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Killing Them Softly (aka Cogan's Trade)

  • 02-08-2012 7:52am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    It was reviewed at Cannes. Out here in September.



Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭rcdk1


    This one kinda slipped in under the radar (for me anyway) until I saw a trailer on (UK) TV a few minutes ago.

    I wasn't blown away by the trailer but it seems to be getting positive reviews.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 545 ✭✭✭WatchWolf


    Very excited for this.

    The Assassination of Jesse James is such an underrated film.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭Icarus Wings


    WatchWolf wrote: »
    The Assassination of Jesse James is such an underrated film.

    Definitely one of my favourite films of all time - great script, quality acting and a divine score by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis.

    I can't wait for Killing Them Softly. Higgins' novel, Cogan's Trade, was an excellant read and demonstrated his skill as a writer. Judging by the trailer and reviews, Dominik has captured the style and elegance of the original story. Big fan of Richard Jenkins as well!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89,454 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Was the name changed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    WatchWolf wrote: »
    Very excited for this.

    The Assassination of Jesse James is such an underrated film.
    Definitely one of my favourite films of all time - great script, quality acting and a divine score by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis.

    I can't wait for Killing Them Softly. Higgins' novel, Cogan's Trade, was an excellant read and demonstrated his skill as a writer. Judging by the trailer and reviews, Dominik has captured the style and elegance of the original story. Big fan of Richard Jenkins as well!

    That was my favourite of the three big films that cam out at the same time (the others being No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood). Icarus Wings has covered most of the main points, but the cinematography is definitley worth mentioning. It just looked stunning. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend Chopper.

    Andrew Dominik may not make many films, but to date his work has been outstanding. To say I'm looking forward to this is would be something of an understatement.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    That was my favourite of the three big films that cam out at the same time (the others being No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood).

    Totally agree. Thought that was a seriously strong year for films and any one of those three would have walked best picture in subsequent years. What can you do but laugh at the fact that Juno and Michael Clayton were nomindated ahead of The Assination of Jesse James that year. I thought the film should have won best picture let alone be nominated! At least Kermode gave it his film of the year..

    Can't wait for Killing Them Softly too... would love another serious epic film but looks like this will be more akin to Chopper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭don ramo


    was just looking to see what i was gonna see this weekend, and saw this was out friday, i'm so used to films coming out after their US release date, some time we get them a week or 2 beforehand but 2 months, delighted:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭Renn


    Loved Assassination so I had high hopes for this, but unfortunately came out of it thinking it was pretty mediocre. Looks good - different cinematographer this time round but similar shots to Dominik's last effort - but struggles with the social/political commentary aspect of it all, a little too heavy-handed at times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    Pretty dissapointed overall. Some great scenes, but can't say that I enjoyed watching the film.. which is what it should come down to. I think it could do with another watch but it's nowhere near in the same field as Assassination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭403 Forbidden


    Just back from seeing this in the IFI. Was dissapointed in this aswell. The excution scenes where good but thats really it. Some good filmmaking but not fantastic maybe a rewatch would change my mind.
    When they beat the crap out Markie,that was the best scene ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,387 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    Yeah, thought the whole
    card game scene was great, really, really tense,
    but kind of meandered after that.

    Ben Mendolson and Scoot McNairy were great though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    Saw it saturday night and at first I wasn't overly impressed but its kind of grown on me since. First off some of the scenes go on way too long. I've nothing against long scenes as such so long as theres a point to them, which didnt seem to be case here. Just irrelevant rambling about riding.
    But theres some stand out scenes aswell. Brad Pitt is just getting better and better. The roles he's selecting are top class and he hasnt fallen into the trap of former leading man now playing someones dad on a tv show.
    The photography was classy as was the acting by everybody. Definitely describe this one as a grower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭gothictwilight


    mmmmmm, I think this looks good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    ........and Coogans trade is a way better name than killing them softly. Very silly decsion to change the name for european audiences.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,114 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Didn't think much of this at all. A few stylish flourishes and some decent performances, but all adding up to very little. Got really irritated at all the news show cutaways - felt condescending at worst, distracting at best. While a few of the scenes worked well - card game was easily the highlight - too many fell victim to the Tarantino effect of character's taking for overlong periods of time but running out of interesting things to say early on. I know its a pacing and tonal decision, but just felt sequences like the bar or hotel room dragged (and while Gandolfini has one performance, I did like how broken and depressed they made his character). All in all, a few nice touches jutting out of an unremarkable whole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    I quite liked it tbh, Pitt and Gandolfini were very good and without their performances I'd probably be on the fence but they elevated it from an OK crime movie to very watchable fare. The problem is there was very little tension outside of the card game scene and too many characters with limited screen time which meant we didn't get to see enough of them to care about them. Thought the bar scene with Pitt and McNairy was very good as well.

