Judge Mary Devins offensive comments about Polish community

concernman

This is not fair on the hardworking Polish community in Mayo. This comment was not warranted.

Judge Gibbons had himself heard evidence of how Moylette, in a drunk state, had to be restrained by security staff from Cox’s Bar at 1.38am on July 16, 2011. Moylette said to one of them: ‘get off me you fat Polish f***er … you fat Polish prick’. As it turned out the security man was Irish.
Judge Mary Devins was told on Friday last that time was given to decide if there was a suitable Polish charity.
“There is, it’s called social welfare,” said Judge Devins.
It was suggested to her that the Polish Chaplaincy in Ireland could be a suitable charity but Judge Devins said she would prefer a local charity to benefit.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15818:judge-refuses-to-grant-money-to-polish-charity&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

suicide_circus

Wow that's a fairly disgraceful and nasty remark.

nicol

That is disgraceful!! She should step down or at least be made to account for her remarks!!

Oldtree

that link disappeared quickly........

has a go at everyone that one:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shocked-judge-defends-criticism-of-gardai-175354.html

qrrgprgua

nicol wrote: »

That is disgraceful!! She should step down or at least be made to account for her remarks!!

Yeah ... Sure Social welfare.. Lets not kid ourselves. over 15% of Ballina was unemployed back in 2003 before any Polish arrived.

I know a Polish lad who was turned away from social welfare because his employer who deducted PRSI did not pass it on.. Now he has no Job and no Dole.

The Polish didn't come here to draw the Dole, as they can't, they have to work. And if they get fired they are entitled to be treated like anyone else.

Or are we going down the road of Treating the Polish like the English and Americans treated the Irish in decades gone by.

oscarBravo

qrrgprgua wrote: »

I know a Polish lad who was turned away from social welfare because his employer who deducted PRSI did not pass it on.. Now he has no Job and no Dole.

Please, please tell me that employer has been reported to Revenue and taken to the cleaners as a result.

qrrgprgua

oscarBravo wrote: »

Please, please tell me that employer has been reported to Revenue and taken to the cleaners as a result.

Reported yes,.. But what can be done when he is in Australia now.

oscarBravo

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Reported yes,.. But what can be done when he is in Australia now.

Personally, I'd be tempted to write to the Australian tax authorities recommending that they scrutinise his tax affairs very, very carefully.

But maybe I'm a bad person.

qrrgprgua

oscarBravo wrote: »

Personally, I'd be tempted to write to the Australian tax authorities recommending that they scrutinise his tax affairs very, very carefully.

But maybe I'm a bad person.

Half thinking about publicly naming the Guy here. The Guy has pay slips.. But they seem printed in an ink jet printer. Revenue have all the details.

Should I name and shame here?

oscarBravo

Probably not a good idea, unfortunately.

An inkjet-printed payslip isn't a problem. Taking money from someone to give to the taxman and then not giving it to the taxman is basically stealing from both the employee and from all of us as taxpayers.

irishgeo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Probably not a good idea, unfortunately.

An inkjet-printed payslip isn't a problem. Taking money from someone to give to the taxman and then not giving it to the taxman is basically stealing from both the employee and from all of us as taxpayers.

just ask mick wallace.

Oldtree

Judge has issued an apology through court service:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0802/1224321296119.html

Judge Gibbons said he could not have people going around expressing these sort of ideas and that these views had to be stopped in their tracks.

Couldnt agree more with Judge Gibbons and it was a Pathetic response by Judge Devin hiding behind the courts service, should have made a groveling public apology and resign, guilded cage comes to mind as does FF connections!

meelyb

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Yeah ... Sure Social welfare.. Lets not kid ourselves. over 15% of Ballina was unemployed back in 2003 before any Polish arrived.

I know a Polish lad who was turned away from social welfare because his employer who deducted PRSI did not pass it on.. Now he has no Job and no Dole.

The Polish didn't come here to draw the Dole, as they can't, they have to work. And if they get fired they are entitled to be treated like anyone else.

Or are we going down the road of Treating the Polish like the English and Americans treated the Irish in decades gone by.

