Job Hunting (Teaching Career)

Dee1988

Hi I have just finished my P.D.E. in U.C.D. this year and I am currently on the job hunt! I realise with cut backs and the current climate that most of my class are in the same position. What I wanted to ask is, I have applied for a lot of positions advertised in the paper and on educationposts.ie but I have heard back from very few of the schools, should I be getting worried?? I have 1 year teaching experience doing maternity cover and teaching during my P.D.E. year. Any help, suggestions or advise would be very much appreciated. Thanks

randylonghorn

Moved from LC

dory

It all depends on what your subjects are. After that it's just a case of writing a good CV / cover letter.

sitstill

It also depends who you come up against. I have a few years' more experience than you and have also applied for a number of jobs this summer. I have only heard back from a couple. I'd imagine that someone who has just done their Dip would be towards the bottom of the pile.

aunt aggie

Ive been out of the PGDE a fair few years now and it seems like every year there are fewer jobs to apply for and fewer interviews during the summer.... This year I'm blaming the redeployments. I still havent any significant experience of teaching my subject to leaving cert. Its definately a pain but its the way teaching has gone

If youre just out of your PGDE you should try to pick up subbing experience... It wont be regular work but if a teacher is out sick for a week or longer the school has to look for someone with the required subjects. Make yourself available to local schools. You might not get to meet the principal but include a cover letter in case you dont. Basically keep at it and something should come up. I didnt get work til January last year, was fit to pull my hair out when I got that phone call.

electoralshock

Hi Dee1988, Im n the exact same position as you now except I only have the teaching practice in the PDE year (it was NUIG so it was 16weeks of bloc placement). Im getting worried now about not getting any work to build experience etc. Im going to pass my cv's out to schools for sub work!
Does anyone know do i put my teaching council number and garda vetting number on my cv? Thanks

sitstill

electoralshock wrote: »

Hi Dee1988, Im n the exact same position as you now except I only have the teaching practice in the PDE year (it was NUIG so it was 16weeks of bloc placement). Im getting worried now about not getting any work to build experience etc. Im going to pass my cv's out to schools for sub work!
Does anyone know do i put my teaching council number and garda vetting number on my cv? Thanks

I always put my Teaching Council number on, I think its a good idea. It's not necessary to put your vetting number though IMO.

seriouslysweet

I asked my aunt re this, is a principal is a Galway city school.
She said...
Check you know how to spell principal.
About a quarter of the CVs she receives have BASIC errors.
Secondly, add all your extra curricular stuff, don't leave it out.
Thirdly, get someone in the know to go through your CV and cover letter, critically...

Hope that helps. She recently got 300 CVs for a maternity and threw over half out as had basic errors or no T.C. no. etc. Basic stuff...

Dee1988

Thanks guys for your replies and advice good to know I am not on my own out there!! My subjects are History and English. I guess I will just keep on applying and hoping for the best!! Thanks again.

chippers

Just an option but if it is possible for you look into moving abroad to gain some experience. Get the experience under your belt and come back in a much better position in order to compete for jobs.

And if you haven't done so already - sign on for the dole. Once finished college a lot of people put this off as they hope to be in a position in September. The dole will help towards the costs of the job hunt - stamps / printing / petrol etc

jack89

hey guys sorry to hear about all this after doing the pde and everything, my situation is I tried to secure a school for teaching placement for the pde for september this year but I wasn't successful.

Just wondering should I even bother going ahead with the pde and trying to secure a school or just go looking for subbing hours?

It seems that even with the pde we're still screwed And at this stage it feels like a waste of a year and money when I could be working full time, although I know it's a qualification and can't be a waste.

sitstill

jack89 wrote: »

hey guys sorry to hear about all this after doing the pde and everything, my situation is I tried to secure a school for teaching placement for the pde for september this year but I wasn't successful.

Just wondering should I even bother going ahead with the pde and trying to secure a school or just go looking for subbing hours?

