carcass handling

jay.b

lads does anyone know if there is any carcass handling courses/seminars coming up? or if anyone would be willing to share their knowledge on field dressing with me? i've watched plenty of videos but its not the same as having someone teaching you. anyway, any help/info would be great, thanks

flanum

Fair play lad.. i was going to address this subject soon meself, i appear to be the resident butcher in our gun club.. every year we have a game tasting night and raise a few quid for local charities etc so all the lads hold back all the game shot and freeze it itill feb or march or so... and all the time i get home from work throughout the season and theres always a bag of pheasents or ducks hangin off me door handle... startin to get peed off ...

I could show ye loads of different ways to clean out foul and fur.. and theres indeed lots of great clips on youtube etc, im contemplating mid season(mid december) having a game prep demo night for our club members... no excuses after that...

OP are ye in a club? if not just roll your sleeves up and try what youve seen on the net, sure if ye fook it up ye can always make burgers/feed the dogs etc... EVERY PERSON THAT HUNTS SHOULD LEARN HOW TO BUTCHER/DRESS THEIR QUARRY!!

shooter88

flanum wrote: »

Fair play lad.. i was going to address this subject soon meself, i appear to be the resident butcher in our gun club.. every year we have a game tasting night and raise a few quid for local charities etc so all the lads hold back all the game shot and freeze it itill feb or march or so... and all the time i get home from work throughout the season and theres always a bag of pheasents or ducks hangin off me door handle... startin to get peed off ...

I could show ye loads of different ways to clean out foul and fur.. and theres indeed lots of great clips on youtube etc, im contemplating mid season(mid december) having a game prep demo night for our club members... no excuses after that...

OP are ye in a club? if not just roll your sleeves up and try what youve seen on the net, sure if ye fook it up ye can always make burgers/feed the dogs etc... EVERY PERSON THAT HUNTS SHOULD LEARN HOW TO BUTCHER/DRESS THEIR QUARRY!!

Flamun has prob given you the best advice since you seen a few clips just have a go at it..its a lot handyr to do than you might think
A mate of mine said he will take me out for a deer as long as I cut it up he will shoot it..I'm watching a few clips I'm lucky tho as a cousin is a butcher if I get stuck

garv123

jay.b wrote: »

lads does anyone know if there is any carcass handling courses/seminars coming up? or if anyone would be willing to share their knowledge on field dressing with me? i've watched plenty of videos but its not the same as having someone teaching you. anyway, any help/info would be great, thanks

Is it deer or birds or what are you looking to learn about?

If its deer the best way is go out with someone stalking and watch them do the deer and help out and get as hands on as possible, looking through stuff knowing what it should look like. Then ask them to give you a ring when they are skinning and chopping it up and go have a look and you'll pick it up fairly fast watching it been done in front of you.

dodderangler

garv123 wrote: »

jay.b wrote: »

lads does anyone know if there is any carcass handling courses/seminars coming up? or if anyone would be willing to share their knowledge on field dressing with me? i've watched plenty of videos but its not the same as having someone teaching you. anyway, any help/info would be great, thanks

Is it deer or birds or what are you looking to learn about?

If its deer the best way is go out with someone stalking and watch them do the deer and help out and get as hands on as possible, looking through stuff knowing what it should look like. Then ask them to give you a ring when they are skinning and chopping it up and go have a look and you'll pick it up fairly fast watching it been done in front of you.

