Why has Blu ray not taken off ?

Jumboman

Just wondering why Blu ray has not taken off in computers ? I remember when DVD came out 3 years after its release evey new PC had a DVD drive. Blu ray is out 6 years now and still most new computers can not even play Blu ray.

PseudoFamous

You can put a bluray drive in any computer you want.. It hasn't really taken off, though, because we're moving away from physical media, and are using services like Netflix, Steam and iTunes as alternatives, thanks to highspeed internet increasing in availability

PogMoThoin

Because discs are bulky, memory cards and usb keys can be gotten in large sizes and are lots smaller and re-writable. My HTPC under my TV doesn't even have a drive, I've no need for one. All my media is either downloaded or streamed from the internet

Outkast_IRE

Jumboman wrote: »

Just wondering why Blu ray has not taken off in computers ? I remember when DVD came out 3 years after its release evey new PC had a DVD drive. Blu ray is out 6 years now and still most new computers can not even play Blu ray.

because dvd took off like a shot on computers because some of the biggest new games discs were DVD so you had to have a dvd drive to play.

This hasnt happened with bluray as its uncessary , the game will be pusblished on a dvd with additonal content downloaded from online automatically.

Bluray has its place, as the premier way to watch true high definiton movies, and people will always collect such things. I have about 100 bluray movies , as i have large high def tvs, and think the quality difference is worth it for top class titiles.

Unless you have a 40 inch plus monitor on the computer i dont think the investment is worth it.

Combination of high-speed downloads and memory sticks/external harddrives. I got through a few hundred DVD-Rs for back-up around 2008 before massive external harddrive prices starting popping up everywhere for pretty low prices so by the time Blu-Ray would've been going mainstream I had no need for swapping out discs with low read/write speeds and high latency.

Jumboman

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Unless you have a 40 inch plus monitor on the computer i dont think the investment is worth it.

I have a 22inch monitor which I watch films on the difference between DVD and Blu ray is like night and day.

Torqay

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Unless you have a 40 inch plus monitor on the computer i dont think the investment is worth it.

DVDs need to be upscaled on any display bigger than 480p in height and there is a hell of a difference in the quality compared to 720p and 1080p videos.

RUCKING FETARD

Fast Internet, piracy, Big Screen TV Sales are slowing/starting to fall, most people are happy to watch Full HD 2GB "Blu Rays" on 15 inch lappys.

JDxtra

Expensive drives, expensive discs, slow to burn.

JDxtra

JDxtra wrote: »

Expensive drives, expensive discs, slow to burn.

I use Taiyo Yuden BD50s and I get them about the same per GB as a good (eg Verbatim) DVD 4.7GB.

And a 6x Bluray burns at a higher speed (MB/s) than a 16x DVD.
4x Bluray burns a little slower than 16x DVD but without all the disc swapping you can still burn 50GB quicker.

I don't think burning speed or cost has much to do with the slow uptake of BluRay drives.

You could say the average person doesnt have a need for burning 50GB to a disc. But once somebody does have a need, the price and speed is actually quite attractive.

Rucking Fetard wrote:

Big Screen TV Sales are slowing/starting to fall

According to your own link, demand for large screens (40"+) is increasing.

Torqay

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think burning speed or cost has much to do with the slow uptake of BluRay drives.

Even if you buy cheap media in bulk, you're not getting anywhere near the HDD storage costs per GB (> 5 cents)... and you'll have to buy a burner.

Torqay

Torqay wrote: »

Even if you buy cheap media in bulk, you're not getting anywhere near the HDD storage costs per GB (> 5 cents)... and you'll have to buy a burner.

Not true actually. I pay 6c per GB for Taiyo Yuden BD50s and currently a 2TB drive runs around €100 (5c per GB). Im sure if I used a no-name brand I could beat HDD storage costs.

In any case it's irrelevant because its a different type of storage media with different uses and maintenance costs.

And the question was why did Bluray drives not catch on the way DVD drives did.

Torqay

Well, that's a difference of 20%, and not only will you have to purchase a burner, you can only read the disks in computers/laptops with at least a BR combo drive, which are still rather exotic.

As for "cheap no-name", I would not trust my data some cheap media, which have a potentially higher fault rate and lower life time.

HDDs are way more economical and they do indeed play a significant role regarding the question at hand, as cheap 1 TB HDDs hit the market around the same time as Bluray. And you can use them on any computer/laptop/tablet/media player with a USB port.

BostonB

Torqay wrote: »

DVDs need to be upscaled on any display bigger than 480p in height and there is a hell of a difference in the quality compared to 720p and 1080p videos.

I don't think a lot of people can see it. Sometimes I ask people what they think of image quality on some device I think is brutal and they think its great, which kinda kills that conversation.

cornbb

Because optical media has had its day.

BostonB

Personally I think running things of a HD is a bit of a pain, trying to find the lowest common denominator for the file formats across all your devices is just a PITA. The quality of streams and even HD content from sat/cable can be not the best quality.