    The political inserts I felt were largely pointless and added nothing to the movie, a bit more characterisation for Frankie and Russell could have replaced them and made a superior movie.

    Overall I wasn't disappointed I spent money on it and it could be a slow burner. For large parts of it I was waiting for something to happen but the more I think back on it the better I remember being.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,595 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I thought this started off very well but over all it wasn't great. Gandolfini's scenes just killed the film for me and should have been cut out altogether, they were beyond boring. The social commentary was heavy handed and added nothing to the film really(apart from Pitt's final speech which I liked).

    On the other hand the cinematography was really nice and the film was very stylish in places. Some scenes I found to be very funny too, the scenes between Pitt and Richard Jenkins were particularly hilarious.

    The trailers had me pretty excited for this, so overall i was fairly dissappointed, but didn't think it was awful by any means.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭SmokeyEyes


    We watched this yesterday, I thought the performances were excellent and really liked the cinematography that was very up close and personal but felt the story could have been a bit better. Still it's a lot more interesting than a lot of the half baked offerings that make it to the cinema and well worth a look...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,908 ✭✭✭Cartman78


    Saw this earlier....enjoyed it a lot but would be cautious recommending it to others.

    It's offbeat and stylish in ways that will annoy some people and enthrall others. I think it will both require and reward multiple viewings.

    Decent performances all around - Pitt is definitely maturing nicely as an actor; liked the scenes with Gandolfini, although he was basically doing Tony Soprano-lite. Nice to see Ray Liotta back too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,494 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Was planning on going to see this on Saturday, but the bus wasn't due fo another 20 mins. But I will be going to see it next Saturday.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I didn't care for this either. The political soapboxing is heavy-handed and tiresome. As a social commentary, the film just doesn't work. There's a lot to like: the cast, Dominik’s virtuoso visuals and the dialogue, but its all in service of a failed allegory about American capitalism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,032 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    I'm of a similar mindset to most here. It had great potential but the sum of it's parts didn't make a fantastic film by any means. Brad Pitt is great as are the supporting characters. Gandolfini came across as a character/sub plot that could easily have been deleted. His only relevance being
    that he was getting paid higher than Brad Pitt, hence the argument at the end of the movie.

    The political debates/speeches in the background were distracting. They were loud enough in the sound mix that I wasn't sure if I should be listening to them or the conversations between the characters on screen and for that reason the for me the two don't marry together as well as the filmmakers may want.

    I was left wanting an ending. I thought the Dillon character was going to arrive and something happen but seeing the credits I realised Dillon was in the movie briefly early on. I missed that.
    I was left wondering if there was anything to the part where Brad Pitt's character says that Dillon is dead. "He died this morning." I couldn't help think I missed something with this exchange.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭Table Top Joe


    Have to agree with a couple of the reviews here,good....with the potential to have been great,i love Gandolfini but i found his character incredibly boring after awhile and couldnt wait for him to shut up and the next scene to come along,i loved the rest of the cast though,it was like The Coen Bros doing Tarantino or something


    I probably liked it more than most here though,id give it 4/5,could have been a much better film but i still really enjoyed it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Really liked this film, I felt the extended sequences of what frequently was, on the surface, seemingly pointless and of irrelevant value to the film as a whole only compounded the core brutality of it. Gandolfini's scenes in particular were rather striking in this regard, blending the criminal with the daily humdrum. Excellent performances and visually fantastic. Really loved this movie!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    I'm not too sure what to think of this. I did enjoy it, but overall I can't quite put my finger on what the film was trying to be. There were lots of statements and scenes that seemed really out of place and I just got the feeling that there much have been huge chunks edited out. Then there's the couple of slapstick scenes that didn't make a whole lot of sense in the context of the film (For example,
    blowing up the car and it hits one of the guys.
    ). I just don't get why that sort of scene was in it.

    Has anyone read the book and know if there's any major differences in it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭Icarus Wings


    humanji wrote: »
    Has anyone read the book and know if there's any major differences in it?

