Can you train effectively on feel only?

Donelson

Does anybody here set their training pace based on perceived effort and if so how do you get on? Are you still following a plan?
Or are gps watches a necessary evil for good training/discipline?

n-dawg

In school I had a coach who always told us, "train for run, race to win".

He knew that if you find something fun you will stick with it for the long hall... but you should still give every race your full effort.

So if you find it fun to follow plans strictly, look in depth into stats etc then do it...

If your like me and just enjoy the fun of going for a run, then why take the fun out of it by forcing yourself to do something that you don't enjoy. Don't get me wrong I do follow a "training plan" to try to peak for big races but its quite loose and tends to change depending on what I will find fun that day. For example if I've had a long frustrating day at work I'm in no mood for a LSR so I'll do a 5km tt to vent my frustration and do the long run when I'm in better form. I do think that if I followed a strict plan for several months/years I would improve but I'd be sick of the plan after 2-3 months so there is no point in me starting.

myflipflops

Define effectively?

I don't own a Garmin and after flirting with the idea, I have decided not to get one. I usually run on how I feel. I'm not training anywhere near a high level though.

Donelson

myflipflops wrote: »

Define effectively?

I don't own a Garmin and after flirting with the idea, I have decided not to get one. I usually run on how I feel. I'm not training anywhere near a high level though.

effective training for me would be a steady improvement on my target distance 10k.

Do you think you get all you can out of the training time that you put in?

Do you vary your sessions or just your pacing?

Do you find it hard to push yourself with out a fix pace?

Do you have a training philosophy?

Sorry about all the questions

Donelson

n-dawg wrote: »

In school I had a coach who always told us, "train for run, race to win".

He knew that if you find something fun you will stick with it for the long hall... but you should still give every race your full effort.

So if you find it fun to follow plans strictly, look in depth into stats etc then do it...

If your like me and just enjoy the fun of going for a run, then why take the fun out of it by forcing yourself to do something that you don't enjoy. Don't get me wrong I do follow a "training plan" to try to peak for big races but its quite loose and tends to change depending on what I will find fun that day. For example if I've had a long frustrating day at work I'm in no mood for a LSR so I'll do a 5km tt to vent my frustration and do the long run when I'm in better form. I do think that if I followed a strict plan for several months/years I would improve but I'd be sick of the plan after 2-3 months so there is no point in me starting.

I'd be afraid I'd get lazy and just jog around really slowly

nerraw1111

The faster marathon times of the 80s suggest you can.

macinalli

I'm pretty sure that people were able to train effectively in the pre-Garmin days of yore. Running is not exactly a new sport

ecoli

You should never rely on anything but your own body.

Does that mean there is no place for GPS watches? No I always wear my watch but I try to not let it dictate things. If I am doing hills I take into account the gradient of the hill, if there is wind I will take this into account also.

Similar in terms of a training plan I try not to get tied down too much but at the same time I have a general outline of what specific areas which I aim to hit in sessions during a week (Vo2 Max work, Tempo work, leg turnover, fatigue resistance etc) and as long as the sessions target the particular area I can be flexible enough and try to work training around to compromise with others. At the end of the day there is you will get similar benefits from 4x1200m as you would from 3x1 mile provided paces and recoveries are right. Your body doesnt have a stop watch so as long as you are working the right systems you will see the benefit

I use tools to help me because I am not 100% able to judge of percieved effort (I am not truly honest with myself) but I use things like GPS watches and lap splits to help back up my percieved effort rather than dictate it

ecoli

nerraw1111 wrote: »

The faster marathon times of the 80s suggest you can.

That measurements of courses have gotten more accurate with advancing technology

(Couldnt help it:D)

Donelson

macinalli wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that people were able to train effectively in the pre-Garmin days of yore. Running is not exactly a new sport

Where they pacing training on feel or were they using a different methods to pace training? Laps, mile markers etc

Donelson

ecoli wrote: »

You should never rely on anything but your own body.

Does that mean there is no place for GPS watches? No I always wear my watch but I try to not let it dictate things. If I am doing hills I take into account the gradient of the hill, if there is wind I will take this into account also.

