So should eircom be worried?

Headshot

So with sky entering the broadband market here in Ireland hopefully soon, im wondering will many Eircom users ditch them and sign up to Sky.

Iv eircom broadband unfortunately and I reckon the minute sky come in, ill be off like a shot to them. Iv already have sky tv service, so makes sense going to them.

About Eircom being worried, should they?

I also like to know will Eircom lose alot of money by renting out lines to sky

Logical_Bear

only because it will be cheaper..it will still be delivered over the phone line so speeds etc wont improve.

kirving

eircom will be forced to rent lines to Sky at a ridiculously low rate, while also having to charge their own customers a minimum amount.

eircom will have to move into TV in the near future and lay a heap of fiber if they want to survive.

Headshot

Kevin Irving wrote: »

eircom will be forced to rent lines to Sky at a ridiculously low rate, while also having to charge their own customers a minimum amount.

eircom will have to move into TV in the near future and lay a heap of fiber if they want to survive.

Why do you think that Kevin?

Logical_Bear

Headshot wrote: »

Why do you think that Kevin?

comreg.
just selling BB alone any more isnt an option..the providers have to add other stuff now just to compete.

upc have their BB(very fast),phone and tv all in one package that makes it very attractive.

Sky will also be able to offer discounts with them being able to provide tv as well.

for eircom to overtake both they will have to give fibre BB and a tv package good enough to rival upc.

dont forget also that eircom arent the national,state owned provider as they use to be(i.e they aint a charity,they're not gonna upgrade exchanges out in the middle of nowhere for the sake of it.they wont spend money doing it unless they can get profit back)

geneyuss

ive just one word,,,,Airtricity

kirving

I read somewhere before, that the regulator forced eircom to allow other providers use the lines for a very low fee, in order to increase competition.

Zhane

I can definitely see Sky subscribers jumping ship if they can save money with a bundle deal. I know I certainly will be.

starviewadams

Won't Sky have to pay Eircom to use their lines anyways?

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

PogMoThoin

Sky are reselling Eircom, therefore Eircom make money on every connection Sky sell regardless of whether they sell it at a loss or not. The price of Eircom bitstream includes line rental, the price of line rental is set by the regulator, Comreg. There is no low reduced rate for Sky. There are many players who already resell Eircom bitstream, another won't many any difference. Vodafone already sell it at a loss and use it to promote their Phone services.

bk

Sky will be reselling Eircoms product (at least BT LLU, which invloves a line rental charge to Eircom) and maybe also Eircom Bitstream.

So while Eircom will lose some money if people switch from Eircom to Sky, Eircom will still continue to get the majority of the money.

No, UPC is the much bigger threat to Eircom. When someone switches to UPC, Eircom loses all that revenue to UPC including line rental.

UPC has had a savage effect on Eircoms business.

Sky will be interesting, it will probably reduce the price of DSL, but not half as important as UPC.

miralize

Eircom will be doing the bins within 6 months!!

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Logical_Bear

geneyuss wrote: »

ive just one word,,,,Airtricity

yes it is ,well done.


so is whatyouOnAbout?

naitsirhc

Eircom are definitely losing a lot of customers once Sky come in with broadband. They will really need to improve the product and do it cheap-ish as well if they still want to be around this time next year.

Unless they figure out a way to just improve the cables and make money purely on renting them to Sky and Vodafone etc

Sponge Bob

Sky is only a nuisance, UPC launched in Bray a year ago and took aound 1/3 of eircoms residential customers off them in only 6 months.

geneyuss

Logical_Bear wrote: »

yes it is ,well done.


so is whatyouOnAbout?

that makes sense

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

Kevin Irving wrote: »

eircom will be forced to rent lines to Sky at a ridiculously low rate, while also having to charge their own customers a minimum amount.

How's that going to happen now?

Up till now comreg have been toothless and have caved in in court cases against eircom, given the go ahead to eircom to raise line rental prices and also caused the failure of LLU rollout in Ireland by not standing up to Eircom.

There's no evidence to suggest in anyway that eircom will have to drop any line rental prices so your suggestion is mere speculation.

As mentioned above, its upc thats the real problem for Eircom

kirving

Ok, it was just something I read a while back. I can't remeber where, sorry.

How much do Vodafone pay eircom for each line currently? Is it up around the €25 mark that eircom charge their own customers?

MagicMarker

The wholesale cost for line rental is not much less than what the retail price is.

bealtine

Kevin Irving wrote: »

How much do Vodafone pay eircom for each line currently? Is it up around the €25 mark that eircom charge their own customers?

