Childcare, can you take a break from the service & do u have to pay during the break

Mommy

I am a teacher & do not require full time care for my kids during the summer. My childminder gets paid 2 weeks for her holiday leave. If I wish to take 2+ weeks holidays from my childminder services, am I obliged to pay for these weeks.
Initially, when agreeing to bring my kids to the childminder, I would have said that due to my occupation full time care is not required during the summer months. What do you think... pay full amount, 1/2 pay, zero?

Delancey

OP ,you would probably get better informed replies in the Parenting forum.

Mrs OBumble

Mommy wrote: »

I am a teacher & do not require full time care for my kids during the summer. My childminder gets paid 2 weeks for her holiday leave. If I wish to take 2+ weeks holidays from my childminder services, am I obliged to pay for these weeks.
Initially, when agreeing to bring my kids to the childminder, I would have said that due to my occupation full time care is not required during the summer months. What do you think... pay full amount, 1/2 pay, zero?

This is work and jobs, so let's start with the employment perspective: the childminder (like any other employee) is entitled to four weeks paid leave, not 2. This is why parents, in general, are asked to pay for period when service aren't open.

After that, if there are periods when you don't want to use the service, then it depends on whether you want the childminder to keep the place for your child when you do want it again. Many child-care services operate on the basis that you need to pay if you want to keep the place. I guess childminders might be doing the same. (By comparison, would you expect a pub to hold a seat empty for you until you come back next week, unless you pay them for it?)

There are people (me included) who believe that people running businesses like childcare services should actually figure in the cost of leave and intermittent absences to their regular daily or hourly rate. But we are in the minority, and most childcare services don't do it. (It would put everyone's hourly rate up, and the winners would be parents like yourself who only need casual hours at certain times.)

At the end of the day, I guess you options are to honour the contract you have with the childminder, or find a new one.

wmpdd3

The way most people I know work is, if the childminder works in the family's home, they get paid holidays and PRSI etc like any employee.

If they mind the kids in the childminders own home then the childminder doesnt get paid holidays.

Mr. Loverman

If your class of students all decided to go on holiday for two weeks, would you expect to still get paid? I suspect you would...

StillWaters

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The way most people I know work is, if the childminder works in the family's home, they get paid holidays and PRSI etc like any employee.

If they mind the kids in the childminders own home then the childminder doesnt get paid holidays.

Yes, that's the legalities of it. If the childminder comes to your home they are an employee and subject to minimum wage, paid holiday etc. If they mind in their own home, they are self employed, set their own rates and terms.

Was this not discussed at the outset. Usually it would be a case of 2 weeks unpaid holidays (when childminder chooses) and two weeks paid (when parent chooses) but there is lots of variation on this.

Millem

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If your class of students all decided to go on holiday for two weeks, would you expect to still get paid? I suspect you would...

Mr. Loverman there is a big difference between paying for 2 weeks and paying for 18 weeks (which are Mommy's holidays if she is a secondary school teacher)!

Millem

Mommy wrote: »

I am a teacher & do not require full time care for my kids during the summer. My childminder gets paid 2 weeks for her holiday leave. If I wish to take 2+ weeks holidays from my childminder services, am I obliged to pay for these weeks.
Initially, when agreeing to bring my kids to the childminder, I would have said that due to my occupation full time care is not required during the summer months. What do you think... pay full amount, 1/2 pay, zero?

Mommy I have heard of places offering "term time". Maybe you could suggest this to childminder but pay her more during year?

ashes79

I have family who are teachers & don't always need my childminder during school holidays as I luckily can rely on them. However, it was agreed with my childminder at the outset that she would get half pay during this period. It gives me peace of mind that the place will not be taken by someone who will pay fulltime hours all year. And it keeps my childminder happy also. It works well for us & if anything happens & I do need her she is always ready to help out. I am lucky that we get on so well though, she's like a 2nd mother to my son & that is what I always wanted for him.

Mommy

Not a fair comparison

Mommy

ashes79 wrote: »

I have family who are teachers & don't always need my childminder during school holidays as I luckily can rely on them. However, it was agreed with my childminder at the outset that she would get half pay during this period. It gives me peace of mind that the place will not be taken by someone who will pay fulltime hours all year. And it keeps my childminder happy also. It works well for us & if anything happens & I do need her she is always ready to help out. I am lucky that we get on so well though, she's like a 2nd mother to my son & that is what I always wanted for him.

I think that is reasonable

Mommy

Thank you all for your info.

On day 1 I would have highlighted to the childminder who minds the kids in her own home and does not pay tax of the seasonal nature of the job. At the time she was very happy with this. She has now been minding my kids 6 years. She is a great childminder . BUT, With every year she is increasing the cost of childcare despite a recession and at this time of year becomes increasingly disgruntled if I take 2/3 weeks off.This really stresses me out and takes the good out of enjoying the time with my kids. Maybe its time for a fresh start elsewhere, where conditions are set in stone.:(

implausible

Mommy wrote: »

On day 1 I would have highlighted to the childminder who minds the kids in her own home and does not pay tax of the seasonal nature of the job.

In fairness, as you are a teacher, she should know exactly what to expect! Is this all cash in hand? I ask because I was left dumbstruck by my childminder before the holidays (I'm a teacher too) when she asked for holiday pay. I was annoyed as I have always given her extra money coming up to the holidays and didn't think she would feel the need to ask for it. Secondly, both she and her husband are claiming social welfare and working and as she is not paying tax etc, I felt it was a bit rich asking for holiday pay!

Mr. Loverman

Mommy wrote: »

Thank you all for your info.