There are two different types of social welfare. He must have applied for Job Seekers Benefit. He would be entitled to JobSeekers Allowance I imagine. For example, do you think the Romanian families (some not all obv as it is unfair to generalise) claiming welfare here worked and paid PRSI here in Ireland at any stage and that is why they get the dole. No. And I am not being racist but this is highly unlikely. I myself (I’m Irish, 28, and working/paying tax here since I was 16) was also refused Job Seekers benefit. Don’t know why I was refused. They don’t make it easy, I was in there every day for 2 months, waiting in queues trying to sort something. That is a whole other story but Eventually I got Job Seekers Allowance (and 2months later I thankfully secured a job). The point is that I was in the Dublin city centre office every day for 2 months. And Everytime I was either the only Irish person or one of a handful amongst many many people from outside Ireland for whom English did not seem to be their first language. I used to think people who gave out about 'them foreigners coming here and taking our jobs/on welfare' were uneducated bigots. But I saw, regularly and first hand, the welfare part is kinda true. My sister laughed at me when I said it. She lost her job 6 months ago and went to sign on in her local welfare office in the Midlands. One of the first things she remarked was how she felt like she was the only Irish person there. I am Irish and found trying to claim a challenge. There are non-English sites in the net that help people coming here claim benefits. I was in tears in that office a lot!

This judge sees first hand a LOT of similar cases so her opinion- while it should never have been uttered in a professional capacity- was founded by her experience. Do the ‘foreigners’ deserve to be criticised though? NO. It is our government who enables this. This judge’s employer, the state, enables what she is criticising. I initially had to turn down a job paying 28k- as I lived with my boyfriend who was out of work. He would’ve lost his dole and we would’ve lost rent allowance & petrol money etc. Which means I would have to pay 750 rent a month, all the bills, lunch & travel/commute to the job and subsidies his old €188 a week. I sat down and did the maths- I was much better off on the dole until I got the better paid job I have now. My bf is also back working fortunately. The foreign people doing the low paid jobs (retail such as centra/spar etc) should be commended –as our government would pay them more on the dole. We need to stop being afraid of being ‘racist’ and just do the maths. If the Spanish or Italian gov offered to subsidise my rent up to €750, give me petrol/clothes money and spending of €188 a week, I’d be over there for a 3month holiday! Fact is, they don’t. And they are not racist.

Jim2007

meelyb wrote: »

This judge sees first hand a LOT of similar cases so her opinion- while it should never have been uttered in a professional capacity- was founded by her experience.

You don't get it. Not alone must justice be done, it must be seen to be done, a judge must at all times act with impartiality and this judge has done anything but...

1. Failure to adhere to a fellow judges ruling by refusing to transfer the funds as ordered to a Polish charity..... the question before her was to confirm that the charity proposed was acceptable - "she preferred to see locals benefit". The original offence was abuse of Poles and the trail judges intention was that their poor should benefit.

2. Her comments during the hearing

3. Her failure to apologise unreservedly - the apology was a litany of excuses for what was said as apposed to accepting responsibility for what she said...

There is not place for favouritism or victimisation on the bench, of any kind and at this point if she fails to resign, then termination should be the next option.

In addition to the harm caused to the legal system by this kind of behaviour, there is also the harm caused to us internationally and particularly within the EU. Having it flashed across the air waves that our legal systems is full of xenophobia judges, does not help us attract tourists, export our goods and services or gain support for our position with our EU colleagues!

nuac

I suggest this is a silly season thread. Overblown

Judge Devins is not a racist. She decides the cases before her on the evidence and law.

Graciefacey

There are countless people coming to.my workplace with social cheques in one hand and wages in the other, of all nationalities Irish more than most!!

Jim2007

nuac wrote: »

I suggest this is a silly season thread. Overblown

Judge Devins is not a racist. She decides the cases before her on the evidence and law.

Her original apology was along the lines that she was actually referring to a previous drunk and disorderly case were the accused were Polish, as if that made it alright!

We are talking about an advocate here, someone skilled in the law. She had ample opportunity to but it right, but she did not - sorry I ment some other Poles... puts it in a very different category to a simple slip up.

blobbybag

' The original offence was abuse of Poles and the trail judges intention was that their poor should benefit.'
But didn't the original offence turn out to be against an Irishman? So she was correct in that if there was a choice of charity, the offended party should be represented.
Her comments aside, she was correct in that. No polish people were hurt by the defendants actions.

We can also see that the only reason she retracted her remarks was out of cowardice to avoid a formal complaint. So we have a judge who in all likelihood still holds the same opinions, and immigrant associations who have stifled (idiotic) free speech.