    Haven't seen this yet but I still have high hopes for it! I read Higgins' novel a few years back and, from looking at a few reviews in the thread, it doesn't seem to stray wildly away from the original source.

    There are obvious superficial differences - the core text is based on the gritty Boston gangster scene and set against the unsettled political and cultural context of the '70s instead of the '00s.

    The majority of the novel consists of pure dialogue - chapters consisting of conversations between two or three characters in a car/hotel room/bar. Little to none of the text is spent portraying major events or action scenes and instead, the reader is presented with the characters having a discussion following the event, with a large amount of seemingly irrelevant dialogue. Essentially, the reader has to piece the story together based on each character's use of language. It sounds like a narrative receipe for disaster...but Higgins' unusual writing style and structure distinguishes it from so many other books in the genre. It seems obvious but it's in the phrases, diction and speech mannerisms used by individual characters that reveal their true nature.

    I've rarely read a novel with a structure like Cogan's Trade. I certainly enjoyed it and would definitely recommend it - It might just take a few reads before you "get" it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Cheers. Sounds like something to pick up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    This is average. It tries to mimic Tarantino's narrative but falls well short. Pitt's character is too cool, too smooth that he is simply not at all believable. The 2 robbers are infantile and the cinematography in the drug scenes are copied from other movies. Gandolfini's character is amusing though. Worth a look as it does tick along quite well and it is pretty short. There are worse films out there but dont expect much.

    Btw reviews cannot be trusted at all, this got some very good reviews, backhand city there. Plus the Assassination of Jesse James is an awful drawn out loads of codwallop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,887 ✭✭✭WHIP IT!


    Warper wrote: »
    Plus the Assassination of Jesse James is an awful drawn out loads of codwallop.

    THANK YOU!! I thought it was absolute pants as well...


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  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I must be int he minority but I really enjoyed it. Yes it has it's faults, the political and social commentary is childish, poorly implemented and over powers every scene it's used in. The dialogue is overblown and conversations take a long time to go nowhere and some of the characters are pointless and offer nothing to the over all film. Overall it's 4 or 5 great scenes in search of a stronger, more straight forward and rewarding narrative.

    The heist scene is tense, brilliantly acted and shot and there's a real sense of urgency in these early scenes that sadly disappears once Pitt appears on screen. Visually I thought that the film was beautiful, the assassination in the rain scene in particular was just gorgeous and sell well done.

    The films biggest downfall after the hackneyed social and political commentary is the dialogue which more often than not feels like the writer is showing off just how smart he is. It reminded me a lot of Tarantino's work and in particular the dreadful conversations that went nowhere in Death Proof and to a lesser degree Inglorious Basterds.

    Assassination of Jesse James remains one of my all time favorite films so perhaps I went in to this expecting to much. It's a by the numbers mid 90s thriller with some interesting ideas and real visual flair but that's not enough in 2012 and considering that there were mass walk outs at the screening I was at during the opening weekend a lot of people felt similar.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    Excellent film, very happy that Pitt is getting behind these type of films that wouldn't normally be made.

    Thought the economic crisis background was very relevant in the film. Showed why the sequence of events came into play that happened in the film. People under pressure financially -> robbing poker games -> hitmen being hired to send out a message to the rest of the street to avoid further robberies ->Pitts character demanding more money. All these all relevant because they become more necessary in a time of financial troubles.

    In america your on your own, great line


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭Deco99


    Saw this recently, not a good film.

    Was the political/economic stuff meant to be subtle? This film could have been not bad but it tried way too hard but had no substance.

    Apparently the Mob operates like Corporate America, WOW! It spent so long hammering this point across, for a film with such a talented cast, who act out their scenes well, the editing and dialogue and camera work appear to be either straight rip offs or lazy imitation.

    Overall, disappointed... PEEEEUUUUWW!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Just finished watching this.

    Great cast, some great scenes but overall lackluster. I loved how it looked and the hit at the traffic lights was a impressive visual scene. Have to agree with other posters about he political sound bytes, one or two would have been fine, but it just went to overkill with it for no particular reason I could fathom. Just got annoying

    Shame really. Not a bad movie, just nothing special.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    Decent movie but, Jesus, the political sound bytes thump you over the head with their lack of subtlety plus the dialogue in lots of parts felt bloated and didn't go anywhere.

    There's some great solid scenes in this film that stop it from being a completely forgettable flick. Which is a shame considering the cast on display here.


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