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Why wasn't "planned" shannon town / airport built to accomodate a rail link?

  • 01-08-2012 9:57am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭ yer man!


    This town is on nearly every geography book as a case study for a planned town in Ireland, along with adamstown. What I can't understand is why wasn't this new planned town built to allow a rail link be easily built into it to serve the town and the airport? I know the WRC at sixmilebridge is a fair bit away but they could at least have zoned some areas around the toan for a railway line and station to prevent demolition if a rail was to built in the future or has this been done?


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    when you think about it, a rail link needs to serve every flight that arrives AND departs (how many trains a day would that be?)and presumably would need to head both North to Galway and South to Limerick.(double the number of trains!) I don't think there is (or ever was) enough traffic to justify this, after all Dublin (and even Cork) are busier and don't have this facility.

    If it was ever included in the plans, it was surely only aspirational.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭ pigtown


    While space wasn't allowed for a rail line, it doesn't seem to be an issue according to the feasibility study carried out in 2006.
    http://www.transport21.ie/Publications/upload/File/ShannonFinalReport_Final_%20270607.pdf


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    corktina wrote: »
    when you think about it, a rail link needs to serve every flight that arrives AND departs (how many trains a day would that be?

    Tell Cardiff Airport that...

    one train e/w an hour, does fairly well though as buses are dearer and taxis chronically dearer than the train.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭ Boulevardier


    Corktina, I do not agree that trains would have to serve every possible flight or local destination.

    A link to Limerick would have been enough to start with, and now that the Limerick-galway service is running, a link to Ennis might also be good, though people could always change at 6milebridge.

    I think that when new towns like Shannon and Tallaght were developed, trains were considered to be on the way out. It was a catastrophic mistake which we are still trying to undo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    I didnt say every local destination...I said Galway and Limerick.

    How are you going to get people to rely on the train if there isnt one that gets them to and from their flight when they want it? As with Cardiff,. you would need AT LEAST one an hour in each direction, how would you manage that on a single line ?

    NOONE is going to change trains in the middle of nowhere, and for goodness sake, how many people from Ennis fly to and from Shannon in a day!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 invinciblePRSTV


    What was the logic behind Shannon town anyway? were there other locations considered for a new town or was it always planned as such inaddition to the airport and free trade area?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭ Boulevardier


    Corktina, good point about needing one train an hour. The line from Limerick to 6milebridge needs to be 2-track.

    I can't see passengers between Shannon and Galway minding too much that they have to change at, say, 6milebridge to the Limerick-Galway train. It is not ideal, but I think they would do it if the wait at 6milebridge was not more than 10 minutes or so.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 89,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    would it have anything to do with the Shannon Stopover ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    Corktina, good point about needing one train an hour. The line from Limerick to 6milebridge needs to be 2-track.

    I can't see passengers between Shannon and Galway minding too much that they have to change at, say, 6milebridge to the Limerick-Galway train. It is not ideal, but I think they would do it if the wait at 6milebridge was not more than 10 minutes or so.

    do you not see the total impracibility of it? Now you're talking about double track to Limerick as well as 6 miles of new build.... Thee are far more projects around that would be more practical that a link to Shannon

    If you are talking about a change at Sixmilebridge, would not a bus shuttle do the job just as well?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭ Boulevardier


    Maybe you're right. Shannon is a bit of a hick airport nowadays anyway. It is Dublin that really needs the rail link.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,867 ✭✭✭✭ JupiterKid


    Shannon town was built to house the workers on the then new industrial estate. The National Building Agency (NBA) who built Ballymun flats built much of Shannon town in its early years.

    Shannon town would not exist if it wasn't for the airport and later the "Free Zone" industrial estate. In fact, Shannon played a very important role in the newly industrialising Ireland of the 1960s Sean Lemass era. You've also got to bear in mind that car ownership was far lower in the 60s and thus commuting to the Shannon industrial estate from Limerick or Ennis was not an option for most of the factory workers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ ardmacha


    You've also got to bear in mind that car ownership was far lower in the 60s and thus commuting to the Shannon industrial estate from Limerick or Ennis was not an option for most of the factory workers.

    Sure couldn't they have gone on the train!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,216 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    For the free trade zone concept to work, it needed the industrial estate to be next to the airport and in practical terms the workers had to live close to the industrial estate.

    Back in the day, the people who flew owned cars and never used trains. There would have been no justification in building a railway at a time when the railways generally were being wound down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭ Brennans Row


    yer man! wrote: »
    This town is on nearly every geography book as a case study for a planned town in Ireland, along with adamstown. What I can't understand is why wasn't this new planned town built to allow a rail link be easily built into it to serve the town and the airport?
    It even appears in German school atlases including the planned railway connection (geplanter Eisenbahnanschluss).

    3882320858_de44ee73da_z.jpg?zz=1


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    planning doesn't easily translate between German and Hiberno-English. We almost never plan as Germans do and what we call planning Germans wouldn't :D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭ Winters


    Intriguing questions and equally fascinating discussion.

    I think we can all see why Shannon Town was developed where it is and can put it simply down to the era it was built in as the reasons why rail was not included originally. We were going through a real transitional period in terms of transport then. I suppose you could argue the mistake was made back in the 1930s when the bogs of Rineanna were chosen as the location for the runways. Goes to show how long term planning in terms of infrastructure and town planning can have such knock on effects over the years, both the correct and the incorrect decisions.

    The idea of Adamstown being held up as an example of town planning is confusing. The rezoned lands are all located north of the train station with the rail station at the periphery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭ yer man!


    Winters wrote: »
    The idea of Adamstown being held up as an example of town planning is confusing. The rezoned lands are all located north of the train station with the rail station at the periphery.

    Oh sure the TD's don't own the land south of the railway, sure can't have people buying that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    I agree regarding Adamstown, it would have been better if they had shifted it south, with half the zone area on either side of the railway. Of course it's interesting to see that only a tiny corner of the "new town" is actually in the townland of Adamstown. At least half of townland is south of Canal.


    adamstown.png

    The zone area stretches north as far as Doddsborough, bit of trek to trainstation I would imagine, at least if the planning had been spilt North/South of railway you would have had a greater area within walking distance of trainstation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    Putting much development south of the canal would have brought it closer to the Baldonnel noise contour I suppose, plus I suppose there was also a push to keep people close to Liffey Valley rather than have them go elsewhere? Instead it looks like a halting site was stuck in between the rail line and the canal (Kishogue Park)

    As regards Shannon, one issue could have been that the town was a creature of Shannon Development rather than Clare Co Co per se and that may have hindered a rational and integrated development model.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    I am astounded that German schoolbooks are talking about Shannon!
    Winters wrote: »
    The idea of Adamstown being held up as an example of town planning is confusing. The rezoned lands are all located north of the train station with the rail station at the periphery.
    Adamstown is ideally planned. All roads will lead to the train station making it very accessible and the area south of the railway will almost certainly be developed eventually.
    The reason the town seems poorly laid out now is because they stopped building it before this road network was complete. As such the station is peripheral. This is unfortunate and shows how property crashes are devastating for planning.


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