending was exactly how it should be, unfortunately. No escapes tragedy in their life and it was extremely powerful. One thing I never noticed when I watched it for the first time all those years ago, was the fact that the black guy's brother is as influential to him as Derek is to Danny. The message is so clear with that ending... Hatred is a cycle

2smiggy

i would have like Ed Nortons character ( Derek ? ) to shave the head again as the ending