Lie on mortgage application

Thespoofer

Just thinking out loud here, what would happen say if an applicant for a mortgage had a couple of kids but on the form put down they didn't have any hence upping their chances of mortgage approval ?

Would the bank find out ? Is this a crime or what ?

Any thoughts welcome

Gmol

Thespoofer wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here, what would happen say if an applicant for a mortgage had a couple of kids but on the form put down they didn't have any hence upping their chances of mortgage approval ?

Would the bank find out ? Is this a crime or what ?

Any thoughts welcome

Not a good idea for you in that that in future interest rates will rise and this could cause you difficulties. This was part of the problem for a lot of people who mislead banks in the first place ie not saving their deposits. The stress test is also their to protect you as well as the bank

odds_on

Where a false representation is made knowingly (fraudulent misrepresentation) and it has the result of inducing another party to enter into a contract, the party who was misled may sue for rescission of the contract and/or may sue for damages in the tort of deceit.

Marcusm

odds_on wrote: »

Where a false representation is made knowingly (fraudulent misrepresentation) and it has the result of inducing another party to enter into a contract, the party who was misled may sue for rescission of the contract and/or may sue for damages in the tort of deceit.

Those are the civil law aspects, it might also be an offence under s7 Criminal Law (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

A really idiotic thing to consider, OP.

the groutch

if you're claiming mortgage interest relief and get caught, the revenue will come down on you like a tonne of bricks for claiming tax relief on a fraudulently obtained mortgage.

Thespoofer

Ahem, as I said, just thinking out loud so to speak...better knock that on the head so..:rolleyes:

phormium

Back in the boom times I often saw children 'misplaced' between being turned down for mortgage in branch and application appearing again through broker. Biggest giveaway though is childrens allowance going into bank account. Not advisable, not because you could get caught, more because maybe you won't be able to afford it.

mikemac1

Don't worry about the bank, you can talk to them and deal with them if you are found out in a few years

It's Revenue you need to worry about, if they want you they will nail you

jimmycrackcorm

I think it would be strange that a bank would assume, if there were no children already, that a mortgage applicant might not want to acquire some post purchase and what effect that might have on ability to pay a mortgage.

phormium

The bank only take into account the present situation, anything else wouldn't work, sure they could assume then that you might be intending to have 10 children or take in elderly parents or anything that could be a drain on your finances.

Don't see how Revenue could be involved, you would be getting mortgage interest relief on interest you were paying, nothing wrong there. It would be the greatest joke ever if someone decided to defraud Revenue to get 20c and had to pay €1 of interest to get it, not a great return.

JustAThought

I don't think anyone would throw you in prison for it; let's face it suspended sentences are the norm even for convicted rapists nowadays it seems; but kids are expensive ...." forgetting" that you had two ( or 3 or 4!!) could lead you into deeptrouble ; and they might repossess. There's all your savings & future chances to own down the swanny.

Houses are going down & down these days ; I've seen some for 150-180k, let alone 250k. What price were you hoping tobuy at to have to forget your kids!!? Could you lower your range a little & still buy? State agents arnt putting the " real" prices in " windows"... You might find you can buy without the big lie...

The_Conductor

The bank look at the situation right here, right now. If you misrepresent the facts in order to secure funds from them- you are in breach of any contract they may offer you, and they can pursue you (and increasingly are doing so- a number of customers who secured mortgages during boom years by misrepresenting bonuses and/or familial situations- are having the terms of their mortgages changed (and as per the recent judgement- they have not been allowed to keep tracker mortgages, where others have been)).

You also- and potentially far more seriously- are defrauding Revenue- which has very far reaching consequences- whatever about what the bank might do- Revenues power's far exceed those of the bank.........

Henry Ford III

Can't see how the Revenue would be interested. The mortage may have been obtained incorrectly from an underwriting perspective, but why would the number of the borrowers children affect mortgage interest tax relief?



p.s. Making a dishonest mortgage application is stupid in any event,

The_Conductor

If the contract is void and terminated- the borrower will have fraudulently claimed (on the basis of a false contract) x amount of tax relief that they were not entitled to?

