Make be of interest

redsurfer

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-called-in-reserves-to-cope-with-park-chaos-3190025.html

Myrddin

From the article:

At least 15 unpaid Garda reservists, who do not have the power of arrest, were on duty inside and outside the event area throughout the day and had to contend with very serious public order breaches.

Surely it's a good basis for having public order powers for reserves

redsurfer

Moderators, my mistake I created two trends, can you delete one. cheers.

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

From the article:



Surely it's a good basis for having public order powers for reserves

They have public order powers under section 21 at all major public events, just some Reserve Members dont know about it, but they should be made known to them.

Myrddin

bluetop wrote: »

They have public order powers under section 21 at all major public events, just some Reserve Members dont know about it, but they should be made known to them.

Powers of arrest or simply 'move along there or I'll have to call my full time friend over to move you along'?

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

Powers of arrest or simply 'move along there or I'll have to call my full time friend over to move you along'?

Nope they dont need a full timer with them, 4,6,8.

DMRW

bluetop wrote: »

Nope they dont need a full timer with them, 4,6,8.

Bluetop, what are you stating? Reserves have a power of arrest under s21?

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

Bluetop, what are you stating? Reserves have a power of arrest under s21?

I suggest you read what i posted **PUBLIC EVENTS ONLY** and if you are unsure about this i would ask you training Sgt.

DMRW

EnterNow asked whether reserves have power of arrest or 'move along there or I'll have to call my full time friend over to move you along'. Move along or... would be the right answer. Reserves do not have s21 POA or any powers under said act and this is what my training sergeant said to us. And I'm not questioning his credibility and competence as he is still in CPD and is very well known in professional environment.

Also I cannot understand what do you mean by mentioning s4,6,8? Again, it's not available to reserves (yet). What you are actually doing in the events like Phoenix Park gig is assisting full time members.

Tyron Jara

Our current powers:


Road Traffic Act 1961/2006

• Power to demand production of driving licence in accordance with Section 40 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006;
• Power to demand production of a certificate of insurance or exemption in accordance with Section 69 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Power to regulate traffic movement in accordance with Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Power to require person driving vehicle in a public place to stop in accordance with Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.

Power of arrest without warrant

• Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
• Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

No public order powers here yet but we are getting them.

DMRW

Tyron Jara wrote: »

Our current powers:


Road Traffic Act 1961/2006

• Power to demand production of driving licence in accordance with Section 40 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006;
• Power to demand production of a certificate of insurance or exemption in accordance with Section 69 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Power to regulate traffic movement in accordance with Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Power to require person driving vehicle in a public place to stop in accordance with Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.

Power of arrest without warrant

• Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
• Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
• Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

No public order powers here yet but we are getting them.

Just gonna add this under RTA:

'The following powers derive to the Garda reserve members in certain circumstances as a natural consequence of the above stated powers:

Power of arrest without warrant
- Section 107 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.'

Thats from my Policy and Procedure Manual.

There is a difference between 'can do' physically and 'can do' legally. Arresting someone under Public order act as a reserve is ultra vires and may result in one particular section applied to the same. Section 15 under non fatal '97.

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

EnterNow asked whether reserves have power of arrest or 'move along there or I'll have to call my full time friend over to move you along'. Move along or... would be the right answer. Reserves do not have s21 POA or any powers under said act and this is what my training sergeant said to us. And I'm not questioning his credibility and competence as he is still in CPD and is very well known in professional environment.

Also I cannot understand what do you mean by mentioning s4,6,8? Again, it's not available to reserves (yet). What you are actually doing in the events like Phoenix Park gig is assisting full time members.

I suggest you ask him again, there was a lot of us at a cpd course not so long ago and that was the topic we where covering, section21 is for reserves to use while at "public events", do you think if it was not available i would put it up, there would be no point, S21 covers 4,6,8. the S21 is your power of arrest, as i have said and others as well, depends on your station what they allow you to do and not do, same as FCPS, some have them while others are not allowed issue them.

DMRW

I would love to be in that CPD course and ask some questions about that, or the information was misinterpreted?

Mate, s21 is a power to cordon off an area (phoenix park, aviva, croker, local event) by a super. When it is done you have a power to search patrons, seize booze and weapons, refuse admission into the area. s21 has no power of arrest. If someone kicks off and tells you to go fcuk yourself (thats s6) and is locked (s4) he/she can be arrested under s24 (thats the power of arrest). s8 is when you tell someone to move on and he/she fails. Thats when you use s24 to lift them. (No such power for reserves).

Now the mere fact that reserves are being told that s21 is for them, doesn't meant you can even think about 4,6,8 especially 24.

Tell you something, this job is great when you do what your superiors tell you to do. Unfortunately, some superiors have absolutely no idea what to so with the reserves and lets them improvise. Also the don't like to admit that they don't know the answers to your questions. If your superior will tell you that you have a power to lift someone (in public order event) under s21, I suggest you having that in writing, because when you will be standing in front of commission asked what the hell were you doing, your superior will likely deny everything.

Nobody will know that the reserve is issuing FCPS, taking cars under s41, executing warrants, filling custody record, driving official vehicles, participating in arms training with DDU, until you get caught and have to account for your 'beyond powers' actions. So I'd advice to think twice before issuing tickets or applying every section of the act which begins with 'where a member of the Garda Siochana...'.

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

I would love to be in that CPD course and ask some questions about that, or the information was misinterpreted?

Mate, s21 is a power to cordon off an area (phoenix park, aviva, croker, local event) by a super. When it is done you have a power to search patrons, seize booze and weapons, refuse admission into the area. s21 has no power of arrest. If someone kicks off and tells you to go fcuk yourself (thats s6) and is locked (s4) he/she can be arrested under s24 (thats the power of arrest). s8 is when you tell someone to move on and he/she fails. Thats when you use s24 to lift them. (No such power for reserves).

Now the mere fact that reserves are being told that s21 is for them, doesn't meant you can even think about 4,6,8 especially 24.

Tell you something, this job is great when you do what your superiors tell you to do. Unfortunately, some superiors have absolutely no idea what to so with the reserves and lets them improvise. Also the don't like to admit that they don't know the answers to your questions. If your superior will tell you that you have a power to lift someone (in public order event) under s21, I suggest you having that in writing, because when you will be standing in front of commission asked what the hell were you doing, your superior will likely deny everything.

Nobody will know that the reserve is issuing FCPS, taking cars under s41, executing warrants, filling custody record, driving official vehicles, participating in arms training with DDU, until you get caught and have to account for your 'beyond powers' actions. So I'd advice to think twice before issuing tickets or applying every section of the act which begins with 'where a member of the Garda Siochana...'.

Sorry for the late reply had to go searching for the correct info, above is incorrect as i was just trying to remember of the top of my head.

Arrest Without Warrant

Section 24 (1) Public Order Act, 94

Member may arrest a person found committing an offence under a relevant provision

• Section 24 (2) Public Order Act, 94

• Where a member is of the Opinion an offence has been committed, member may

(a) Demand name and address

(b) Arrest a person who

• Fails/Refuses

• Gives False / Misleading

Section 24 (3) Public Order Act, 94

Any Person who fails / refuses to give name and address or gives false / misleading

• Name and address

• Shall be guilty of an offence

Section 24 (4) Public Order Act, 94

• A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3)

• Summery conviction

• Fine nor exceeding €500

• 6 Months Imprisonment.

DMRW

No bother. Yes I am fully aware of s24 reserves haven't got this section yet.
And if you are looking for acts use irishstatute.ie