Torqay

Torqay wrote: »

Well, that's a difference of 20%, and not only will you have to purchase a burner, you can only read the disks in computers/laptops with at least a BR combo drive, which are still rather exotic.

As for "cheap no-name", I would not trust my data some cheap media, which have a potentially higher fault rate and lower life time.

That's beside the point. You said that even with cheap media you couldn't get 'anywhere near' HDD price per GB. I showed that you can.

HDDs are way more economical and they do indeed play a significant role regarding the question at hand, as cheap 1 TB HDDs hit the market around the same time as Bluray. And you can use them on any computer/laptop/tablet/media player with a USB port.

More economical under what useage scenario? Only a beginner would speak in such absolute terms. Data professionals look at the bigger picture, you use different storage mediums for different scenarios.

Torqay

Deleted User wrote: »

Only a beginner would speak in such absolute terms. Data professionals look at the bigger picture, you use different storage mediums for different scenarios.

Data professionals hardly use niche products with an uncertain future for data storage.

Even with regard to movie sales, Bluray has only achieved a market share of 25% in its 6 years of existence, despite being vastly superior to the DVD. In computer sales, Bluray doesn't play a role worth mentioning and most drives being sold are still only DVD RW/BR combo drives.

Besides, the 50 GB Bluray standard is outdated since BDXL hit the shelves last year. Has the price come down below 100 dollar yet? (I don't mean the drive but a single blank medium)

BostonB

Torqay wrote: »

Data professionals hardly use niche products with an uncertain future for data storage....

Whats a data professional?

Smart people would use a number of different mediums including I assume Bluray if the speed and cost was cost effective for them.

Torqay

BostonB wrote: »

Whats a data professional?

You'll have to ask Deleted User, remember, I'm only the beginner here.

BostonB wrote: »

Smart people would use a number of different mediums including I assume Bluray if the speed and cost was cost effective for them.

Optical drives are not suitable for scheduled incremental backups. And their speed is no match for HDDs

If I want to use optical discs for storage, I still much prefer the DVD over the Blu-Ray disc for the simple reason that I'll find a DVD drive in pretty much any PC or laptop, it's a matter of accessibility. However, with the rise of netbooks, smartphones and tablet computers, free/cheap cloud storage, online movie/entertainment distribution and indeed reasonably priced flash memory, the era of optical discs is coming to an end, rather sooner than later.

You will still be able to buy optical drives and media (just as well as you can still find audio cassette tapes and players) but due to the falling demand, prices will go up rather than down. Long gone are the days when there were huge piles of blank DVDs at the supermarket tills, probably the most obvious indicator for a market decline.

BostonB

A lot of creatives I know would use optical media for archiving projects. DVD can feel a little small, so I assume some might use bluray now instead. Considering the creative industries history with Zip, Jazz, PD drives, LS120 and the like, I don't think people would have a problem with optical media like bluray.

While I use disks for my main backups, taking a snapshot on DVD has saved me when some unexpected and undetected error happens on one disk/backup and is propagated to the other disks/backup before you realise it. Sometimes a disconnected read only medium can prevent this.

That said I've noticed a few now using cloud based backup, especially if they are moving around a lot.

Torqay

Torqay wrote: »

Data professionals hardly use niche products with an uncertain future for data storage.

Optical storage isn't a niche product and has been used for decades for snapshots, backups, archives, distribution.

It has its place just the same as tape still does. And it will continue to do so in the future.

Torqay

Deleted User wrote: »

Optical storage isn't a niche product

Not talking about "optical storage" per se but the Blu-Ray disc as a storage medium, which is very much "niche" in computing, even more so the new standard BDXL, a logical development which exclusively targets data storage (since the movie industry did not adopt this standard and is very unlikely to do so as they had enough trouble to push BR sales with existing set top boxes), the pricing for blank media is utterly ridiculous and will not spark much enthusiasm.

Torqay

Torqay wrote: »

Not talking about "optical storage" per se but the Blu-Ray disc as a storage medium, which is very much "niche" in computing, even more so the new standard BDXL, a logical development which exclusively targets data storage (since the movie industry did not adopt this standard and is very unlikely to do so as they had enough trouble to push BR sales with existing set top boxes), the pricing for blank media is utterly ridiculous and will not spark much enthusiasm.

BDXL blanks are priced so highly because they're made in tiny quantities by a handful of manufacturers. It was no different with DVD-R, if you're old enough you'll remember when a DVD-DL cost £50+ and a writer cost £1000. New tech always costs.

Like I said already, burners and blank media have very little bearing on the slow adoption of Bluray drives.

It comes back to commercial movies and software/games. That's what helped pushed DVD drives into the mainstream.

Torqay

Jeez, BDXL ain't "new tech", it's on the market for more than a year...