On day 1 I would have highlighted to the childminder who minds the kids in her own home and does not pay tax of the seasonal nature of the job. At the time she was very happy with this. She has now been minding my kids 6 years. She is a great childminder . BUT, With every year she is increasing the cost of childcare despite a recession and at this time of year becomes increasingly disgruntled if I take 2/3 weeks off.This really stresses me out and takes the good out of enjoying the time with my kids. Maybe its time for a fresh start elsewhere, where conditions are set in stone.:(

I'm not sure how her tax affair are relevant to the discussion. I also think she is entitled to increase her costs (after all, we are still in an inflationary period).

It sounds like you simply don't want to pay her during your holidays. Personally I don't agree with this; I would have thought you would be more sympathetic considering your own generous holiday arrangements. If I were in your shoes I would pay her.

implausible

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'm not sure how her tax affair are relevant to the discussion. I also think she is entitled to increase her costs (after all, we are still in an inflationary period).

I think tax affairs are very relevant! Do you think that an unregistered childminder who is being paid cash in hand is entitled to holiday pay, sick leave and all the employment conditions that apply to someone who is paying tax?

kildare.17hmr

implausible wrote: »

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'm not sure how her tax affair are relevant to the discussion. I also think she is entitled to increase her costs (after all, we are still in an inflationary period).

I think tax affairs are very relevant! Do you think that an unregistered childminder who is being paid cash in hand is entitled to holiday pay, sick leave and all the employment conditions that apply to someone who is paying tax?

Not a bloody chance!

Id find a new one for sept and sort it out that its only during school terms they are needed.

Mr. Loverman

implausible wrote: »

I think tax affairs are very relevant! Do you think that an unregistered childminder who is being paid cash in hand is entitled to holiday pay, sick leave and all the employment conditions that apply to someone who is paying tax?

Legally you are correct, but we all know that is not the reason Mommy doesn't want to pay her while she's on holiday, so I consider it irrelevant.

implausible

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Legally you are correct, but we all know that is not the reason Mommy doesn't want to pay her while she's on holiday, so I consider it irrelevant.

Of course, she doesn't want to pay! Would you pay for a service that you would definitely not be using for up to one third of the year? Do you think the OP should be penalised for being a teacher?

Anyone childminding for a teacher knows the score. In fact, as many of them have kids themselves, it suits them to not have the teacher's child during the school holidays.

Mr. Loverman

implausible wrote: »

Would you pay for a service that you would definitely not be using for up to one third of the year?

Like a primary or secondary school teacher?

Just kidding.

I personally would pay the child minder as it's not her fault there is no work for her during those two weeks. To use the teacher example, I agree teachers should be paid during the long holidays as it is not their fault there is no work for them.

implausible

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Like a primary or secondary school teacher?

Just kidding.

I personally would pay the child minder as it's not her fault there is no work for her during those two weeks. To use the teacher example, I agree teachers should be paid during the long holidays as it is not their fault there is no work for them.

It's not her fault, but she entered into the arrangement knowing that the child would not be there for a proportion of the year.

I get paid during the holidays as it is part of the terms and conditions of my contract with the Government. As a taxpayer, I am entitled to sick pay, maternity leave and holiday pay (the length of which happen to be longer than other jobs). Were I operating cash-in-hand and not declaring for tax purposes, I would not expect these benefits. If a childminder wants these benefits, she should be registered as self-employed, paying tax and not claiming social welfare.

looksee

implausible wrote: »

In fairness, as you are a teacher, she should know exactly what to expect! Is this all cash in hand? I ask because I was left dumbstruck by my childminder before the holidays (I'm a teacher too) when she asked for holiday pay. I was annoyed as I have always given her extra money coming up to the holidays and didn't think she would feel the need to ask for it. Secondly, both she and her husband are claiming social welfare and working and as she is not paying tax etc, I felt it was a bit rich asking for holiday pay!

! Maybe you should keep a very low profile on this! What you are saying is that you should be able to take advantage of the fact that they are dole cheats :eek:

Mrs OBumble

implausible wrote: »

As a taxpayer, I am entitled to sick pay, maternity leave and holiday pay (the length of which happen to be longer than other jobs).

Ahh, not quite.

As a worker in Ireland, you are entitled to minimum wage, a minimum number of days annual leave, and unpaid maternity leave. There is no automatic entitlement to sick-leave (ie permission to not attend work 'cos you're sick) or to sick-pay (ie may for time when you're on sick leave).

As a tax-payer, you may be entitled to certain social welfare benefits (job seekers benefit/allowance if you cannot find work, illness benefit if you're sick, maternity benefit if you've given birth).

As an employee is a certain occupation (a highly privliged one in many people's eyes) you get a number of other "perks", which many other employees would love to have.

And as a citizen, you have a right to negotiate over services that you want someone else to provide for you. All in all, it sounds like you need to re-negotiate with your childminder. Good luck with that.

implausible

looksee wrote: »

! Maybe you should keep a very low profile on this! What you are saying is that you should be able to take advantage of the fact that they are dole cheats :eek:

No, what I am saying is that someone in the 'black economy' cannot expect to have the same benefits as someone who is paying tax. It's not like I don't pay her, give her notice when I won't be there, provide food, nappies etc for my child. My issue is demanding holiday pay (which I have already said I do give) and the OP's is paying over the holidays.

As for the low profile - this situation is widespread, especially when it comes to childcare.

implausible

JustMary wrote: »

As a worker in Ireland, you are entitled to minimum wage, a minimum number of days annual leave, and unpaid maternity leave. There is no automatic entitlement to sick-leave (ie permission to not attend work 'cos you're sick) or to sick-pay (ie may for time when you're on sick leave)

Apologies for the wording, I know I have far more than the minimum entitlements as I am lucky enough to have a permanent post. Teaching is great in that respect.

Negotiating is on the cards - I have two now!