Garage requires deposit

Fumes

I have recently left my car in with a garage because of a few engine problems. The mechanic called me today with the price for the work (circa €800). He has asked me to call into him to pay a deposit of €400 for parts before he will commence the work. Is this normal practice?

George Dalton

Lots of garages do it. We don't usually do it but I have been caught out a few times where I ordered expensive parts that I could not return and the customer ended up not taking them.

MidlandsM

Tell him to Fu(k off OP, if he wants the work ok, if not, no bothers.

Drummerboy08

MidlandsM wrote: »

Tell him to Fu(k off OP, if he wants the work ok, if not, no bothers.

This wouldn't be the best way to go about it.

MidlandsM

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

This wouldn't be the best way to go about it.

yeah, it would. whats the worst will happen? He'd not do the work..........big deal.....another will without the T's and C's.......

whomitconcerns

whats the problem with paying a deposit??? Were you planning on not paying for the work?

flutered

more have been caught than paid, a main dealer near me locks cars repaired cars in a compound until payment is recieved.

MidlandsM

Re; locking up cars, that fine, if they don't get paid @ the end of the work. We're talkingabout a deposit scenario here, slightly different........

what if the garage goes bust overnight?

no parts you paid for?
no car?

it's happened...........also, will you get a months credit on payment, like the garage will from their suppliers ?? doubt it!

whomitconcerns

MidlandsM wrote: »

what if the garage goes bust overnight?

no parts you paid for?
no car?

it's happened...........also, will you get a months credit on payment, like the garage will from their suppliers ?? doubt it!

And what if the OP decides he doesnt want to pay (not that I m suggesting that). My father has had issues like this where people just go Ill give you 600 and we call it quits, cant afford anymore sorry!

It cuts both ways...

goz83

It is a little unusual asking for a deposit. A simple way around this would be that once you agree to have the work done (maybe sign to say so), that you agree to their terms and conditions of covering at the very least, the cost of parts at their rrp + vat, + admin fee of x% if you decided to get the work done elsewhere.

In saying this, if you trust the garage, pay the deposit. People are very weary paying anything upfront these days, because so many businesses are closing. Imagine paying €400 and the next day, the place goes into liquidation :eek:

EDIT: I see midlandsm got there 1st

MarkR

MidlandsM wrote: »

yeah, it would. whats the worst will happen? He'd not do the work..........big deal.....another will without the T's and C's.......

That's not a particularly onerous term / condition. OP is (presumably) going to pay the bill at the end anyway.

OP, if you feel that this garage is the best one for your car (value / service) I wouldn't let the request for a deposit worry you. Get a receipt of course.

MidlandsM

George Dalton wrote: »

I have been caught out a few times where I ordered expensive parts that I could not return and the customer ended up not taking them.

did you not fit the parts? cos if you did, you have to get paid for them when the customer handover takes please?

George Dalton

MidlandsM wrote: »

did you not fit the parts? cos if you did, you have to get paid for them when the customer handover takes please?

Situations where I got caught would be slightly different to the OP.

Either I would diagnose the problem and the owner would take the car back while I ordered the parts and then either not come back at all or come back with a secondhand or cheaper part.

Or else people would book a car in for a certain job on a certain day and I would (obviously) make sure I had the parts to do the job as arranged but then the person wouldn't show up. That happened to me yesterday actually. I now have approximately €400 worth of parts sitting on the shelf that I will possibly be waiting a very long time before I get to use them.

whomitconcerns

Actually just realised...if you are asking this question in the first place then you have your doubts about the garage anyway..so you've answered your own question as to whether you should do it or not.

I would never give a deposit or deal with anyone I dont trust...so if I had to ask on an internet forum...I would clearly have my doubts..

George Dalton

whomitconcerns wrote: »

I would never give a deposit or deal with anyone I dont trust...so if I had to ask on an internet forum...I would clearly have my doubts..

Trust works both ways. Anyone who is in business would be a fool to trust every member of the public that they deal with.

whomitconcerns

George Dalton wrote: »

Trust works both ways. Anyone who is in business would be a fool to trust every member of the public that they deal with.

This is my point..if the OP has doubts about paying a deposit then he must have some doubts about the garage..and you could assume that if it isn't standard practice to take a deposit then the garage was probably burned recently for a payment..

Its a vicious circle...go wan OP trust the garage! Then eulogise how great he is after! Or destroy him if need be :P thats what the forum is for (joke)

Yardleys Lavender

I think that things have gotten very tight recently and that generally those who supply goods and services can't be carrying stock especially if it's special order and vehicle specific.