Henry Ford III

smccarrick wrote: »

If the contract is void and terminated- the borrower will have fraudulently claimed (on the basis of a false contract) x amount of tax relief that they were not entitled to?

Borrower under those circumstances would legimately be entitled claim whatever mortgage interest relief he/she paid until termination.

I can't see any Revenue issue with that.

The_Conductor

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Borrower under those circumstances would legimately be entitled claim whatever mortgage interest relief he/she paid until termination.

I can't see any Revenue issue with that.

Revenue do.
See the rules governing TRS........

Henry Ford III

smccarrick wrote: »

Revenue do.
See the rules governing TRS........

Sorry I'm not be argumentative, but "Revenue do" what exactly?

There are two separate issues imho.

1/. Mortgage obtained on the basis of false information. That's an issue for the lender.

2/. Mortgage interest paid. The number of children you included/excluded on your mortgage application shouldn't affect this surely?

cookie1977

I think what he means is is you lied to get the mortgage then it may be invalid and therefore if you're claiming TRS on an invalid mortgage you could be in trouble with revenue

Henry Ford III

cookie1977 wrote: »

I think what he means is is you lied to get the mortgage then it may be invalid and therefore if you're claiming TRS on an invalid mortgage you could be in trouble with revenue

Gotcha.

In the boom times people routinely told outrageous porkies regarding mortgages - self certification was a comedy.

No Revenue issues regarding any interest paid on those as far as I know.

Glenbhoy

Is your child benefit paid directly into your bank or do you collect in cash?

[Jackass]

Very bad idea OP. Also, have we learnt nothing here?? If you have to lie to get your mortgage, you probably can't afford it. And if you can't afford it, how do you intend to pay it? Don't we need to look beyond the next 12 - 36 months when entering into a 30+ year contract. ECB rates are the lowest they have been in the history of the bank. Expect them to tripple and quadroople over the term of that mortgage...

Fraud is never a good idea. But it really really saddens me in the current enviornment that there are still people who've learnt nothing...

Monty Burnz

Thespoofer wrote: »

Ahem, as I said, just thinking out loud so to speak...better knock that on the head so..:rolleyes:

Oddly enough, there are thousands of people like you who were willing to beg, borrow and steal to buy a property during the bubble who are now blaming the banks and anyone else they can think of for them now being up a creek.

People are strange.

killers1

smccarrick wrote: »

If the contract is void and terminated- the borrower will have fraudulently claimed (on the basis of a false contract) x amount of tax relief that they were not entitled to?

Whether you have dependents or not is completely irrelevant to whether you have kids or not and your entitlement is the same in either scenario. So the OP's question is irrelevant from a Revenue point of view. Where the OP would have a major difficulty would be if they ever ended up in court and were fighting to keep their home....the fact that they lied about the number of dependents they had would be frowned upon by the Judge and would seriously hinder any case they are trying to present...

Thespoofer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Thespoofer wrote: »

Ahem, as I said, just thinking out loud so to speak...better knock that on the head so..:rolleyes:

Oddly enough, there are thousands of people like you who were willing to beg, borrow and steal to buy a property during the bubble who are now blaming the banks and anyone else they can think of for them now being up a creek.

People are strange.

Hi Monty

I think you may be mistaken there...

1. I'm not up a creek.
2. I'm not blaming banks or anyone else.

In fact I'm in an ok/managable position. Yes I am in neg equity but I plan on fully paying back what I borrowed for said property but won't let it drag us under and intend to move on from it, eventually.
I blame both the borrowers and lenders during the crazy days, not just ' the banks ', personal responsibility was lacking on both sides of course.

Monty Burnz

Thespoofer wrote: »

Hi Monty

I think you may be mistaken there...

1. I'm not up a creek.
2. I'm not blaming banks or anyone else.

Apologies, I thought you were at the point of seeking a mortgage - that was the impression I got from your post.