Aer Lingus Regional ATR-42 Single Engine Landing *video*

charliehotel

These ATRs seem to have terrible reliability in light of recent incidents such as above. Roll on the -600s!!

pclancy

Not really fair to say its the airplane's fault, more those engines seem to be having issues of late.

charliehotel

pclancy wrote: »

Not really fair to say its the airplane's fault, more those engines seem to be having issues of late.

Burst tyres in June http://avherald.com/h?article=45108a3b&opt=0

Landing Gear Problems in July http://avherald.com/h?article=453bac9d&opt=0

globemaster1986

What I find most interesting about this video is the fact that the prop is not fully feathered and is windmilling.

pclancy

charliehotel wrote: »

Burst tyres in June http://avherald.com/h?article=45108a3b&opt=0

Landing Gear Problems in July http://avherald.com/h?article=453bac9d&opt=0

Yep I remember those incidents...I still wouldn't consider an entire aircraft type "unreliable" after stuff like that happening, its pretty common across all types to pop tyres for various reasons (usually just hard or fast landings) and as I said the PV120 engines seem to be the biggest pain of many ATR42 issues. Sure some of the Aer Lingus airframes are getting on in hours but by and large they're reliable and earn their keep nicely. Plus there's tons of ATR42s plodding around the EU/USNZ/Australia for other airlines every day without issue. I think they're great aircraft, certainly on par with other popular regional twins like Q-300s or B1900s etc.

Maybe people just always see them as "old" because they are prop aircraft and a bit more flimsy inside. A friend recently wouldnt get on one before a regional Australian flight because he though the plane looked "ancient" due to having propellers for power

charliehotel

pclancy wrote: »

Yep I remember those incidents...I still wouldn't consider an entire aircraft type "unreliable" after stuff like that happening, its pretty common across all types to pop tyres for various reasons (usually just hard or fast landings) and as I said the PV120 engines seem to be the biggest pain of many ATR42 issues. Sure some of the Aer Lingus airframes are getting on in hours but by and large they're reliable and earn their keep nicely. Plus there's tons of ATR42s plodding around the EU/USNZ/Australia for other airlines every day without issue. I think they're great aircraft, certainly on par with other popular regional twins like Q-300s or B1900s etc.

Maybe people just always see them as "old" because they are prop aircraft and a bit more flimsy inside. A friend recently wouldnt get on one before a regional Australian flight because he though the plane looked "ancient" due to having propellers for power

Apologies for the confusion, but when I said ''these ATRs'' I was referring to the ATR-42 aircraft specifically operated by Aer Arann, all four aircraft are in excess of 22 years old.

bluecode

globemaster1986 wrote: »

What I find most interesting about this video is the fact that the prop is not fully feathered and is windmilling.

The prop would have been fully feathered, however the PW120 is a 'free turbine'. The prop shaft is not mechanically connected to anything so it's free to turn. You can push one around by hand very easily. The PT6 is the same. I remember seeing an Engineer stop a propellor on a Caravan with his hand. It was turning very very slowly of course.

It's ironic that people think propellor aircraft are old or 'ancient'. Quite often they are more modern than the 'jets'.

But in fact the Aer Arann ATRs are getting a bit tired. As they do so, like all aircraft they become more maintenance intensive. Just like cars.

LaVail

I was in the aircraft posted in the video and about a minute after take off from Kerry airport the pilots called out over the intercom for the flight attendant to go to the cabin...She was only in it for a couple of seconds and when she came back she was white as a ghost but remained calm as she said we had to return to Kerry.

The aircraft itself was pretty turbulent, it was climbing and dropping for the entire time we were in the air..I was sitting in seat 12F and looked out the window to my left and saw the left engine wasn't running..I wasn't overly concerned as I knew it could run just fine on 1 engine...I did however hear the other engine under pressure and it was making a sort of mechanical whine. I guess thats because of the stress it was under.

We landed without a problem and as we were getting off I noticed the fire crew and others were waiting for us, as a precaution I suppose. Met 1 of the pilots outside after and he apologised and asked how were were...very nice guy and very experienced as far as I could tell because he wasn't shocked in the slightest or anything.

Read in the Kerryman this week that some local near Kerry airport heard the conversation between the pilots and the tower and he heard the pilot say "Mayday Mayday Mayday, we have lost an engine" or something to that effect.

The people at Faranfore got a private bus to bring me and 3 others to Dublin - took nearly 4 hrs ffs...that was the biggest disaster of the whole thing tbh.

murphaph

LaVail wrote: »

Read in the Kerryman this week that some local near Kerry airport heard the conversation between the pilots and the tower and he heard the pilot say "Mayday Mayday Mayday, we have lost an engine" or something to that effect.

I would imagine the loss of an engine is a full emergency situation for a twin engined aircraft and so "mayday" would be the correct call?