It seems that even with the pde we're still screwed And at this stage it feels like a waste of a year and money when I could be working full time, although I know it's a qualification and can't be a waste.

Only you can decide if doing the PDE is a waste for you or not. If you are struggling to get a placement school, contact your college and at this stage they should help you.

If you don't do the PDE you are unlikely to get subbing. Nor should you, given the amount of qualified teachers struggling for work.

jack89

Sitstill thanks but that's why I thought I'd post here, because I can't decide. It's such a lot of money and a huge commitment to make only to end up struggling for work.

I know of one or two cases were people without the qualification were offered teaching hours in schools, that's why I asked. Also, they got on pretty well, so are you saying they shouldn't have gotten those hours even though they made good teachers?

gaeilgebeo

jack89 wrote: »

Sitstill thanks but that's why I thought I'd post here, because I can't decide. It's such a lot of money and a huge commitment to make only to end up struggling for work.

I know of one or two cases were people without the qualification were offered teaching hours in schools, that's why I asked. Also, they got on pretty well, so are you saying they shouldn't have gotten those hours even though they made good teachers?

Absolutely. There are more than enough qualified, experienced teachers looking for work.
There is no excuse.
An unqualified person is not a "teacher".

sitstill

jack89 wrote: »

Sitstill thanks but that's why I thought I'd post here, because I can't decide. It's such a lot of money and a huge commitment to make only to end up struggling for work.

I know of one or two cases were people without the qualification were offered teaching hours in schools, that's why I asked. Also, they got on pretty well, so are you saying they shouldn't have gotten those hours even though they made good teachers?

Yes that is what I'm saying. I'm glad to hear they got on well but they are not teachers as they are not qualified and are taking jobs from people who are qualified.

jack89

Fair enough. Just thought I'd ask because if things keep going the way they are I'll be in the op's position a year from now. I actually thought / assumed most qualified teachers found steady positions eventually and that subbing hours were an option but that doesn't seem to be the case from your responses, thanks.

Dee1988

I think your decision for doing the PDE is one only you can make. It's a difficult year but if you really want to be a teacher it is necessary. I am not saying it will be easy either as it is a heavy work load and requires a lot of commitment. Secondly since the PDE coarse will be of 2 year duration after 2012-2013 it would be a good idea to do it. I am sure you could get a student loan which I did from my local credit Union they can be very accommodating, you also might get subbing or supervision hours in your placement school. I just finished the PDE in UCD and in fairness despite the job hunt I couldn't see myself doing anything else. If your not sure about teaching as a career and have other options maybe you rethink. Hope this helps!!

dory

Dee1988 wrote: »

I think your decision for doing the PDE is one only you can make. It's a difficult year but if you really want to be a teacher it is necessary. I am not saying it will be easy either as it is a heavy work load and requires a lot of commitment. Secondly since the PDE coarse will be of 2 year duration after 2012-2013 it would be a good idea to do it. I am sure you could get a student loan which I did from my local credit Union they can be very accommodating, you also might get subbing or supervision hours in your placement school. I just finished the PDE in UCD and in fairness despite the job hunt I couldn't see myself doing anything else. If your not sure about teaching as a career and have other options maybe you rethink. Hope this helps!!

We've been told the two year course is not starting for another year or two.

I had a good chat with my new principal today. Told me I got the job because I know my subject well and had confidence. You need confidence to pretend you know what youre doing at the start of the year. We've had plenty of stories on here of Irish teachers not speaking Irish, English teachers not reading books. Principals can see through this is an instant. So make sure you know your subject very well!

jack89

Cheers Dee! Ye I definitely do want to be a teacher, I'll go ahead and focus on getting the placement and worry about getting a job when I get to that stage. Sorry for jumping on your thread! Hope you find a permanent position sometime soon and the same to anyone else that's looking for a job atm. As far as I'm aware I think the pde is internationally recognized? I'd be looking at going to the UK or Australia or somewhere!

