3rd car insurance

Garvan

Hi all

I'm wondering if anyone has any info or advice....

I have a full time volvo. The wife has a Galaxy. Our kids are too young to drive.

After a disc burst in my back I sold my motorbike and to cheer myself up I bought a 1998 bmw 323 convertible.

The problem is that I only use it for the summer months yet thanks to (from what I can see so far) narrow or tightly wound motor car insurance policies in this country I have to have a separate policy for each car!

On my bike policy with Adelaide if I had another bike I could add it to the policy for a nominal fee as I could not drive 2 bikes at once.

I can't drive 2 cars at once so why do we have insurance companies that keep sowing it into us ? Just because they can????

Any advice please?

goz83

You could transfer the policy for the summer months, but you can expect to be paying transfer fees, or adjustments if the insurance rates are significant enough. I have transferred my policy before for several weeks and then back to my original car.

Henry Ford III

See if you can get it on a classic car policy.

goz83

Henry Ford III wrote: »

See if you can get it on a classic car policy.

Its a bit far off that. In 2018 might be a chance. I would love have my 97 gpx on a classic policy, but no chance!

anthony4335

You have a couple of options, 1 is to get another insurance policy that will mirror your NCB, with the likes of satanta This is what I have done. If you don't what the extra cost, register the car in your wifes name, tax it and drive it as most policies will allow you drive any car third party as long it does not belong to you. I suggest taxing it using the insurance details from your wifes car so you draw the guards down onto you. Also keep a copy of you insurance policy in the car in case you are stopped.

Garvan

Henry Ford III wrote: »

See if you can get it on a classic car policy.

Too young I'm afraid. Absolute min is 15 years on certain makes and models. It's a check on the day scenario!!!

Garvan

anthony4335 wrote: »

You have a couple of options, 1 is to get another insurance policy that will mirror your NCB, with the likes of satanta This is what I have done. If you don't what the extra cost, register the car in your wifes name, tax it and drive it as most policies will allow you drive any car third party as long it does not belong to you. I suggest taxing it using the insurance details from your wifes car so you draw the guards down onto you. Also keep a copy of you insurance policy in the car in case you are stopped.

She has a policy in her own name already so her ncb (like mine) is already used up!!!

I haven't heard of the 'mirror' ncb before but I'll try that satanta crowd. Thanks

G

Casati

anthony4335 wrote: »

You have a couple of options, 1 is to get another insurance policy that will mirror your NCB, with the likes of satanta This is what I have done. If you don't what the extra cost, register the car in your wifes name, tax it and drive it as most policies will allow you drive any car third party as long it does not belong to you. I suggest taxing it using the insurance details from your wifes car so you draw the guards down onto you. Also keep a copy of you insurance policy in the car in case you are stopped.

While most policies allow third party coverage of a car you do not own, I remember hearing somewhere that the car had to be insured separately- though I haven't seen this clause on my own policy documents so not sure

readytosnap

Casati wrote: »

While most policies allow third party coverage of a car you do not own, I remember hearing somewhere that the car had to be insured separately- though I haven't seen this clause on my own policy documents so not sure

you are covered to drive any car 3rd party so long as you are not the registered owner and the registered owner has the vehicle insured.

Eoin

readytosnap wrote: »

you are covered to drive any car 3rd party so long as you are not the registered owner and the registered owner has the vehicle insured.

Does that not depend on the individual policy?

coylemj

Casati wrote: »

While most policies allow third party coverage of a car you do not own, I remember hearing somewhere that the car had to be insured separately- though I haven't seen this clause on my own policy documents so not sure

readytosnap wrote: »

you are covered to drive any car 3rd party so long as you are not the registered owner and the registered owner has the vehicle insured.

This gets repeated here again and again, it is not true. Once you do not own the car and have not hired it, you can drive another car whether it is the subject of a separate policy or not.

In other words, if your neighbour owns a car and has no policy of insurance on it, you can borrow it and drive it and your insurance policy will cover you third party provided your policy covers 'driving other cars'.

The confusion seems to arise because if the other car does have a policy, your insurance co. will usually insist that you claim under the car's own insurance but if you read your own policy carefully, you will see that if the other car has no policy of it's own, your own policy will cover you.

