If ......

w124man

.... someone organised a car show for original Irish cars, how many would show up. I might be wrong but it seems 90% of the cars that are exibited seem to be imported

bbsrs

w124man wrote: »

.... someone organised a car show for original Irish cars, how many would show up. I might be wrong but it seems 90% of the cars that are exibited seem to be imported

What would be the difference between original Irish cars and imported ones from a classic car enthusiasts point of view , if you had a show for original Irish cars you would exclude a very large amount of cars for no good reason.
Pre the "Celtic Tiger" era most cars bought new in Ireland were poverty spec so if you want a well speced or sports model classic you have to buy an import .
If you want to differentiate between the two at a show just have a section for cars registered from new in the state.

carchaeologist

w124man wrote: »

.... someone organised a car show for original Irish cars, how many would show up. I might be wrong but it seems 90% of the cars that are exibited seem to be imported

I have considered this but it's impossible due to the amount of ringer cars out there. No one would know what was actually genuine original!!

kev1.3s

bbsrs wrote: »

What would be the difference between original Irish cars and imported ones from a classic car enthusiasts point of view , if you had a show for original Irish cars you would exclude a very large amount of cars for no good reason.
Pre the "Celtic Tiger" era most cars bought new in Ireland were poverty spec so if you want a well speced or sports model classic you have to buy an import .
If you want to differentiate between the two at a show just have a section for cars registered from new in the state.

This is mostly true but some people are have an interest in the history of the vehicle as well as the car! I must admit I find it pretty hear twarming myself to see original cars too.

w124man

bbsrs wrote: »

What would be the difference between original Irish cars and imported ones from a classic car enthusiasts point of view , if you had a show for original Irish cars you would exclude a very large amount of cars for no good reason.
If you want to differentiate between the two at a show just have a section for cars registered from new in the state.

My thinking is quite simple really in that genuine Irish classic cars are so rare and to have a genuine one is so much more difficult because cars were much thinner on the ground back in the day. I would hazard a guess, for example, that there are more imported MGB's than genuine Irish ones in total!

Capri

carchaeologist wrote: »

I have considered this but it's impossible due to the amount of ringer cars out there. No one would know what was actually genuine original!!

This is mostly true but some people are have an interest in the history of the vehicle as well as the car! I must admit I find it pretty hear twarming myself to see original cars too

Saw an RZX (?) reg on a R Rover P38 today :eek:

I do prefer to see 'survivors' rather than imports - partially because they show that SOME people didn't panic when the NCT was announced with it's attendent spin ( '80% of cars will fail the NCT so trade your 'banger' in against a shiny new motor TODAY !!!!' ) that forced servicable cars onto the scrapheap.:mad:

Photos here show that a lot survived and they are possibly better chassis wise than UK imports that have salt eaten chassis !!! :eek::eek:

deckie27

I've owned a fair few classics over the last lotish of years, some Irish. I even commented to my wife at mosney about the amount of imports. bottom line the Irish people and weather didn't look after there cars as well as some others. I''ve currently 3 classics originally from California, Sweden & the UK. (UK car must of lived indoors during winter)

mattroche

While the scrappage deals did away with a lot of good cars, about 30 years ago a man I know in London brought in a Mobile Car Crusher to Ireland, and crushed a lot of old cars, which now would be classics. If hindsight was foresight we would all be millionares. The man with the crusher centainly is, many times over, and good luck to him.

corktina

The thing is, the priviledges we get as Classic Car owners are based on their historic value. What historic relevance does a "swimmer" have , except it is similar to a car which may have existed here once?

In my eyes a base model 1300 Cortina with a bench seat and colomn change, built in Cork (CKD of course but still...) has more relevance than an imported Mk3 2000GXL which would have been a very rare bird back in the day.

The quantity of imports and particularly those that have been ringed, effectively devalue the native Irish examples, which should be revered a lot more, there are so few genuine ones out there OTR

alastair

The preciousness about imports is misplaced imo. Pretty much everything was imported originally in any case (even the CKD stuff). Anything that was properly manufactured here is great to have, but that's always been a small minority of what's been on the roads. The historic value of the cars isn't to do with their provenance, it's to do with their technology, design, social impact, etc. I, and most people (I'd guess) really don't care if, say, a Morris Traveller is a recent import, or an old CKD model - it's the same identical car, that you would have seen on the roads back then, one way or another.

For the more exotic stuff, that you had to import back in the day, it makes absolutely no odds.

Disclaimer - owner of a UK imported classic that was never sold here in the first place.

corktina

what then is to stop me importing a DC3 and painting it in Aer Lingus livery and claiming it as being of historic importance,? or an ex London Transport RT and painting it in CIE colours and claiming it to be an original? or the Flying Scotsman in GSR colours...?

Henry Ford said "History is bunk"...about the only thing I don't agree with him on

Sam Russell

corktina wrote: »

what then is to stop me importing a DC3 and painting it in Aer Lingus livery and claiming it as being of historic importance,? or an ex London Transport RT and painting it in CIE colours and claiming it to be an original? or the Flying Scotsman in GSR colours...?

Henry Ford said "History is bunk"...about the only thing I don't agree with him on

Might have trouble with that, running on CIE tracks. Different gauge.

alastair

corktina wrote: »

what then is to stop me importing a DC3 and painting it in Aer Lingus livery and claiming it as being of historic importance,?