I'd have no problem paying a deposit for parts, but saying that I trust my garage. I think it would be quite silly not to trust the people that I entrust the most expensive thing I own. And then saying that, I whittled through a couple of garages before I found a good one.

pred racer

If its the first time you have used this garage, fair enough they have to protect themselves.
But if you are already a customer of theirs (and presumably have not dicked them about before) I personally would be worried as looking for money up front says to me that they have no credit left with their suppliers, or are beginning to have cash flow problems (robbing peter to pay paul)

I can see why, as a business you would want to do it, but to me it sends the wrong signals.

@George Dalton, just out of curiosity what sort of prts would you order that you couldnt send back? Ive got a rear hub assembly for a 406 somewhere that I got from pugeot which they wouldnt take back, they blamed the fact it was an import for giving me the wrong part even though I brought them in the car to check first ffs!

hi5

Is the car worth €800? Maybe the op having given the go ahead will decide to spent the €800 on a better car that doesn't need work, has a years NCT and a few months tax.
The garage is then stuck with a car they cant sell with no paperwork and the loss of €800 they just pumped into it.

George Dalton

pred racer wrote: »

If its the first time you have used this garage, fair enough they have to protect themselves.
But if you are already a customer of theirs (and presumably have not dicked them about before) I personally would be worried as looking for money up front says to me that they have no credit left with their suppliers, or are beginning to have cash flow problems (robbing peter to pay paul)

I can see why, as a business you would want to do it, but to me it sends the wrong signals.

@George Dalton, just out of curiosity what sort of prts would you order that you couldnt send back? Ive got a rear hub assembly for a 406 somewhere that I got from pugeot which they wouldnt take back, they blamed the fact it was an import for giving me the wrong part even though I brought them in the car to check first ffs!

Any special order parts from a main dealer are generally non-returnable. I have quite a collection of them here

HellFireClub

I'm hearing through the trade that what is happening at the moment is that on expensive repair jobs, some customers are leaving a car in for repair work, and not coming back to collect the car for several weeks. They aren't trying to take the car out of the garage, they are happy to leave it there until they can get the cash together to pay for the job, sometimes blagging that they have been away on holidays, etc.

Just say for example clutch & transmission, which is an area I specialise in, on some vehicles, (just off my head, vehicles such as a Hyundai Santa Fe, or an Opel Insignia), the parts bill alone for Original Equipment replacement components (usually LuK) for a full clutch & dual mass flywheel replacement on these vehicles is usually around the 1,200 Euro mark, this is what a garage is into on a parts bill before a screw gets turned in respect of labour.

So even if you operate a policy of not releasing the vehicle until the invoice has been fully settled, (as is the norm), you can still find yourself carrying a parts bill on some jobs for well over 1,000 Euro, on just one transaction, and that cash can be tied up for weeks or months, depending on who you are dealing with.

I know of a guy who recently brought a 4 x 4 vehicle into a gearbox specialist centre for the transmission to be fixed, when he was phoned with the bill (a couple of thousand Euro), he said he didn't have the money to pay for it and instructed the outlet to sell the vehicle and keep the change for him....

Sad sign of the times unfortunately, and if you think about it, having a couple of thousand Euro tied up now in parts can really put you out of business...

Fumes

The car is a 2004 3 series BMW which I hope is worth a bit more that €800! It is my first time using this garage, they are independent BMW specialists. I am having my doubts about them because I left the car in last Thursday to be assessed and I was only contacted today to tell me the work that needed doing.

Fumes

whomitconcerns wrote: »

whats the problem with paying a deposit??? Were you planning on not paying for the work?

I've no problem paying it, I just thought it was a little unusual.

BuzzFish

Fumes wrote: »

The car is a 2004 3 series BMW which I hope is worth a bit more that €800! It is my first time using this garage, they are independent BMW specialists. I am having my doubts about them because I left the car in last Thursday to be assessed and I was only contacted today to tell me the work that needed doing.

Their service seems crap. How has it taken so long to tell you what is wrong?

Personally I have never paid a deposit and never would. Will he give you back your deposit if you are not happy with his work? What happens if you give him 400 deposit and suddenly when he finishes the job he tells you that "It took longer than I thought mate" and adds another few hundred on top? More likely to try a trick like this when he already has some of your money in his pocket.

The car is good enough deposit.

the culture of deference

What work needs to be done?

What parts are you paying a deposit for?

Tell them you will supply the parts

OldmanMondeo

MidlandsM wrote: »

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

This wouldn't be the best way to go about it.

yeah, it would. whats the worst will happen? He'd not do the work..........big deal.....another will without the T's and C's.......

Maybe the part required has to be ordered specially on a no return with the importer. Why would a garage want to be stuck with a few hundred quid of parts he may never use or be able to return?

HellFireClub

the culture of deference wrote: »

What work needs to be done?

What parts are you paying a deposit for?