Duiske

coylemj wrote: »

In other words, if your neighbour owns a car and has no policy of insurance on it, you can borrow it and drive it and your insurance policy will cover you third party provided your policy covers 'driving other cars'.

How do you get around the requirement for display of a valid insurance disk ? Would carrying your own insurance documents and disk with you be enough to get around that ?

coylemj

Duiske wrote: »

How do you get around the requirement for display of a valid insurance disk ? Would carrying your own insurance documents and disk with you be enough to get around that ?

You may or may not get past the Gardai with an insurance disc from another car, or they may figure you're pulling a fast one, I don't know. The only point I'm making is that you are insured and at the end of the day that's all that matters. The likelihood is that they would take your name and address, ask you to produce an insurance cert. at your local station and once you satisfy them that you were covered, I can't see it progressing further.

In that situation I'd probably make sure to carry my insurance cert. with me and in most encounters that will satisfy the Gardai.

wonski

My last policy with Tesco wouldn't cover driving other cars if the car belonged to me, family member, or anyone living at my address.
This was clearly highlighted in my policy documents. Another one - don't remember which company, limited it to 2 litre cars. You need to do a lot of reading to make sure you are insured.

I do agree with coylemj, that having separate policy for other car is not necessary in most cases, kind of a myth, but there are special conditions attached to it, and they depend on underwriter.

I am now with nononsense(FBD), and can't see any special conditions in the paperwork, but i did pay extra for it so i expect it to cover most cases. I would give them a call before i drive any sport/unusual car (any car over 2l in Ireland...).

coylemj

wonski wrote: »

My last policy with Tesco wouldn't cover driving other cars if the car belonged to me, family member, or anyone living at my address.

And Axa once excluded cars owned or leased by your employer i.e. you couldn't borrow a company car from a colleague and be covered by your own policy.

wonski wrote: »

Another one - don't remember which company, limited it to 2 litre cars.

You're probably thinking of the fully comp. cover for 'driving other cars' which Axa gives people with a good record, I have it. It used to have the limitation that the car you borrow had be be no more than 2L or you'd only have 3rd party cover, now the only stipulation is that the comprehensive cover is limited to 50K i.e. if I borrow my neighbour's Bugatti Veyron, they will cover me for 3rd party but if I wrap it around a lamp post, they will only pay my neighbour 50K for the loss of his car.

I don't believe any insurer limits the 3rd party cover for driving other cars based on the c.c.

wonski

coylemj wrote: »

You're probably thinking of the fully comp. cover for 'driving other cars' which Axa gives people with a good record, I have it. It used to have the limitation that the car you borrow had be be no more than 2L or you'd only have 3rd party cover, now the only stipulation is that the comprehensive cover is limited to 50K i.e. if I borrow my neighbour's Bugatti Veyron, they will cover me for 3rd party but if I wrap it around a lamp post, they will only pay my neighbour 50K for the loss of his car.

I don't believe any insurer limits the 3rd party cover for driving other cars based on the c.c.

Nope, just 3rd party. Aviva i think. Again clearly displayed in terms&conditions, no mention of the car having additional policy.

peteb2

if we are getting into the nitty gritty of things here, don't forget that technically speaking if you aren't using this car and you have it sitting on what is deemed a public place under the road traffic act you must have insurance cover in place to satisfy the law!

wonski

peteb2 wrote: »

if we are getting into the nitty gritty of things here, don't forget that technically speaking if you aren't using this car and you have it sitting on what is deemed a public place under the road traffic act you must have insurance cover in place to satisfy the law!

Never used a car with no insurance, but even if you have driving other cars extension, you can be done for not displaying disc. You can't put your own disc, as it only applies to your own registration plate. I wouldn't drive one with no cover in place, wouldn't like to explain it to Gardai on the side of the road.

The best bet for OP is NCB mirroring, or changing over from one car to another.

goz83

NCB mirroring (afaik) is only possible when mirroring a private to commercial policy and vice versa. You can't mirror it from one private policy to another.

waxon-waxoff

I have a comercial insured using my NCB and another company is mirroring the NCB on a second comercial. XSdirect allow you to earn another NCB at a low price but you pay €3000 excess if there is a claim. Nononsense looked good value also.

