Questions about a career in chemical research

35cent

I just finished 3rd year in a Medicinal Chemistry course and I was wondering if I could get some answers for the following queries:

• Is it possible to do research for pharmaceutical company without getting a phD first?
• Can I get a phD through a further education scheme provided by a company?
• How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)
• If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?

Thanks in advance!

Woodward

Is it possible to do research for pharmaceutical company without getting a phD first?
Essentially no. You need at least a masters to be considered

Can I get a phD through a further education scheme provided by a company?
It depends on the company. Some will make a contribution but I doubt any will fully fund you

How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)
There are jobs out there, you just need to work hard to get them

If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?

Depends on the company and the job role

35cent

Woodward wrote: »

Is it possible to do research for pharmaceutical company without getting a phD first?
Essentially no. You need at least a masters to be considered

Can I get a phD through a further education scheme provided by a company?
It depends on the company. Some will make a contribution but I doubt any will fully fund you

How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)
There are jobs out there, you just need to work hard to get them

If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?

Depends on the company and the job role

If the job role is research, would promotions be rare or would they naturally happen based on how long you there. Thanks for the reply!

krd

35cent wrote: »

[*]How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)

Look at Germany. They are booming.

And you should have been researching the job market and sending out applications long before the end of your degree.

The real key to employability (nepotism aside) is work experience. If you were a school leaver about to enter a chemistry degree, I would advise you to start sending out applications for summer work straight away. And then do that every year. Gaps in your CV, employers tend to see you as damaged goods.

[*]If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?

How good are your ass kissing skills?

But hey, if you can't get a job, just come work for me, and make plant food. With your medicinal chemistry skills. and my connections to gardening underworld. Just a few kilos of plant food and we're both set.

35cent

krd wrote: »

Look at Germany. They are booming.

And you should have been researching the job market and sending out applications long before the end of your degree.

The real key to employability (nepotism aside) is work experience. If you were a school leaver about to enter a chemistry degree, I would advise you to start sending out applications for summer work straight away. And then do that every year. Gaps in your CV, employers tend to see you as damaged goods.



How good are your ass kissing skills?

But hey, if you can't get a job, just come work for me, and make plant food. With your medicinal chemistry skills. and my connections to gardening underworld. Just a few kilos of plant food and we're both set.

I've been doing an internship this summer, but I've been doing it in a university. Would that still be helpful in terms of experience?
When you say ass kissing skills, I'm guessing they come by jumping through hoops

krd

35cent wrote: »

I've been doing an internship this summer, but I've been doing it in a university. Would that still be helpful in terms of experience?

Yes. That would count.

I get the feeling, you're incredibly young and naive.

If I was in your position I would try to parlay my degree into a graduate entry to a medical degree - train to be a doctor in 4 years.

When you say ass kissing skills, I'm guessing they come by jumping through hoops

Yes and no. You will soon find out the world is full of arseholes. And they will want you to jump through their hoops like you're a performing dog in the circus. And on the final hoop they'll like an ass kiss.

When you're a doctor, you get paid a lot more money for a lot less crap. You may have to stick your fingers up the odd bum, but it beats having an odd bum stick their fingers up yours - every week of the year.

Oregano_State

35cent wrote: »

I just finished 3rd year in a Medicinal Chemistry course and I was wondering if I could get some answers for the following queries:

• Is it possible to do research for pharmaceutical company without getting a phD first?
• Can I get a phD through a further education scheme provided by a company?
• How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)
• If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?

Thanks in advance!

To answer your questions:


I just graduated (well technically haven't actually had my graduation yet, but...) with BSc in Chemistry from UCC and am now working as a Chemical Analyst for a leading pharmaceutical company in the Dublin Area. I was originally only looking for a summer job, as I had planned to do a masters but I got offered a year's contract so I ran with it.

Also, it is very possible to be involved in research without having a masters or PHD. One of my friends from college is now working as a research chemist with a smallish genetics company in Limerick.

Neither of us had amazing grades either.

Also, there are plenty of jobs. Especially in the Dublin area.

On the promotions side of things, in general from what I've seen it can take 3-6 years of contract work to be made permanent in the place I'm working at. After that, it depends on suitability and hard work, but post-grad qualifications do help. So I'm told anyway.

Pyridine

35cent wrote: »

I just finished 3rd year in a Medicinal Chemistry course and I was wondering if I could get some answers for the following queries:

• Is it possible to do research for pharmaceutical company without getting a phD first?
  