Everybody loses!

irishgeo

Graciefacey wrote: »

There are countless people coming to.my workplace with social cheques in one hand and wages in the other, of all nationalities Irish more than most!!

Thats a failure of the system we have more PPS numbers than population.

The lack of Joined up IT between revenue and social welfare.

The best thing that could have happened was the IMF coming in at least they have to sort this kinda of thing out now.

Sminkypinky

How can she now be trusted to be impartial when dealing with anyone from Poland or Eastern Europe?
Would it be too much to expect that she will do the decent thing and resign?

biko

She still has to act within the law so it's not likely she will be able to stray from that even if she wanted to.

juan.kerr

Sminkypinky wrote: »

How can she now be trusted to be impartial when dealing with anyone from Poland or Eastern Europe?

:rolleyes: clutching at straws there, I fear...

qrrgprgua

irishgeo wrote: »

Thats a failure of the system we have more PPS numbers than population.

The lack of Joined up IT between revenue and social welfare.

The best thing that could have happened was the IMF coming in at least they have to sort this kinda of thing out now.

Well I know lots of Irish People with Multiple PPS numbers. Some families intentionally name several male members of family with the same name surname so they can scam the system.

One Irish guy who was living abroad had 21 different identities. He has since been convicted.

In the height of the Boom in Ireland there was 80 thousand long term unemployed, this was before the eastern Europe states entered the EU.

The problem with long term unemployment in Ireland is not the foreigners its the Irish themselves. Some people know every single entitlement and get comfortable playing the system. And there are thousands of them.

When I see neighbours who are on the dole return at 3am from the pub.. I know there is something seriously wrong with the Social welfare system.If they can afford to get drunk every weekend.. they are getting too much in social benefits.

Carlos_Ray

This is the second example, in the space of a week, of how inadequate and backward are judicial system is. First a judge lets a violent sex attacker knock 4 and half years of his sentence because he's rich and now another idiot judge makes a comment like this. I can only imagine the outrage if a British judge made a similar remark about Irish people.

In any other Western country she would be relieved of her position or forced to resign, but not here! This country is rotten to its core and it drastically needs a complete overhaul of its institutions. Like the politicians, the judges are routinely failing the people. When will this stop?

I'm getting to the point where I actually think it would be better to hand over complete control of our country to Germany. Not because we don't have the people to rule the state correctly. Indeed I believe the opposite. I think we have fantastic people, however, they simply can't get an opportunity under the present structures to blossom. Years of corruption and nepotism has secured the inept elite in this country and has prevented decent people having significant influence. This judge should be sacked, but she'll be protected by her friends which is sadly is the norm.

zen260

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

This is the second example, in the space of a week, of how inadequate and backward are judicial system is. First a judge lets a violent sex attacker knock 4 and half years of his sentence because he's rich and now another idiot judge makes a comment like this. I can only imagine the outrage if a British judge made a similar remark about Irish people.

In any other Western country she would be relieved of her position or forced to resign, but not here! This country is rotten to its core and it drastically needs a complete overhaul of its institutions. Like the politicians, the judges are routinely failing the people. When will this stop?

I'm getting to the point where I actually think it would be better to hand over complete control of our country to Germany. Not because we don't have the people to rule the state correctly. Indeed I believe the opposite. I think we have fantastic people, however, they simply can't get an opportunity under the present structures to blossom. Years of corruption and nepotism has secured the inept elite in this country and has prevented decent people having significant influence. This judge should be sacked, but she'll be protected by her friends which is sadly is the norm.

well said my friend,,,i agree with you 100%,,,as regards germany running our country again i agree,i have been to munich 8 years in row now and have family there,,,there country is booming,,,everything runs to perfection,,citys are spotless ect,,,as regards MARY DEVINS dont get me started,,,i just got banned here for a weeks for remarkes i made,,,yes indeed the powers that be in this country are rotten to the core,,,

MaroonAndGreen

She just said what many people were probably thinking.. fair play to her!

MadsL

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Well I know lots of Irish People with Multiple PPS numbers.

Have you reported them?

Qualitymark

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I'm getting to the point where I actually think it would be better to hand over complete control of our country to Germany.

Germany doesn't have a great history as a colonist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

Those who think the German government is wonderful because the streets are clean may learn otherwise by going to the country, where they will see shopkeepers out cleaning the streets in front of their shops every morning at 6am before they open up; there are few politicians helping.