Pebble on the Beach

sitstill wrote: »

Yes that is what I'm saying. I'm glad to hear they got on well but they are not teachers as they are not qualified and are taking jobs from people who are qualified.

I thought all non-qualified teachers were being removed from our schools for the new term. Is this not the case?

Isn't there a requirement for all teachers to be fully registered with the Teaching Council or they will not be paid? (Although I wonder who monitors the situation).

As a parent I would hope my child was being taught by qualified teachers (in their relevant subject) and not by someone who managed to get their foot in the school as they were a neighbour/relative of the principal, although they lacked any teaching qualification (I know of such cases).

smallgarden

im pretty sure they are checking this out. teaching council had the wrong date of birth on system which didnt match departments and they sent me a letter to say if didt rectify it i wouldnt be paid so theyre obviously doing some sort of checks

Miss Lockhart

They have implemented the rule that says you cannot be paid if you are not registered with the TC.

However, you can still register with the TC for the VEC Sector without your dip. That is not due to be stopped until 2014 I think. These people will remain registered once they keep up their renewal - even when the rule requiring the dip for the VEC is implemented.

So there will still be plenty of people without the dip teaching in the VEC system.

Geologyrocks

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

They have implemented the rule that says you cannot be paid if you are not registered with the TC.

However, you can still register with the TC for the VEC Sector without your dip. That is not due to be stopped until 2014 I think. These people will remain registered once they keep up their renewal - even when the rule requiring the dip for the VEC is implemented.

So there will still be plenty of people without the dip teaching in the VEC system.

If a student teacher is completing the dip can they still sub then?

Miss Lockhart

Geologyrocks wrote: »

If a student teacher is completing the dip can they still sub then?

Yes if it is a VEC and they register with the TC for the VEC sector. This just require filling in the form, sending in degree parchment and transcripts. And they will be paid the qualified rate.

mtoutlemonde

Pebble on the Beach wrote: »

sitstill wrote: »

Yes that is what I'm saying. I'm glad to hear they got on well but they are not teachers as they are not qualified and are taking jobs from people who are qualified.

I thought all non-qualified teachers were being removed from our schools for the new term. Is this not the case?

Isn't there a requirement for all teachers to be fully registered with the Teaching Council or they will not be paid? (Although I wonder who monitors the situation).

As a parent I would hope my child was being taught by qualified teachers (in their relevant subject) and not by someone who managed to get their foot in the school as they were a neighbour/relative of the principal, although they lacked any teaching qualification (I know of such cases).

Schools can get around this by paying the person themselves. Registration only affects department paid hours as far as I know - I could be wrong.


not by someone who managed to get their foot in the school as they were a neighbour/relative of the principal, although they lacked any teaching qualification (I know of such cases).[/Quote]

I know of a situation like this also. I think its unfair when there are people who went to university and worked very hard to get their qualification are left unemployed.

seavill

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Yes if it is a VEC and they register with the TC for the VEC sector. This just require filling in the form, sending in degree parchment and transcripts. And they will be paid the qualified rate.

If they are a student teacher they won't have the degree etc. to send off surely, for concurrent courses

Miss Lockhart

seavill wrote: »

If they are a student teacher they won't have the degree etc. to send off surely, for concurrent courses

Not for concurrent courses, no, but for the PDE then they would be able to sub in the VEC.

seavill

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Not for concurrent courses, no, but for the PDE then they would be able to sub in the VEC.

seems a bit of an unfair situation really either way both are student teachers neither are qualified teachers, one happens to have a degree but that doesn't make them a teacher. Not a very fair situation there really

Miss Lockhart

No, it's not a fair situation. But then it's hardly fair that students in VEC schools will continue to be taught by people without a teaching qualification while those in voluntary schools are guaranteed a qualified teacher.

seavill

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

No, it's not a fair situation. But then it's hardly fair that students in VEC schools will continue to be taught by people without a teaching qualification while those in voluntary schools are guaranteed a qualified teacher.