Gettin a person to bring a lad out deer stalkin is a lot easier said than done
Very few lads will bring another lad out stalkin which is understandable
I Havint been out hunting deer for 7 years hopefully this year I can tag along with mate of mine
But yes least you want to know how to skin and take the best cuts from a deer and learn to do it right
It should be part of a course to learn how to skin a deer
As for birds ..........pluck pluck pull lol

garv123

dodderangler wrote: »

Gettin a person to bring a lad out deer stalkin is a lot easier said than done
Very few lads will bring another lad out stalkin which is understandable
I Havint been out hunting deer for 7 years hopefully this year I can tag along with mate of mine
But yes least you want to know how to skin and take the best cuts from a deer and learn to do it right
It should be part of a course to learn how to skin a deer
As for birds ..........pluck pluck pull lol

The lads on here are offering to bring lads out stalking the whole time to show them the ropes and see if they are interested in getting into it. Bringing someone to shoot on your land may be a different story but most lads dont mind a second fella to tag along and help with the drag.

dodderangler

garv123 wrote: »

dodderangler wrote: »

Gettin a person to bring a lad out deer stalkin is a lot easier said than done
Very few lads will bring another lad out stalkin which is understandable
I Havint been out hunting deer for 7 years hopefully this year I can tag along with mate of mine
But yes least you want to know how to skin and take the best cuts from a deer and learn to do it right
It should be part of a course to learn how to skin a deer
As for birds ..........pluck pluck pull lol

The lads on here are offering to bring lads out stalking the whole time to show them the ropes and see if they are interested in getting into it. Bringing someone to shoot on your land may be a different story but most lads dont mind a second fella to tag along and help with the drag.

That's what I mean man
I'd gladly drag a carcass but think I'm sorted
A decent lad I know said its no problem to go out with him

slippy wicket

FYI if they can get the numbers the IDS are planning to run a carcass handling and disease identification day ( my description, not theirs) for new members before the start of the season.

Joined up yesterday in Borris, been meaning to for a few years.
Stuff like that wouldbe a great help if bringing something to a game dealer.

daithi55

slippy wicket wrote: »

FYI if they can get the numbers the IDS are planning to run a carcass handling and disease identification day ( my description, not theirs) for new members before the start of the season.

Joined up yesterday in Borris, been meaning to for a few years.
Stuff like that wouldbe a great help if bringing something to a game dealer.

ya still wont be able to sell to a game dealer after attending there seminar
its only for consuming animals yourself and how to identify disease etc

slippy wicket

daithi55 wrote: »

ya still wont be able to sell to a game dealer after attending there seminar
its only for consuming animals yourself and how to identify disease etc

O right, is there some other course you have to do, some of that HACCP bs or some food safety thing.

garv123

daithi55 wrote: »

ya still wont be able to sell to a game dealer after attending there seminar
its only for consuming animals yourself and how to identify disease etc

You can sell to the game dealer without any course...

O right, is there some other course you have to do, some of that HACCP bs or some food safety thing.

for deer, you need to bring the head and all the other organs to be inspected by a vet..

With the new "trained hunter" course that they're calling it you can bring the animal to the game dealer as the bare carcass, but the body must still be inspected by a vet.

None of these courses mean you can sell meet directly to the butcher if they do not have a game dealers licence as they must be inspected by a vet first.

The course was held a few weeks ago in wexford, I presume there will be another one on somewhere at another date.

Fallow01

slippy wicket wrote: »

FYI if they can get the numbers the IDS are planning to run a carcass handling and disease identification day ( my description, not theirs) for new members before the start of the season.

Joined up yesterday in Borris, been meaning to for a few years.
Stuff like that wouldbe a great help if bringing something to a game dealer.

I see the Wild Deer Association have been running Carcass Handling Courses for the last 13 years and hold them in November & February with 180 attending the last two courses according to their website, they seem to have a lot of good stuff in the seminars check out their page http://www.wilddeerireland.com/events.html

Their membership is only €20 which entitles you to attend the seminars free of charge sounds good value The NARGC one is over €300 but entitles you to sell to Game Dealers after the new rules start in September 2014

garv123

Fallow01 wrote: »

Their membership is only €20 which entitles you to attend the seminars free of charge sounds good value The NARGC one is over €300 but entitles you to sell to Game Dealers after the new rules start in September 2014

What will the new rules be?

Fallow01

garv123 wrote: »

What will the new rules be?