Here's a copy of a post I made elsewhere:

If Sky can do that then fair ball to them or even make a business case for doing it...maybe the business case is simply to head off UPC

The only part of the equation where they can make a few bob is on the LLU part. I can't see where they can make significant savings/reductions on the bitstream part of the equation.

LLU line rental currently costs E12.41 so there's some wriggle room there but the bitstream costs are fixed and exorbitant. Here is a table of current costs for bitstream : http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/News/B...am_Price_Cuts/
As you can see the most basic DSL provision costs E21.50.

Now excluding retail minus costings...

so 21.50 + 26 = 47 includes a bit of wholesaler profit
That's about the cheapest that bitstream DSL can be delivered at...and most providers like Voda are only charging E40 (with pathetic caps)
The only real wriggle room is on the cost of the TV package.

Sky must have spotted something we can't see or it's a loss leader

Wireless net

the killer is the line rental.

well then how are vodafone managing to sell the following
and also why the strange requirement to have a line capable of 8mb + speed to get this plan

and you can purchase a 150GB add on for €5.99

so for €35.98 you would get 165GB usage allowance , no calls included, and an 18 month contract. this has to be the cheapest DSL offer out there currently, for broadband only?


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Wireless net

Sponge Bob wrote: »

UPC launched in Bray a year ago and took aound 1/3 of eircoms residential customers off them in only 6 months.

i am delighted to hear that,

bealtine

Wireless net wrote: »

the killer is the line rental.



Broadband Max Value

High speed broadband from only
€29.99 per month*

Can't find any reference to that bundle...
The cheapest one I can find costs E40

http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband/productdetails.jsp?productid=381054&producttypetab=HOMEPHONEBROANDBAND&perlicoid=115007

AlmightyCushion

bealtine wrote: »

Can't find any reference to that bundle...
The cheapest one I can find costs E40

http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband/productdetails.jsp?productid=381054&producttypetab=HOMEPHONEBROANDBAND&perlicoid=115007

http://www.vodafone.ie/offers/broadband-max/

bealtine

The costs outlined above are the retail costs, so therefore Voda must have cut down their charges to wholesale level, this assumes that the wholesale markup is 33%.
The data caps are pathetic so they must have shaved on the bitstream data backhaul too.

Line rental cannot be varied as Comreg set those

Wireless net

bealtine wrote: »

The costs outlined above are the retail costs, so therefore Voda must have cut down their charges to wholesale level, this assumes that the wholesale markup is 33%.
The data caps are pathetic so they must have shaved on the bitstream data backhaul too.

Line rental cannot be varied as Comreg set those

this broadband plan is an 18 month contract.

you can get a 150GB add on for €5.99.

when i called the 1800 number they said that to get this plan, you must already have a speed of 8mb or higher.

dont know why that is, or why that would be required.

i think we will see more special offers coming out, closer to the launch of SKY Broadband

lowelife

Considering Eircom can't even give me a service I don't see how SKY can do it either.
I live in a location where I feel none of the big boys in fixed broadband business, feel its worth their while to put any sort of cable/fibre in.

Peves me off no end that I have to rely on Mobile Broadband but I chose where I live so be it.

Cabaal

lowelife wrote: »

Considering Eircom can't even give me a service I don't see how SKY can do it either.
I live in a location where I feel none of the big boys in fixed broadband business, feel its worth their while to put any sort of cable/fibre in.

Thats the thing, sadly they won't be.

Its the exact same in the uk....if BT Retail can't give you a ip-stream dsl service then no other dsl provider likely can can as they all use BT Openreach's ip-stream wholesale dsl service.

Cheerful Spring

Eircom, i hope they do lose customers and its the only thing they deserve. They've been overcharging for years with every service they have and have been getting away with it. If they had there way DSL will be still be used by everyone in the country today. Only for UPC bringing Cable and Fibre to Ireland have Eircom reacted to it and have slowly started to invest in it.

Eircom, is managed by conservatively mindsetted people, who don't know their head from their ass. They like the other shower who used and still run our banks.

I honestly believe these people are immune to the criticism that exists out there about the company they run. They probably don't hear the complaints and think there company is so fine and dandy. Their image is terrible, but i don't think they get it and care to be honest.

Wireless net

a relative ordered today, the vodafone max value broadband, 150GB additional usage allowance, for €35.98 monthly.

so they have line rental, DSL broadband 165GB data usage for €35.98.

not bad at all, i think this has to be the cheapest on the market currently.

Solair

From eircom's perspective Sky entering the DSL market's probably a positive thing as it might convince some people to stay with DSL rather than switching over to UPC.

As pointed out above, Sky's essentially using eircom's network + BT Ireland to provide DSL service. Eircom make money out of that. Eircom make zero money out of UPC customers as they're connected to a totally different infrastructural network.