Casati

goz83 wrote: »

NCB mirroring (afaik) is only possible when mirroring a private to commercial policy and vice versa. You can't mirror it from one private policy to another.

Its generally difficult to get a mirrored policy in place but it can be done for two cars, most of the big insurance companies won't touch it- best advise is to ring a few brokers and find one that has done this before

coylemj

wonski wrote: »

Never used a car with no insurance, but even if you have driving other cars extension, you can be done for not displaying disc. You can't put your own disc, as it only applies to your own registration plate. I wouldn't drive one with no cover in place, wouldn't like to explain it to Gardai on the side of the road.

We always get someone to bring up the issue of insurance discs when we're talking about insurance cover on other cars.

Assuming you are insured, not displaying an insurance disc is an extremely minor offence. The purpose of the disc is to allow Gardai to quickly verify that the car is insured at checkpoints. If you are stopped without a disc but can produce a cert. there and then and satisfy them that you are insured, I very much doubt that they would bother to summons you as all you would get is a small fine, if even that.

Not displaying an insurance disc doesn't even have a defined penalty so it falls under the general category of offence i.e. the same as parking on a double-yellow line.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0355.html

selfbuilder1

Non display of insurance disc is a fixed charge offence with a fine of €60 but no penalty points.

corktina

coylemj wrote: »

This gets repeated here again and again, it is not true. Once you do not own the car and have not hired it, you can drive another car whether it is the subject of a separate policy or not.

In other words, if your neighbour owns a car and has no policy of insurance on it, you can borrow it and drive it and your insurance policy will cover you third party provided your policy covers 'driving other cars'.

The confusion seems to arise because if the other car does have a policy, your insurance co. will usually insist that you claim under the car's own insurance but if you read your own policy carefully, you will see that if the other car has no policy of it's own, your own policy will cover you.

This is spot on , if you are covered thats it...when you think about it, it is of no import whether or not the borrowed car is in itself insured as it wouldnt apply when you were driving it or ,if it did, you wouldn't need to be using your own cover.

As for the disc, well the Insurance Companies no doubt will tell you thats your problem, I carry my Insurance Cert with me that states I am covered and hope a Gard would overlook the minor matter of no disc.

coylemj

selfbuilder1 wrote: »

Non display of insurance disc is a fixed charge offence with a fine of €60 but no penalty points.

Can't see any Garda giving you a ticket if you can produce an insurance cert. on the spot to show you are insured to drive other cars. All he has to do is check the ownership to validate that the car is not registered in your name in which case your 'driving other cars' clause covers you.

goz83

But sure, then you could get insured an a Nissan Micra and as long your 2 litre jag is in someone elses name, your insurance would be much cheaper and you'd be able to drive the jag. That right?

coylemj

goz83 wrote: »

But sure, then you could get insured an a Nissan Micra and as long your 2 litre jag is in someone elses name, your insurance would be much cheaper and you'd be able to drive the jag. That right?

The insurance companies have wised up to that practice happening within families e.g.the son buys a Micra but drives around in the BMW that is really his but is supposedly owned by Dad.

As to the practice happening with two consenting adults, the person in whose name the car is registered would technically be liable if the driver allowed his own insurance to lapse and crashed the car so you would be a fool to allow your name to be on someone else's car just to facilitate his insurance scam.

goz83

So, the short answer is "yes". Of course I was not suggesting it would be OK to effectively lie to the insurers and commit fraud, but I stating that it can be done. It makes more sense if the "other car" required insurance too in order to qualify, because it's extremely unlikely that a car, which has valid tax and nct is not insured by the owner, while being "borrowed" by someone with an open drive policy.

sean1141

AFAIK there is a differance between not being insured and not displaing an insurance disk. While your own policy may cover you to drive an uninsured car you can be fined for non display of a disk even if you have your policy document with you

coylemj

sean1141 wrote: »

AFAIK there is a differance between not being insured and not displaing an insurance disk. While your own policy may cover you to drive an uninsured car you can be fined for non display of a disk even if you have your policy document with you

Conceded but the obligation to display a insurance disc is not concerned with generating revenue like a tax disc, nor has it anything to do with whether the car is safe to drive or not (NCT) so I really can't see why a Garda would fine you for not displaying an insurance disc when you have paperwork on you to prove that you are insured.