Without boring you with all the details, if you want to sell deer or small game to a Game Dealer you will have to complete a Game Handling course before September 1st 2014, the Dept of Agri and Food Safety people have signed off on the course, which comes from an EU directive on game entering the food chain.

So far only the NARGC have a course out there but I hear the group that does the HCAP will also have a course out soon -charging only €100 and there could be others too.

poulo6.5

jay.b wrote: »

lads does anyone know if there is any carcass handling courses/seminars coming up? or if anyone would be willing to share their knowledge on field dressing with me? i've watched plenty of videos but its not the same as having someone teaching you. anyway, any help/info would be great, thanks

Hi jay.b. where are you based. I don't mind taking a lad along to show him the ropes. At this time of year I usually take an odd goat or 2 for the table. It's an ideal way to keep in practice for the deer season.

If you want to join me for a goat stalk per deer season let me know.
It might be best to pm any private info.

terminator2

Fallow01 wrote: »

I see the Wild Deer Association have been running Carcass Handling Courses for the last 13 years and hold them in November & February with 180 attending the last two courses according to their website, they seem to have a lot of good stuff in the seminars check out their page http://www.wilddeerireland.com/events.html

Their membership is only €20 which entitles you to attend the seminars free of charge sounds good value The NARGC one is over €300 but entitles you to sell to Game Dealers after the new rules start in September 2014

13th Carcass Handling Seminar

February 8th 2012
Our 13th Carcass Handling Seminar will take place on Sunday February 12th at 2pm in Cahir, Co Tipperary. The venue will be sign posted on the day which is beside Cahir Castle. We would encourage members to bring as many fresh deer carcasses as possible, including the pluck for examination.
The Skill and Knowledge of Carcass Handling is something that we all require new or old to Deer-Stalking and the committee would like the support of all members for this event. There is no charge for this event, outstanding membership and new members can pay on the day.
Schedule 2.00pm – Disease identification and general deer health – John Murray, Dept. of Agriculture 3.00pm – Carcass Preparation and Home Butchery - David Dunne, Game Butcher and Deer Stalker 4.00pm – Advice and information on Lymes Disease prevention for Deer-Stalkers - Tick Talk 4.30pm - Advice and Information on Deer Stalking Dogs - Tom Hynes and various deer stalkers
A Venison BBQ and hot refreshments will be served *Warm clothes recommended *We will have large range of discounted butchery equipment available with all profits going to the association.

moby30

terminator2 wrote: »

13th Carcass Handling Seminar

February 8th 2012
Our 13th Carcass Handling Seminar will take place on Sunday February 12th at 2pm in Cahir, Co Tipperary. The venue will be sign posted on the day which is beside Cahir Castle. We would encourage members to bring as many fresh deer carcasses as possible, including the pluck for examination.
The Skill and Knowledge of Carcass Handling is something that we all require new or old to Deer-Stalking and the committee would like the support of all members for this event. There is no charge for this event, outstanding membership and new members can pay on the day.
Schedule 2.00pm – Disease identification and general deer health – John Murray, Dept. of Agriculture 3.00pm – Carcass Preparation and Home Butchery - David Dunne, Game Butcher and Deer Stalker 4.00pm – Advice and information on Lymes Disease prevention for Deer-Stalkers - Tick Talk 4.30pm - Advice and Information on Deer Stalking Dogs - Tom Hynes and various deer stalkers
A Venison BBQ and hot refreshments will be served *Warm clothes recommended *We will have large range of discounted butchery equipment available with all profits going to the association.

Better get the DeLorean out for that one:D:D
As far as I know there is no date set for this years course but although I havent done it yet myself from what I hear its a fantastic course and free to members(which is only 20 euros) so wheter youve done any of the courses already or not I reacon its worth it even just to brush up on things. This is a completely different course though from the one run by the NARGC and there is no certification at the end of it.

terminator2

you get the delorean ill bring the jump leads :D

Grizzly 45

Without boring you with all the details, if you want to sell deer or small game to a Game Dealer you will have to complete a Game Handling course before September 1st 2014, the Dept of Agri and Food Safety people have signed off on the course, which comes from an EU directive on game entering the food chain.