D'Peoples Voice

Yes I think Eircom should be worried now.

Looking at Solair's post, I interpreted this as suggesting that even if everyone had access to broadband, at any one point in time maybe only a percentage (the EU average of 27.7%) might be willing to pay for it.

So if UPC already have a penetration rate above the EU average in the urban market, then what ADDITIONAL penetration can Eircom hope to make from their fibre investment in the very same market. Will FTTC be that much better or cheaper to persuade people to switch?

If SKY wish to penetrate this market, as they may be using a poorer product than Eircom's FTTC, product differentiation is pointless, it will have to be price differentiation - that is, lower prices. UPC will naturally react, and a price war should break out, with both companies using the broadband as the loss leader in the overall "entertainment" package. This has the effect of forcing everyone else down in price. Yes Eircom will still be getting money from Sky via EsatBT for use of their network, but they will be under pressure to keep cutting their margins to allow other bitstream providers compete with Sky.

Surely this will mean less revenue for Eircom. In the long term, with less revenue available, it will be more difficult to update the areas outside of the urban areas.

Perhaps 4G might come to the rescue of people in these areas. This might hit Eircom in this market.
But that is how I see it playing out.

Headshot

I ****ing wish that eircom would go bankrupt and maybe someone then can improve the lines

I ****ing fed up of ****e ****e broadband I get off them, the peak hours are killing me

Logical_Bear

Headshot wrote: »

I ****ing wish that eircom would go bankrupt and maybe someone then can improve the lines

I ****ing fed up of ****e ****e broadband I get off them, the peak hours are killing me

Headshot if you're BB is hampered by distance from the exchange,replacing the line wont improve it,the tech just doesnt work over long distances.As for the congestion,it can be improved but it also depends on other factors which can have knock on effects for the rest of the network and as a result Eircom might not be willing to do that.

Worked for tech support for BT in the UK and in alot of rural exchanges they wouldnt increase the bandwith as it could impact speed further down the line(basicaly if it improved BB for a few but caused problems for a majority of its customers they wouldnt improve that exchange)

Headshot

Bear I live right beside the exchange and my stats are right good

eircom Broadband: Connected
DSL Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Speed: 3072 kbps /384 kbps
Line Attenuation (Down/Up): 10 dB /7 dB
DSL Noise Margin: 28 dB /15 dB

The problem is the exchange and eircoms


"The speed available to the end user attached to an exchange is dictated by the backhaul capacity from the exchange into the wider eircom trunk network. Any exchange with less than 24mb backhaul can only offer 3mb and below. This is the case with Golden which has a 16meg backhaul capacity.

Therefore it would not be feasible for eircom to offer the higher speed.

The situation will of course change as eircom upgrades its network backhaul capacity which is being done on a phased basis driven by capacity demands."

PogMoThoin

Headshot wrote: »

I ****ing wish that eircom would go bankrupt and maybe someone then can improve the lines

I ****ing fed up of ****e ****e broadband I get off them, the peak hours are killing me

You need to forget about Eircom. We need a new fibre network, built and owned by the Irish people that all providers can pay to deliver on, including Eircom. We need a long term plan. Our politicians don't seem to care beyond the four years they're in power. No more quick fix mobile crap.

bealtine

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Surely this will mean less revenue for Eircom. In the long term, with less revenue available, it will be more difficult to update the areas outside of the urban areas.

Perhaps 4G might come to the rescue of people in these areas. This might hit Eircom in this market.

The way Comreg have licensed and doled out the spectrum means that 4G won't be delivering anything to those outside urban areas...
see http://irelandoffline.org/2012/06/comreg-and-70-population-coverage/
This shows the way Comreg have described 4G/LTE coverage as 70% population coverage and shows a map outlining what 70% population coverage looks like.
I for one don't expect 4G to deliver anything of real value especially in rural areas.

So far all we know for sure is that Sky have signed a deal with BT and the BT LLU exchanges are only in urban areas.

So nothing in the future (near or far) for non-urban dwellers, the only solution is a national fibre network.

MaxSteele

Eircom lost us as customers with they're 140.00 euro a month phone bills and middle man ratting scheme for the IRMA over "illegally downloading" one song.

bk

Wireless net wrote: »

so for €35.98 you would get 165GB usage allowance , no calls included, and an 18 month contract. this has to be the cheapest DSL offer out there currently, for broadband only?

No, Smart have a much better deal, but more limited to only areas with Smart LLU:

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/home_broadband/more_details/Home_Broadband_Phone.aspx

- €29.95 per month
- 24mbps
- 350GB cap
- 12 month contract