LaVail

murphaph wrote: »

I would imagine the loss of an engine is a full emergency situation for a twin engined aircraft and so "mayday" would be the correct call?

To be honest you're asking the wrong man here...I know zero about aviation so I couldn't give you an answer as I'd be lying. I suppose losing an engine would be a mayday call. In the paper the guy who heard the conversation between aircraft and tower said "it sounded like a full blown emergency"

At least we made it back to the ground anyway so full credit to the excellent skills of the pilots.

Tenger

LaVail wrote: »

To be honest you're asking the wrong man here...I know zero about aviation so I couldn't give you an answer as I'd be lying.....

At least we made it back to the ground anyway so full credit to the excellent skills of the pilots.

At the end of day.......regardless of which airline/aircraft you personally favour.......this is what the guys at the pointy end are trained and paid for.

So fair play to the pilots of this aircraft on the day in question.

Stinicker

Didn't Aer Arran take off with one of these planes recently from London Southend after a mechanical problem only to have to make a return to the airport after a few minutes.

Sooner or later some poor misfortunes will get killed in these death traps and I for one will take my chances with CIE before I'd use them to fly to Dublin until they get some new reliable planes and turn these things into coke cans.

Camerahide

As a former PPL holder (Private Pilot License) and cameraman I was working in my little studio when I got word of a 'Mayday, Engine Failure' call from an Aer Lingus (operated by Aer Arran) aircraft taking off runway 26 at Kerry airport. I live within a 1km of runway 26 so my camera gear was in the jeep and I headed up the road towards the runaway. The aircraft was airborne on a runaway heading of 260 but too low a ceiling (1000ft) to see the plane. I could hear the aircraft overhead and eventually got a look at it on a heading of 080 it was about 1500ft in broken cloud and the port engine was just windmilling but thankfully no smoke or any sign of fire in that engine. The plane went about 11 miles on this heading and then turned back to land safely on runway 26. I didn't know how many souls on board but I knew that they would be a heavy loading on the starboard engine if they had a full load. The approach was a bit of a roller coaster ride through the view finder of the camera for the passengers from about 300ft into the threshold of runaway 26. The skill and professionalism of the pilots and also ATC (Air Traffic Control) at Kerry airport made it look like a 'piece of cake' Well done to all.

keroseneboy

Stinicker wrote: »

Didn't Aer Arran take off with one of these planes recently from London Southend after a mechanical problem only to have to make a return to the airport after a few minutes.

Sooner or later some poor misfortunes will get killed in these death traps and I for one will take my chances with CIE before I'd use them to fly to Dublin until they get some new reliable planes and turn these things into coke cans.

Do you not think it a little OTT to describe Aer Arrann as operators of "death traps" ?

BTW CIE as the holding company of Irinród Eireann could well be held responsibly for infinately more deaths of passangers given that they have had fatal incidents whereas Aer Arann, like most modern airlines, have not.

Camerahide

In my opinion an engine failure can happen to any aircraft new or old and its not confined to any specific operator. No doubt, older aircraft need more maintenance as all moving parts get old and start to wear and do need closer attention and replacement. I know that Aer Arran like all other aircraft operators have periodic inspections that have to be done on all commercial/civil aircraft after a certain amount of time or usage for e.g. The 'A' Check; This is performed approximately every 500 - 800 flight hours. It needs about 20 man-hours and is usually performed overnight at an airport gate. The actual occurrence of this check varies by aircraft type, the cycle count (takeoff and landing is considered an aircraft "cycle"), or the number of hours flown since the last check. The occurrence can be delayed by the airline if certain predetermined conditions are not met. Other comprehensive checks are B,C,D, all maintenance intervals based on usage parameters allow more flexibility in scheduling the maintenance program to optimize aircraft utilization and minimize aircraft downtime.
So pointing the finger at any one aircraft operator for poor aircraft performance is lack of knowledge of the aircraft maintenance industry, and no offense to anyone intended!

kona

Camerahide wrote: »

In my opinion an engine failure can happen to any aircraft new or old and its not confined to any specific operator. No doubt, older aircraft need more maintenance as all moving parts get old and start to wear and do need closer attention and replacement. I know that Aer Arran like all other aircraft operators have periodic inspections that have to be done on all commercial/civil aircraft after a certain amount of time or usage for e.g. The 'A' Check; This is performed approximately every 500 - 800 flight hours. It needs about 20 man-hours and is usually performed overnight at an airport gate. The actual occurrence of this check varies by aircraft type, the cycle count (takeoff and landing is considered an aircraft "cycle"), or the number of hours flown since the last check. The occurrence can be delayed by the airline if certain predetermined conditions are not met. Other comprehensive checks are B,C,D, all maintenance intervals based on usage parameters allow more flexibility in scheduling the maintenance program to optimize aircraft utilization and minimize aircraft downtime.
So pointing the finger at any one aircraft operator for poor aircraft performance is lack of knowledge of the aircraft maintenance industry, and no offense to anyone intended!