Anyway, there are exceptions to when you have to display the disc, like you have 10 days after a change of policy in order to get delivery of the disc and display it so it is not an absolute prohibition with no flexibility like driving without a licence.

5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

wonski

coylemj wrote: »

We always get someone to bring up the issue of insurance discs when we're talking about insurance cover on other cars.

Assuming you are insured, not displaying an insurance disc is an extremely minor offence. The purpose of the disc is to allow Gardai to quickly verify that the car is insured at checkpoints. If you are stopped without a disc but can produce a cert. there and then and satisfy them that you are insured, I very much doubt that they would bother to summons you as all you would get is a small fine, if even that.

Not displaying an insurance disc doesn't even have a defined penalty so it falls under the general category of offence i.e. the same as parking on a double-yellow line.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0355.html

I totally agree with you that it is a minor offence, but people assume no disc=no insurance. If i had to drive one with no disc i would. But if i can - i avoid.
Having insurance is important, disc means nothing really.
But the fact is you can be done (60E), not saying you definitely will, but there is a chance...(No chance for summons tough if cover is in place).

Still can't understand why can't you buy a cover for 2 cars (still it is driver who is insured, not the car). You can't drive two of them at the same time, can you? I understand different risk for some cars, but they could quote driver on the higher risk car, and let him drive the other one whenever he wants. What's the harm?

Popoutman

The only thing that I could see that would increase the premium when adding a second lower-risk car to a policy (apart from profiteering / price-gouging) would be the cost of the 3rd-part cover to have the car parked in a public place.
Now seeing as there have been many many accidents caused by the failure of a car's handbrake or cars randomly going on fire and causing millions in damage, (sarcasm), I couldn't see this as costing more than €100 if even that.

Now if there was a possibility that the second cars were being used regularly by other people, there is a dangerous situation. Even if the other drivers were covered under their own policy, apparently any claims made would be processed under the policy on the car itself, not that belonging to the driver.

Still, I see there is a market for multi-car policies based on the driver being covered, instead of individual policies on the car.

goz83

What I don't understand is how an insurance company can say that you're covered to drive other cars and yet at the same time, if anything happens while driving another car, with a policy already attached to it, that the insurer will wipe their hands clean of it and say "claim on the other policy". I mean...what the hell is insured? Where is the policy stapled? The car? Or the policy holder? It's a total mess.

ei9go

goz83 wrote: »

NCB mirroring (afaik) is only possible when mirroring a private to commercial policy and vice versa. You can't mirror it from one private policy to another.

Not correct

I had a car insured through the AA and they got me a policy for another car through AXA who mirrored my NCB.

goz83

ei9go wrote: »

Not correct

I had a car insured through the AA and they got me a policy for another car through AXA who mirrored my NCB.

Well that's great news and only goes to show once again that the insurance company idiots will just spout whatever sh!te they have on their mind. I was told by Axa that they could only mirror pvt/com and that another vehicle of the same use cannot be mirrored and requires a whole new policy, save the addition of a classic vehicle to a policy.

peteb2

Dude, wind your kneck down for a minute. It varies from insurer to insurer as to who will mirror your bonus. Go to good broker, I'm sure they will know does it.

It relation to your other point, the policy attaches to the person and the subject of it is the insured vehicle. Driving other cars extension is a benefit, not an obligation to provide it. In most cases it is third party only. Which means it won't cover damage to the vehicle you are driving. However if you are more specifically insured on a different policy, i.e. a named driver on that vehicles policy the insurance company will likely seek to claim from that. Although they can demand contribution from your own policy under the terms and conditions of it.

goz83

For the moment, i don't have a 2nd vehicle of my own to need to mirror a bonus, but I will keep that in mind for when I bring in my Mustang

Duiske

About the non display of an insurance disk, I'd tend to agree with coylemj in that, while its technically an offence, i'd imagine that if stopped the majority of Gardai would use common sense and not make an issue of it.