  Technically yes. Everything is possible. The problem is that in the pharma industry in Ireland only a few of the companies will actually do R & D here. Most will have the R & D completed in the states/home country of the company and will use Ireland as a manufacturing hub. Most of the work, therefore, will be manufacturing support. There is always some scope for process developments though.
  
  
• Can I get a phD through a further education scheme provided by a company?
  
  Again the short answer is yes....but probably not in Ireland unless you are going to work for someone who has a collaboration with a pharma company. The competition for these awards is also fierce (in fact for all awards these days) so unless you are on for a high first/gold medal I doubt you'd be considered.
  
  If you want to go away to study for your PhD (and it should be something you consider) then there is a better chance of a pharma funded award. Check out the following wesites:
  
  http://www.organic-chemistry.org/jobs/europe.htm
  
  http://www.nature.com/naturejobs/science/jobs?q=chemistry&job_type[]=PhD+Studentship&all=salary&all=qualifications&all=employment_type&all=job_hours&employer=&where=&commit=Update
  
  Doing a pharma funded placement PhD is probably the best option as you will most likely be working more in industry than in academia and so gaining valuable experience.
  
  
  
  
• How's the job market for chemistry graduates in the UK and Ireland? (I heard it's quite good but I want to make sure it is)
  
  
  Depending on what you want....QC contract roles seem to be plentiful. I've never worked in one but hear the work can be somewhat repetitive. Other roles (again contract) are not so easy to find at the moment (in Ireland anyway) as you will be competing with people with years of experience from companies which have merged/"downsized" due to patents ending.
  
  It is highly unlikely that a new graduate will land a permanent role right away. You'll have to do contract work and then the company can decide if they want to keep you or not. That said it's not beyond the realms of possibility that you would get a permanent job...just unlikely
  
  In the UK (from jobs websites) there seems to be a greater selection of roles but again you'll be competing with people with lots of industrial experience.
  
  
  
• If you work in a company, do promotions come naturally or are promotions really rare and/or difficult to get?
  
  Promotions in pharma are like everywhere else. If you are performing at or above the standard they want you'll do alright. Don't expect to be a team lead after your 1st or 4th year though.
  
  

Thanks in advance!

As for your internship...It depends on what it's in as to whether it will stand to you when looking for a job. If it involves use of the analytical instruments then yes it will. It always looks good to have an array of instrumentation knowledge.

krd

Oregano_State wrote: »

On the promotions side of things, in general from what I've seen it can take 3-6 years of contract work to be made permanent in the place I'm working at. After that, it depends on suitability and hard work, but post-grad qualifications do help. So I'm told anyway.

Did you know, that after Singapore, Ireland has the most liberal employment laws in the world.

The only real permanent positions in Ireland, are if you're working for the state. For everything else consider yourself to be on a permanent temporary contract.

Oregano_State

krd wrote: »

Did you know, that after Singapore, Ireland has the most liberal employment laws in the world.

The only real permanent positions in Ireland, are if you're working for the state. For everything else consider yourself to be on a permanent temporary contract.

On what basis do you hold this opinion?

As far as I know if you hold continuous fulltime employment at a company for 2 years or more, you are entitled to redundancy.

krd

Oregano_State wrote: »

On what basis do you hold this opinion?

As far as I know if you hold continuous fulltime employment at a company for 2 years or more, you are entitled to redundancy.

The redundancy is nothing to jump in the air for joy with. In contrast to how much disruption it can cause in your life, it's a pittance.

Okay, labour laws can be a little excessive sometimes (like the old Irish civil service - it was virtually impossible to fire someone - and before you think it was unions, it wasn't. It's just a job used to be considered a job for life. The Irish civil service up to the mid-90s used only sack about 5 people a year - they had to go before a Dail committee. It was little ludicrous. People could and did, stop going to work for years, and still got paid their full wages)

"liberalisation" of the labour market was something that was successfully pushed in recent decades. To the people - on the basis it would create more employment - by making it easier to hire people (because it's easier to fire them). And corporate profits went through the roof, wages in real terms fell, and now it's very easy to get sacked.

The thing is under less "liberal" labour laws, to sack you, they really need a good reason. Not just because some bollox doesn't like you, because you don't like rugby. And that is the most likely reason you're going to get sacked, or have trouble with promotion. Not the quality of your work. You have to deal with bolloxes. It is just the way of the world.

That's why I would advise anyone who has the opportunity, to get into a medical school. It's a profession that's protected and there's less blackguarding in it.

And another thing, I'll tell yah for nothin'. If you're working with a shower of bolloxes. And they don't like you. They will get you sacked. And they will try to make sure you never get another job.