Three levels of paperwork. shooter,dept of Ag vet inspection,and game dealer..
Yay!!! Lets hear it for creating jobs for the beaurcrats both in the shooting world and Govt!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jay.b

thanks lads its mainly deer im interested in . the gralloch is something i want to learn to do properly. any help is greatly accepted.

daithi55

join the wild deer association they have seminars on it and show you everything about skinning butchering etc
also david dunne does some very good dvds on the issue shows how to do everything in detail from firing the shot to making a tasty meal

cant see many peeps on here offering to bring lads out anymore
they few that used to have left here for various reasons

cookimonster

The name Cookimonster is a hint to my profession.

I would agree with others the galloch and field dressing is something that is best learned on site with direct instruction.

The next task to consider is storage during the hanging phase, with the weather as un predictable as it is you will need chill / cold storage. (friend had to hand me two carcuss earlier this year during a very early indian summer)Hunt the web for secound hand commercial fridges.

Next butchery, professionally and from experience use a jib or 'A' frame to hang the carcuss. Knives, I could disect you with a pen knive, no need for a saw, clever etc, but a good strong sharp 5-6 inch 1 inch wide thick blade is good enough to do the whole job.

Disection: Do you prepare rabbits? if so the anatomey is the same = spine, fore legs with floating shoulder blades, rib cage, saddle, pelvic bone and hind legs.
Rule of thumb but not always young beast will deliver tender meat suiatble for quick cooking methods (frying, grilling etc) from head to toe and can be 'steaked out'. Older animals will yield tender meat from mid ribs along the saddle and back to the butt. All the other meat will suit slow cook such as stewing, braising and boiling whole, diced or minced.
Because there is only four in my family I 'seam' out large muscle groups (legs fore and hind) that is I break large muscles into smaller jointsby disecting along natural muscle seams. I also remove the muscle strap from the neck end all the way to the chump (but) and cut that into steaks. Any trimimings are then minced with any fat you may find (I make burgers so need the fat for moisture) and under the advice of a fellow hunter and professional butcher only mince the meat once other wise you get pate.

Storage: invest in a cheep domestic vacum packer (Lidl / Aldi) or a hand full of drinking straws and frezzer bags (google it) for long therm storage.

There is a good PDF document that you can download from the scotish deer society for every thing shooting, galloching and preperation. Will try to post the links latter

If you know a real butcher (thats another story) aks him to run you through the disection of a lamb as ith is the same cuts as what is used on venison.

Long winded but I love to hear my self type. LOL

xchrisshana

great stuff thanks

cookimonster

Here's one link to a good butchery guide:
http://www.scottish-venison.info/index.php?page=all-about-butchery

Heres a good all rounder from 'field to fork' as the say:
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/Default.aspx

Grizzly 45

Got this set to look at how to do smoking ,sausage making etc.But it has one of the best demos I have yet to see on field dressing for either trophy or meat animals.
Ok they ARE trying to subtely sell you their products which are very good indeed,at least I cant complain about their white tail skinner knife,[until I lost mine last week.:mad:]
But the technique is fast and a lot handier than most ,even if you dont have a hoist to hand..[BTW the Swiss army knife saw blade will do pelvis and chest bone no trouble]
Will be intresting to see their carcass butchering as well.
50 dollars for a 5 CD set,you could proably flog it on too.
I'm sure a poke around the net will reveal a source to watch this for free too.

cavan shooter

I got a look at the book from the NARGC course I have to say it looks good is clear and interesting.

pugw

@ cookimonster! Good post, what age animal would be the cut off for steaks that would be fairly tender?

garv123

pugw wrote: »

@ cookimonster! Good post, what age animal would be the cut off for steaks that would be fairly tender?

A nice pricket is fairly tastey with plenty of meet to pack up the freezer.

The older the animal gets the less tastier and tougher it is I find, im sure lads have better cooking techniques to make it better.