It's still a DC3 - an extremely historic aircraft, irrespective of whether it was an Aer Lingus plane or not.

And who is dressing their ZV cars as 'pretend' Irish cars? It's a straw man argument.

hi5

I like the whole idea of 'the restoration', taking something unloved and unwanted and bringing it back from the dead. Theres blood ,sweat ,tears and knowledge involved.
The whole zv thing gives it the two fingers and says 'money talks' it just seems shallow.

alastair

hi5 wrote: »

I like the whole idea of 'the restoration', taking something unloved and unwanted and bringing it back from the dead. Theres blood ,sweat ,tears and knowledge involved.
The whole zv thing gives it the two fingers and says 'money talks' it just seems shallow.

Absolute baloney. As someone who's spent literally years restoring my 'shallow' ZV car, I'd love to recoup the time, money, and expertise that's gone into getting it to where it is today - but sadly, it's probably pretty damned close to that time, money, and expertise expended on any 'native' (ie: imported earlier) car.

What about those who just go and buy an old Irish reg restored car today off donedeal or whatever? Equally giving the two fingers fingers to restorers? Really - such nonsense.

corktina

Sam Russell wrote: »

Might have trouble with that, running on CIE tracks. Different gauge.

i didnt say a word about running it...the NRM cant get the thing going, what makes you think I can?

Justjens

hi5 wrote: »

I like the whole idea of 'the restoration', taking something unloved and unwanted and bringing it back from the dead. Theres blood ,sweat ,tears and knowledge involved.
The whole zv thing gives it the two fingers and says 'money talks' it just seems shallow.

It's the restoration that costs, not the shipping of a Uk car, so it's nothing to do with 'money talks'.

Been there with two cars form England, one in boxes requiring a full resto, and one picked up for a fraction of the rebuild cost. Both now on ZV plates but one cost a lot more, both financially and with 'blood, sweat, tears and knowledge'.

You cannot tar every ZV car with the same brush without knowing the full story.

corktina

alastair wrote: »

It's still a DC3 - an extremely historic aircraft, irrespective of whether it was an Aer Lingus plane or not.

And who is dressing their ZV cars as 'pretend' Irish cars? It's a straw man argument.

ah but what if it were a completely different spec to the ones Aer Lingus (probably) had...would that not be mis-representing History? In years to come serious students of Irish Aviation History could be fooled into thinking AL did in fact have a fleet of mk6a turbo DC3s when everyone knows that they only flew normally aspirated ones with peat-burning engines.

Big Nasty

Next time you go to a show, no matter how small, count the number of original Irish as opposed to imports (although as a previous poster said they're all imports). Including the ringers I would stab a generous 1:4 in favour of imports.

I think it's 'nice' to see an original 'Irish' car but I don't put any additional value on it.

kev1.3s

hi5 wrote: »

I like the whole idea of 'the restoration', taking something unloved and unwanted and bringing it back from the dead. Theres blood ,sweat ,tears and knowledge involved.
The whole zv thing gives it the two fingers and says 'money talks' it just seems shallow.

I agree and disagree with that its excellent to take a wreck of an Irish car out of the field it's been languishing in for the last twenty years or so and fix her up a process I know all to much about because I'm currently up to my neck in one and yes it would have been far simpler to buy an off the shelf car in the UK but I kinda got caught up a little in the plate thing and wouldn't have it any other way! On the other I have a friend also caught up in the same kind of story as me all the pain and expense but his car was never available in the republic new so it'll be a zv car but no less a labour of love than mine, with the added bonus that I can guarantee when it's finished you'll not see another one like it at a show. I'm not excited about run of the mill cars and coming over but its nice to see cars that we wouldn't get to see normally .

swarlb

Does it really matter where the car came from, or what kind of registration plate it carries. All old cars have a 'history' of some sorts. If that history involves it moving from country to country, all the better. One of my cars was built in Italy, so is a genuine Italian car. It was imported to the UK in the 60's and then imported into Ireland in the 90's.
I have another car of the same model, which was also built in Italy, and imported into Ireland in the 50's (not an easy thing to do). It carries 'an original Irish registration plate', and is the only version of this model to ever have an 'original Irish registration plate', so is it Irish, or a 'swimmer'..and who cares anyway?
I was in conversation recently with a friend who is very precious about 'original Irish cars',we were discussing a forthcoming auction of 30/40's cars being auctioned abroad, most of which were imported either in period, or later. His general consensus was that 'they were no loss' to the country.
The loss to me, was that people genuinly interested in old cars will never get to see them again (unless they travel abroad of course)

shawnee

corktina wrote: »

The thing is, the priviledges we get as Classic Car owners are based on their historic value. What historic relevance does a "swimmer" have , except it is similar to a car which may have existed here once?

In my eyes a base model 1300 Cortina with a bench seat and colomn change, built in Cork (CKD of course but still...) has more relevance than an imported Mk3 2000GXL which would have been a very rare bird back in the day.

The quantity of imports and particularly those that have been ringed, effectively devalue the native Irish examples, which should be revered a lot more, there are so few genuine ones out there OTR

The importation of classic cars has fuelled the interest in Ireland quite a bit. Indeed I am sure that many clubs or indeed many shows would not continue if only original Irish cars were allowed. See the bigger picture and realise that some are interested and indeed in a position to restore something that's been rotting in a field for many years , others have not the necessary skills to do so and buy one in the UK. They are all "classic cars"