What on earth has that got to do with a student teacher's ability to sub in a school or not?

Miss Lockhart

I'm merely agreeing that it's unfair and pointing out that the whole VEC registration system is unfair on everyone - students included.

I'm sorry you seem so offended by the comment.

seavill

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I'm merely agreeing that it's unfair and pointing out that the whole VEC registration system is unfair on everyone - students included.

I'm sorry you seem so offended by the comment.

Not offended in the slightest I was just baffled as to where that came from. Fair point in full context

spurious

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

No, it's not a fair situation. But then it's hardly fair that students in VEC schools will continue to be taught by people without a teaching qualification while those in voluntary schools are guaranteed a qualified teacher.

Ironically, it used to be the other way round.
You HAD to be qualified to teach in a VEC school but being friends with someone could get you into the convent or brothers.

Anyway, the numbers currently teaching in VECs without a teaching qualification are quite small. In our staff of 45, I think there are 2. It's not a huge issue.

Students in VEC schools are taught by some of the best teachers in the country.

Miss Lockhart

There's at least 20 out of 100 teachers in my school without the dip.

I know there are excellent teachers in the VEC as a whole - I just think this loophole is taking far too long to close. I understand they had to make arrangements for those who had been teaching years before the establishment of the TC, but there's no reason people should still be able to register without the dip for another year to come!

spurious

Yes but you can't blame the teachers for the loophole. Those teachers are qualified to work in those schools. They are not 'unqualified'.

seavill

spurious wrote: »

Yes but you can't blame the teachers for the loophole. Those teachers are qualified to work in those schools. They are not 'unqualified'.

They may be allowed to work in those schools however that in no way makes them qualified teachers whatever way you word it.

Miss Lockhart

I'm not blaming those teachers at all. I have simply pointed out that this loophole remains and will remain for some time yet, as many posters here seem to forget about it when answering queries. I am unhappy that it still exists but at no point do I blame those taking advantage of it.

bdoo

A few facts

You cannot be fully registered with the tc without a teaching qualification

The. Old rules did not require a teaching qualification for VEC, people who were legally employed under this arrangement were registered by the tc when it was established. If the let their registration lapse they may be in trouble.

Section 30 of the teaching council act has not been moved yet but it is expected to be soon

When it is unregistered teachers may not be paid out of monies provided by the oireachtas. I cannot see many schools apart from fee paying ones being able to fund teachers salaries from fundraising and voluntary contributions.

The comments about teachers in the vocational sector being unqualified is highly inaccurate. They are fully qualified in their subject and in the past had to complete the ceard teastas Gaeilge also. You would think from the posts here that any person could masquerade as a teacher. It harps back to the old days when our sector was the poor relation and was looked down upon by the voluntary sector.

The model of vocational education was so successful that the religious orders did their utmost to prevent it ever being set up to protect their grip on education in Ireland. It was only in the 60s that vocational schools were allowed to 'compete' with secondary schools.

Miss Lockhart

I work in a VEC school and people with degrees only and no dip are still registering this week at the last minute. I have several friends doing it. They are only young and newly started teaching - they have not done the Ceard Teastais and they are only working a year or two - some are only starting now this month. The TC registration cert they get says "Education Sector - Post Primary (VEC)", "Registration Category - Full". This is also how it appears in the online register.

I am fully supportive of the VEC sector - I love working there and it's where I would send my kids. I also fully understand that the VECs have traditionally taught subjects that did not necessarily go along with having a degree or teacher qualification - and that is still the case for a small number of subjects, especially for LCA - for example Hair and Beauty. But I do not see why people are still able to register to teach English/History/Geography/Science in the VEC sector without the dip. I don't agree with this and I don't see what's wrong with expressing that disagreement. I just want to see people with a teaching qualification given preference over those without and for all students in the country to have fully qualified teachers.

seavill

I don't particularly want to get into a war of words over this.