Similar in terms of a training plan I try not to get tied down too much but at the same time I have a general outline of what specific areas which I aim to hit in sessions during a week (Vo2 Max work, Tempo work, leg turnover, fatigue resistance etc) and as long as the sessions target the particular area I can be flexible enough and try to work training around to compromise with others. At the end of the day there is you will get similar benefits from 4x1200m as you would from 3x1 mile provided paces and recoveries are right. Your body doesnt have a stop watch so as long as you are working the right systems you will see the benefit

I use tools to help me because I am not 100% able to judge of percieved effort (I am not truly honest with myself) but I use things like GPS watches and lap splits to help back up my percieved effort rather than dictate it

How do you know when to push in training? do you vary your perceived effort if your times slip or do think it will come right on it's own?

ecoli

Donelson wrote: »

How do you know when to push in training? do you vary your perceived effort if your times slip or do think it will come right on it's own?

Generally work on an effort which for the first rep or two is steady but not killer and as a session goes on you have to work harder to maintain the pace rather than your times slipping.

It also depends on your the session. Most sessions though the aim is to minimize drop off in times as a session goes off. You could argue that running an 80 second 400m on your fifth rep is as hard as a 68 second in your first (an example) Here its a case of going out too hard at first.

If you are looking to make improvements in your own personal training though I think its the quantity not quality that is the issue looking at your log. You will see a good deal of improvement by simply putting more time on your feet in.

wrstan

A good book on this whole subject is Matt Fitzgerald's Run:The Mind-body Method of Running by Feel.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1934030570/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d4_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=08BBSPHRGMC90TCKXM55&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=317828027&pf_rd_i=468294

I have just finished it and really enjoyed it, there are some good gems in it even if Fitzgerald suffers a bit from the "why say something in 3 pages that you could say in 5" syndrome.

nerraw1111

Sometimes I think running with a garmin can hold you back. Too cautious approach, based on McMillan times etc.

Whereas the neanderthals of the 1980s, just went on feel and perhaps may have frequently pushed themselves harder. That and perhaps people may have replaced club running with the interwebz and technology.

ecoli

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Sometimes I think running with a garmin can hold you back. Too cautious approach, based on McMillan times etc.

Whereas the neanderthals of the 1980s, just went on feel and perhaps may have frequently pushed themselves harder. That and perhaps people may have replaced club running with the interwebz and technology.

I do agree with this. Its something I have started to realise more and more recently. Sometimes you need to be thick headed about your limitations. I know alot of elite runners who display an ignorance to their training and as such there limitations. 9/10 times the mind will put limits before the body

Donelson

ecoli wrote: »

Donelson wrote: »

How do you know when to push in training? do you vary your perceived effort if your times slip or do think it will come right on it's own?

Generally work on an effort which for the first rep or two is steady but not killer and as a session goes on you have to work harder to maintain the pace rather than your times slipping.

It also depends on your the session. Most sessions though the aim is to minimize drop off in times as a session goes off. You could argue that running an 80 second 400m on your fifth rep is as hard as a 68 second in your first (an example) Here its a case of going out too hard at first.

If you are looking to make improvements in your own personal training though I think its the quantity not quality that is the issue looking at your log. You will see a good deal of improvement by simply putting more time on your feet in.

Re: more time on my feet, I do agree, but I'd have to be honest, I much prefer spending my non training plan time swimming or cycling

MrCreosote

Running is generally fun, but I find a GPS helps you quantify your enjoyment.

KielyUnusual

I've been running for over a year and steadily improving without any technology, besides a E12 digital watch that I just recently bought. I go out with a specific pace in mind and generally get within 5 seconds or so of this. I judge by the effort I put in and have honed a good feeling for pace this way. Having said that, I'd definitely buy a GPS watch if I wasn't so dreadfully poor.

Don't have a Garmin.

Have a €10 wrist watch. It has a stopwatch. That's all I want.

Though I do sometimes look at runningahead to check distance run, for the lsr's.