And no, "commercial movies/software" will not help pushing Blu-Ray into mainstream. If you are old enough you'll remember when the DVD came out, most people were on dial-up connections (a few lucky ones had ISDN), not a hope to distribute movies online and the DVD constituted a formidable means. Today we stream full HD video and download huge software suites/games in no time. Internet killed the optical star.

fionny

Yup I echo many of the replies, Physical media is dying out, even usb keys :P It was faster for me to download files then it was to copy the same files onto a USB2 key, now granted this has improved with USB3.

BR is still bulky and damaged the same as a CD/DVD. As broadband speeds increase on the whole so will the decline of physical media, look at video rental stores, they have been dying out slowly but surely.

yoyo

Not to mention recordable optical media does happen to degrade over time, regardless how "good" a brand it is (past expierience with Tayios is that they are overrated),

Nick

Gurgle

Deleted User wrote: »

Optical storage isn't a niche product and has been used for decades for snapshots, backups, archives, distribution.

It has its place just the same as tape still does. And it will continue to do so in the future.

Had to stop for a double-take here:

just the same as tape still does

That place is a museum, right?

fionny

Gurgle wrote: »

Had to stop for a double-take here:

That place is a museum, right?

No, Data tapes are still in heavy use as a backup medium.

yoyo

Gurgle wrote: »

Had to stop for a double-take here:

That place is a museum, right?

Tape backups are much more widely used in corporate enviornments for relyability reasons, DLT tapes that is . Tapes are more relyable than the optical media for such tasks. I do still burn DVDs myself but wouldn't hold must trust in them for backup/archival purposes regardless of the brand you use

Nick

Gurgle

Ah yes, sorry.
I was thinking tapes as everyday media :rolleyes:

Torqay

yoyo wrote: »

Not to mention recordable optical media does happen to degrade over time, regardless how "good" a brand it is (past expierience with Tayios is that they are overrated),

Nick

To be fair, the longevity has dramatically improved with Blu-Ray discs:

The recordable media used in red laser disc technology like DVD's and CD's is an organic dye that is very sensitive to light. Blu-ray disks, however, use a combination of silicon and copper which is bonded during the burning process, this alloy is much more resilient than the organic dye. Manufacturers claim a life span from 100 up to 150 years for Blu-ray disks.

Whether there will be drives to read those discs in 150 years is different matter tho.

Lantus

There are both social and tech reasons for this.

Prior to DVD we had VHS, a bulky and tempremental system that had as many downsides as it did upsides. DVD offerred solutions to many of these problems in offering better reliability, better and consistent quality, smaller storage media, smaller players, EASIER to use!!!

It made sense to upgrade to DVD and as a nation we embraced it. It was a simple and unified choice and to be honest there was no other real alternative (Laser discs aside!)

Blu Ray on the other hand doesn't offer any other benefit except better viewing quality and sound which and very subjective to many people who still consider pirated DVDs od poor quality to make good economic sense just to watch a film the once.

Factor in the high cost of HD tvs and players and possible sound systems and the benefits are reduced. For me I had built up a collection on VHS and which I also did on DVD. But I wasn't going to get caught in the media storage honey trap a thirdtime. Replacing my collection for slightly better vision and sound makes very little economic sense.

Films are not automatically better becasue they are in HD and as we venture into 3D remember it was created as a joke for 70's matinee's. The urge to 3d everything is just appaling and nothing more than a thinly veiled commercial activity.

Lastly, technology is making on line streaming much more accessible. The advent of Netflix which is comparativley cheap allows people to watch virtually as many shows, films and documentarys as they can stomach for very little cost (around a quarter of the cost of one BD disc per month for netflix anyway.) why buy a box and disc to own which we know from experience only neccesitates the purchase of 'storage solutions' to house all this dead weight when we can watch on demand what we want and when.

These days I'm too tired to be bothered by the sound and vision quality. A good story is what we really want and a shiny veneer with a splash of 3d does not make a good film.

Jumboman

Blu ray may not have taken off because of Sonys incompetence. Anyone remember minidisc ? it should have replaced the cassette tape but Sony never managed to get it into mainstream.

BostonB

Jumboman wrote: »

Blu ray may not have taken off because of Sonys incompetence. Anyone remember minidisc ? it should have replaced the cassette tape but Sony never managed to get it into mainstream.

I don't think it was incompetence but arrogance. They thought they'd control the market. But the market went meh, ignored MD for CD and MP3. That said MDand HiMD was really cool, more portable than CD and great SQ. Software Sonicstage was brutal though.

Overheal

BDXL stores up to 128GB.

As a storage media, the cost of getting the burner and getting the discs is too high to justify. Plus there just aren't that many applications for backing up that much ROM data at once.

Cant say I've personally run a blu ray on the hdtv downstairs but the better televisions will accelerate and upscale whatever video they are fed; even netflix which normally caps at 720p looks amazing and smooth on the right television. Theres no reason to upgrade an existing DVD collection or build a new collection on another form of media that as stated above is still the same physical size and shape as the old one. The only way down from here are completely digital storage methods; I wouldn't personally think it odd if instead of Blu Rays we suddenly transitioned to off-the-shelf flash based storage methods, instead of optical.