I'm not saying anything against nor do I have anything against any of these teachers one of my closest colleagues in a past school were one of these teachers however the facts still remain

bdoo

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I work in a VEC school and people with degrees only and no dip are still registering this week at the last minute. I have several friends doing it. They are only young and newly started teaching - they have not done the Ceard Teastais and they are only working a year or two - some are only starting now this month. The TC registration cert they get says "Education Sector - Post Primary (VEC)", "Registration Category - Full". This is also how it appears in the online register.

I am fully supportive of the VEC sector - I love working there and it's where I would send my kids. I also fully understand that the VECs have traditionally taught subjects that did not necessarily go along with having a degree or teacher qualification - and that is still the case for a small number of subjects, especially for LCA - for example Hair and Beauty. But I do not see why people are still able to register to teach English/History/Geography/Science in the VEC sector without the dip. I don't agree with this and I don't see what's wrong with expressing that disagreement. I just want to see people with a teaching qualification given preference over those without and for all students in the country to have fully qualified teachers.

I understood that you could only get conditional registration without your dip.

I agree that in this day age the standard should be the same across the board.

There are no teachers left in my school who are without a dip and certainly all new appointments over the past ten years have had a teaching qualification.

All that being said, the dip or lack of it doesn't determine your ability to teach

Miss Lockhart

You can definitely still get full VEC recognition without the dip - the only exceptions are subjects where the dip methodology is a requirement (CSPE, PE, Music, Construction and a few others). This will end in 2013 but an exact date has not been specified. Conditional registration is something everyone gets at first and is removed once the 300 hours teaching experience is completed.

I agree that the dip does not determine your ability to teach but it would be disingenuous to suggest that it is unnecessary entirely. There is plenty to learn on the dip.

The fact is that there is an oversupply of fully qualified (as in with a teaching qualification) teachers so there is no need for schools to employ these people or for the TC to register them. My school has many people without the dip - most of whom were employed in the last 5 years, and they have hired two new teachers without the dip for next week. It is common in several of the schools I know within this VEC.

rainbowtrout

To be honest I don't think it's going to be a huge issue in the long term. Those that register to teach in the VEC sector and do not have a teaching qualification will only be able to teach in the VEC sector. Jobs as we all know are few and far between and there's no guarantee for new teachers that they will be in a school long enough to secure a CID. It wasn't such a problem in the past where if you got into a school on a contract there was a good chance you would be kept on in the long term. So people registering with the TC for VEC only might find it hard to get work in 2 years time if they are let go from a VEC and are out looking for work again with experience but without a qualification and restriction to one sector only.

Also in this day and age it's possible to do the dip/concurrent teacher education in all the mainstream LC subjects, with subjects like Hair and Beauty in LCA being an exception. If there are so many people coming out of third level with a teaching qualification, those without it are going to find it hard to find work in the first place. They are not in a majority.

Pebble on the Beach

So let me see if I have this right .... there will still be 'teachers' allowed to teach in the VEC sector who do not have a teaching qualification? I thought Section 30 was going to be enacted for the new term and would affect ALL teachers across ALL teaching sectors. It's a bit confusing really.

Whilst I agree that having a teaching qualification does not necessarily make you a great teacher it should definitely be an essential requirement in any event. I would prefer my child being taught by a fully qualified registered teacher who has completed their garda vetting, is familiar with child protection procedures and has undergone training in areas of differentiation, class control and has a thorough understanding of the curriculum.

My OH has worked in schools where 2 'teachers' were employed with only an undergraduate degree. In one case, the 'teacher' wasn't even teaching the subject of his degree. In both cases, these 'teachers' were county GAA players ..... it is so unfair for these people to take jobs that could be filled by qualified teachers.

spurious

I'm still not Garda vetted - only teaching 28 years.