A lot of people who say they dont like venison who got it in a shop ended up getting a big old stag that someone shot to bring to the game dealer, who were thinking of the weight=money instead of the meat for the table.


The mouths starting to water thinking of September

cookimonster

Bed spilling......

garv123 wrote: »

A nice pricket is fairly taste with plenty of meet to pack up the freezer.

The older the animal gets the less tastier and tougher it is I find, im sure lads have better cooking techniques to make it better.

A lot of people who say they dont like venison who got it in a shop ended up getting a big old stag that someone shot to bring to the game dealer, who were thinking of the weight=money instead of the meat for the table.


The mouths starting to water thinking of September

Very true the older the beast the more muscle mass, but now you must balance age, mass and condition. Too young to little meat, too old too tough. Two year old well conditioned ie well fed and fit will be good.
Stags during the rut should in theroy be tougher due to the testosterone and adrenaline pumping through them and after the rut they are spent due to thier mind been on one thing only and not feeding properly ( sounds like an average saturday night ).
This may spark debate, but it is considered a strong factor in the meat processing trade, the mental condition of the animal at its time of death will impact on the quality of meat in respect to tenderness. If the animal is relaxed and calm prior to slaughter the meat tends to be tender, but no matter what its condition or age if it is stressed then it will tougher (quick kill, did not know what hit em)
Longer periods of hanging will aid tenderisation but if you start off with tougher meat all you end up with is a slightly tenderer gamier tasting meat. Todays game eater seams to prefer a milder tasting meat then the more tradtional flavours of yester year.
Hanging is important minimum of 7 days would be my guideline, but and there is always a but, if freezing is a option (which is the general practice seen here on the forums) IMO you may cut the hanging time down to a few days, but this will impact some what on overall flavour.
Home freezing is a slow process that allows ice crystals to form slowly and therefore bigger which inturn damages the meat ruptureing cells etc, on the whole this is bad, but it does add to tenderisation as it damges conective tissue as well as mussel fibre. Again this will do little for tougher meats but will make up for shorter hanging times. Usefull if you do not have cold storage and ambient temperatures begin to rise.
Do not dismiss older animals as they develop a finer flavour, adapt your intended use ie stews, mince products, braising (half roast half stew), pot roast, slow roast, confit ( not for the cholesterol afflicted among you), marination etc.
Remember this is a wild product and unlike the shop bought meat has lttle or no engineering towards precise age, muscle mass, grade etc at its time of harvest, better men then me here will be able to give pointers in the selection of animals for culling in field .
Looking forward to reading others opinions and insights.

Grizzly 45

Wonder would wood smoking or making Jerky out of an older beast improve its texture or taste.?
I suppose if you ran it 3times thru the mincer as the Outdoor edge video suggests for venison jerky is going to sort out the "chewable" factor alright.:)

cookimonster

Jerky and smoking of meats was originaly an early method of preservation by either the reduction of moisture content or the presence of tannins found in smoke. This pre-dates canning, freezing etc.
When dealing with tougher cuts reduce cooking temperatures and increase cooking times.

daithi55

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wonder would wood smoking or making Jerky out of an older beast improve its texture or taste.?
I suppose if you ran it 3times thru the mincer as the Outdoor edge video suggests for venison jerky is going to sort out the "chewable" factor alright.:)

heres a smoker i made before grizz did the job fine
in the middle of making a stainless steel version now
just for apperiance is all wont function any better http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70517998

Grizzly 45

Outstanding Daithi!:D
I was thinking of using a galvanised dustbin[new of course!] for mine,and a single hot plate,cooker element and/or for the heat source.But I think I can scrounge most of the bits from the junkpile around here to build your version.The Barrel would deffo give you more space to hang haunches etc.:)

pheasntstalker

that is feckin savage:D:D:D i.d deffo like to try that ,this is way i love this forum :D ya learn something new everyday nearly,thanks daithi for the inspriation:D