Tell them you will supply the parts

That's grand, and will the customer take responsibility for those parts if there is a warranty issue with them? And fork out again for the labour if the parts are not the right quality or if they are the right quality but fail prematurely, after all, it's the customer who is supplying (and therefore must stand over) the parts...

sheehan12

that **** garage do not give a 1 cent i took my car for a timebelt change to garage and when i rev the engine the belt came off and made **** of engine this was in the workshop and wanted me to pay 400 for timebelt change before they try to fix the engine keep well clear of that garage

Fumes

sheehan12 wrote: »

that **** garage do not give a 1 cent i took my car for a timebelt change to garage and when i rev the engine the belt came off and made **** of engine this was in the workshop and wanted me to pay 400 for timebelt change before they try to fix the engine keep well clear of that garage

How do you know what garage I am talking about?

goz83

Fumes wrote: »

How do you know what garage I am talking about?

With 3 posts, do you expect an honest answer?

dr.fuzzenstein

Fumes wrote: »

How do you know what garage I am talking about?

How do you even know what he's talking about?
Looks like an alien selected a few words at random from a dictionary and strung them together in the hope that they make a recognisable sentence.
They don't.

Stoolbend

Its a bit strange alright, but it depends on what work has to be done and what parts have to be ordered.

sean1141

BuzzFish wrote: »

What happens if you give him 400 deposit and suddenly when he finishes the job he tells you that "It took longer than I thought mate" and adds another few hundred on top?

Could as easy happen with no deposit paid. A mechanic can only give a guess of how long a job will take. One wrung off bolt head could add an hours extra labour.


Op look at this from the garages point of view. You are a complete stranger to them. You are getting a job done that costs almost a grand.
What if you dont pay for a few weeks or what if you car was on finance and you decide to not pay for either the work or the finance on the car. They will be at the loss of parts, labour and the finance will take the car back, without paying your garage bill!
Im not saying this is the case but they must have got stung before to have this policy in place. If your happy to get the work done and pay for it pay the deposit and get a recipt for it.

mickdw

If you call to the garage, it might go down something like this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqwNQC5GH4w

the culture of deference

HellFireClub wrote: »

That's grand, and will the customer take responsibility for those parts if there is a warranty issue with them? And fork out again for the labour if the parts are not the right quality or if they are the right quality but fail prematurely, after all, it's the customer who is supplying (and therefore must stand over) the parts...

No, but at least you will know if the work needs to be done, or you can get an alternative quote from another garage.

MidlandsM

yep, a second opinion is good to get ..... always......

HellFireClub

the culture of deference wrote: »

No, but at least you will know if the work needs to be done, or you can get an alternative quote from another garage.

Just saying this as a trade professional... If you go down the road of supplying your own parts as a customer, you are exposing yourself to a potential nightmare, in the event that there is a warranty problem or a premature end of life issue with those parts.

Case A: Garage supplies parts & labour. With regard to the work done, any issues with the car subsequently, insofar as there is a problem with the component that was fitted, (turbo replaced but subsequently sounds abnormal, has a whistle, etc, or clutch replaced but has a shudder, etc), under the sale of goods & Supply of Services Act, resolving this situation and the costs thereof, this falls entirely upon the garage to resolve this issue at no additional cost to the customer.

Case B: Customer supplied the parts, garage supplies the labour. In the event that a defect is apparent with a part post installation, the customer has to bring the part back to the supplier. For this to be possible, clearly the part has to be removed. In the case of a clutch, this could be up to a days labour. The outlet that supplied the part will not accept a warranty until it's been tested by the manufacturer (in the case of LuK, Valeo, anyway), so customer will have to pay out for another part until warranty is accepted by the manufacturer post inspection. It may well turn out to be the case that the manufacturer, after testing the part, will attribute blame to the mechanic for the part not having been fitted correctly.

In the meantime, (this can take up to 6 months to get resolved), you are completely in limbo between your parts supplier and your mechanic.

I genuinely don't know how or why people take this on as a potential nightmare, when the alternative is just hand the car & keys back to the garage and insist on whatever the issue that is there, is resolved. You can't do this when you supply the parts yourself.

the culture of deference

HellFireClub wrote: »

Just saying this as a trade professional... If you go down the road of supplying your own parts as a customer, you are exposing yourself to a potential nightmare, in the event that there is a warranty problem or a premature end of life issue with those parts.


I genuinely don't know how or why people take this on as a potential nightmare, when the alternative is just hand the car & keys back to the garage and insist on whatever the issue that is there, is resolved. You can't do this when you supply the parts yourself.

I understand where you are coming from. All I am saying is that the OP gets the price for the parts and labour and a 2nd opinion from another mechanic.

jayok

To the OP from personal experience I needed to get a new part supplied and fitted by a main dealer. As the part was a special order they asked me to pay via credit card - no problem as I needed the part anyway and only the labour was to be paid later.