This a copy and paste job ??

Bearcat

globemaster1986 wrote: »

What I find most interesting about this video is the fact that the prop is not fully feathered and is windmilling.

As per other post...it's a free turbine unless it was seized it wouldn't move.

Well done to the Crew.

Camerahide

kona wrote: »

This a copy and paste job ??

This is public knowledge for anyone that is interested in aircraft safety and maintenance!

bluecode

Camerahide is right all aircraft are maintained on a periodic basis. But it's worth pointing out that engine also operate on their own schedule. Aircraft do not keep the same engines throughout their lives and the age of the aircraft itself has no bearing on the age of the engine. Even light aircraft change their engines on occasion. Removed engines are usually sent to specialist engine refurbishers.

It's also worth pointing out that many engines like the one on the ATR are modular so sections can be removed and replaced as and when required. They can become like the proverbial sweeping brush. The same old one, only with five new heads and three new handles. There may indeed be very little of the original engine left that the original serial number referred to.

So generalised comments about Aer Arran's maintenance standards are not really appropriate.

kona

bluecode wrote: »

Camerahide is right all aircraft are maintained on a periodic basis. But it's worth pointing out that engine also operate on their own schedule. Aircraft do not keep the same engines throughout their lives and the age of the aircraft itself has no bearing on the age of the engine. Even light aircraft change their engines on occasion. Removed engines are usually sent to specialist engine refurbishers.

It's also worth pointing out that many engines like the one on the ATR are modular so sections can be removed and replaced as and when required. They can become like the proverbial sweeping brush. The same old one, only with five new heads and three new handles. There may indeed be very little of the original engine left that the original serial number referred to.

So generalised comments about Aer Arran's maintenance standards are not really appropriate.

Aint those aer arann engines radial flow turbined and not axial?

bluecode

Top of my head, the turbine is surely axial and the compressor centrifugal? Need to check the cross section.

LaVail

Sorry to drag this thread up again but did any of you hear that another aer arran aircraft had to make an emergency landing after taking off from Dublin during the week?

They had 40 people on board as far as I remember and spent 12minutes in the air before returning.

I know nothing about aircraft but what I do know is aer arran seem to have lots of "emergency landings" over the last few years. To people working in the industry this may be standard or "normal" everyday stuff but to me it's a little concerning.

Why don't they modernise their fleet instead of having aircraft that are 20+ years old? Maybe there would be less issues with modern aircraft than with current ones?

keroseneboy

LaVail wrote: »

Sorry to drag this thread up again but did any of you hear that another aer arran aircraft had to make an emergency landing after taking off from Dublin during the week?

They had 40 people on board as far as I remember and spent 12minutes in the air before returning.

I know nothing about aircraft but what I do know is aer arran seem to have lots of "emergency landings" over the last few years. To people working in the industry this may be standard or "normal" everyday stuff but to me it's a little concerning.

Why don't they modernise their fleet instead of having aircraft that are 20+ years old? Maybe there would be less issues with modern aircraft than with current ones?

Given Aer Arran's recent finance worries, modernising their fleet mighr not be affordable for them.

LeftBase

LaVail wrote: »

Sorry to drag this thread up again but did any of you hear that another aer arran aircraft had to make an emergency landing after taking off from Dublin during the week?

They had 40 people on board as far as I remember and spent 12minutes in the air before returning.

I know nothing about aircraft but what I do know is aer arran seem to have lots of "emergency landings" over the last few years. To people working in the industry this may be standard or "normal" everyday stuff but to me it's a little concerning.

Why don't they modernise their fleet instead of having aircraft that are 20+ years old? Maybe there would be less issues with modern aircraft than with current ones?

They have an order in for new aircraft to replace the older ones

b757

LaVail wrote: »

Why don't they modernise their fleet instead of having aircraft that are 20+ years old? Maybe there would be less issues with modern aircraft than with current ones?

keroseneboy wrote: »

Given Aer Arran's recent finance worries, modernising their fleet mighr not be affordable for them.

They have an order for 8 new ATR72-600's which will start being delivered at the start of next year or late this year, which may rise.
Stobart is handing up the money to finance these new ATR72's

80RPilot

The order was never confirmed and the latest rumour is that its not going ahead! So no new airplanes for RE!

A319er

So 6 of the 8 in service all delivered 2013
1 due any day
1 due mar 14
Current fleet 14 to go to 16 unless someone takes up the offers of leasing the 42 s
Two options still exist and there is talk of ork dub again, seems Re on the up
Well done all and cork cabin crew are being recruited ???