FWIW I think if you pay credit card and don't receive the products and the company goes busy it the credit card companys problem...

dr.fuzzenstein

If a whole heap of parts are needed and they cost a thousand or more, I wouldn't blame the garage for asking for money for the parts in advance.
The problem with getting the parts yourself and giving them to the garage to fit is...you have to pay for the parts in advance, the exact same way you would have to if the garage asked you for a deposit!
So, in saying to the garage "I'm getting those parts myself, doncherknow!", you are still paying in advance for the parts, making life more difficult and complicated. Must be an Irish thing.
Let's just say the garage says to me "We need to order component A, costing X, component B, costing Y, so you need to pay us X+Y for the parts", where is the problem? I just don't understand.
As long as the garage laid it out plainly and showed me they weren’t bilking me, I'd have no problem.

Now just imaging you're going to a garage and they'll say "We don't need a deposit for the parts", well, guess what?
YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE PARTS AFTERWARD!
Well blow me down and spin my nipplenuts!
So, in the end (with some general maths knowledge), you can work out, it will cost exactly the same!
Well who'd a thought that?!

Yardleys Lavender

If you buy the bits yourself, you'll be paying 23% on the supply of parts alone.

If you get the garage to supply and fit the parts, then not only have you got a a job that would be guaranteed should something go wrong, but the parts will only have 13.5% vat on them. There would really want to be a big saving to gamble with your car.

If you went to build a house in the morning, then the builder would be getting some money up front. Mostly for the concrete to build the foundation. If you bought a couch from a furniture place, then most likely a deposit would be paid. To bring it down to the basic level, if you went through the drivethru at McDonalds you pay before you even see the food. There's nothing strange about deposits, but there really is a hatred towards garages.

OldmanMondeo

HellFireClub wrote: »

Just saying this as a trade professional... If you go down the road of supplying your own parts as a customer, you are exposing yourself to a potential nightmare, in the event that there is a warranty problem or a premature end of life issue with those parts.

Case A: Garage supplies parts & labour. With regard to the work done, any issues with the car subsequently, insofar as there is a problem with the component that was fitted, (turbo replaced but subsequently sounds abnormal, has a whistle, etc, or clutch replaced but has a shudder, etc), under the sale of goods & Supply of Services Act, resolving this situation and the costs thereof, this falls entirely upon the garage to resolve this issue at no additional cost to the customer.

Case B: Customer supplied the parts, garage supplies the labour. In the event that a defect is apparent with a part post installation, the customer has to bring the part back to the supplier. For this to be possible, clearly the part has to be removed. In the case of a clutch, this could be up to a days labour. The outlet that supplied the part will not accept a warranty until it's been tested by the manufacturer (in the case of LuK, Valeo, Add Sachs there as well anyway), so customer will have to pay out for another part until warranty is accepted by the manufacturer post inspection. It may well turn out to be the case that the manufacturer, after testing the part, will attribute blame to the mechanic for the part not having been fitted correctly.

In the meantime, (this can take up to 6 months to get resolved Never heard any ever taken that long, I have sold all 3 major brands, LUK, Valeo & Sachs, might be a month, maybe 2 but never anymore.), you are completely in limbo between your parts supplier and your mechanic.

I genuinely don't know how or why people take this on as a potential nightmare, when the alternative is just hand the car & keys back to the garage and insist on whatever the issue that is there, is resolved. You can't do this when you supply the parts yourself.

A few points.

HellFireClub

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

A few points.

I have a warranty claim on my desk outstanding since last January. My customer delayed in getting his labour invoice to me, (because he paid cash to his mechanic for the labour after supplying his own parts that I supplied, on the understanding that he was being let off with the VAT for the labour, therefore his mechanic was reluctant to issue a labour invoice/receipt when a problem subsequently arose), then my supplier delayed in sending the "faulty" parts back to the manufacturer, because there was no labour invoice available to ship with the returned product when I returned the parts to them. As if this wasn't complicated enough, it then transpired that another completely different defect with the car had probably caused the whole problem, but we were not advised of this... The case continues...

In any event, be it 1 month to process a warranty or 6 months, it's hassle that no person needs to have to take on & largely avoidable if you let a professional outlet do the whole job. The problem at the moment is that everyone seems to be penny wise and pound foolish.

exador

George Dalton wrote: »

Any special order parts from a main dealer are generally non-returnable. I have quite a collection of them here

Sounds like you have a collection of reasons why a deposit should be taken. The original post was if this was normal practice which in my experience it is and if not it should be, on special order parts. The whole tone of the conversation can change when the deposit comes up. If anything it gives the Customer/mechanic the opportunity to double check that he is 100% that he actually needs the part.

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^
And for garages to be absolutely sure they need the part as well.
Technicians are familiar with the term "Easter Egging", which means randomly changing parts to fix a problem they can't figure out in the hope that, by pure chance, they change the part that actually needs changing.
But that again boils down to: Do you trust your garage?:D