Was this my fault?

LegacyUser

A few days ago, I went over to a friend's house to watch a film.

This particular friend is also an ex, although we weren't together long, and we broke up almost three years ago. In any case, I know he's still attracted to me, but he knows (or I thought he knew) that I have no interest in him, not least because I have a boyfriend.

Anyways, we were hanging out in his room, and I was finishing some college work, and we were chatting, and flirting harmlessly, as we often do.

We were lying together on his bed, and I stuck out my tongue as his head went past mine, so I ended up licking his nose.
He reacted badly (as I had kind of expected) and licked my face. I wasn't particularly fond of this, so I tried to push him off me, but he pushed my arms down and continued.
So I tried to push him away with my feet/knees, but he pinned them down as well.
He's about twice my weight, so it wasn't much of an effort for him to pin me down.

Anyways, things escalated very rapidly, with me struggling against him the whole time, but pretty soon he was pulling my hair, slapping my face and kissing/licking my collarbones.

Pinned on the bed as I was, I couldn't really fight back, and the power of speech for some reason deserted me, so I couldn't really do much.

He kept going, and tried to take off my t-shirt three or four times, to which I resisted (I had freed my hands at this point). After the last failed attempt, he pulled me to face him and said something along the lines of 'I'll rip it off if I have to'.

I stopped resisting at that point, and let him take off my t-shirt and my bra. He kept going with whatever he was doing (it's a bit fuzzy at this point) but I know that he definitely spanked me, bit my ass, bit my arm and bit my back (I know about the arm and back because I've still got bruises) and started licking and sucking on my nipples. I was resisting again by this point, and still trying to push him off. I managed to get off the bed once or twice, but he pulled me back on and, I think, slapped my face.

Eventually, after about 20-30 minutes, I finally regained the power of speech and asked him to stop. I had to ask two/three times, until he told me to say red if I wanted him to stop. I said red, and he got off me. I was in shock and burst into tears. He offered me my clothes back and asked if I wanted a glass of water or anything.

I told him I didn't want that, to which he responded with 'sorry'. Somewhat astounded that was all he had to say, I repeated it in my most sarcastic tone, and then saw the blood drain from his face. He stammered that he had thought it was consensual, to which I responded that it wasn't.

Anyways, I called a friend and he picked me up, but in the mean time he and I talked. I don't really remember what I said, but I know I cried a lot.

Since then (that was Tuesday), I can't stop thinking about it. I keep bursting into tears and I can't sleep (hence why I'm posting this at 4am).

I can't help feeling like it's my fault, though. After all, I was alone with him in his house. I knew he was still attracted to me and I was flirting with him. I was also the one who started it, technically.
So now I feel like utter crap, and like I cheated on my boyfriend. But I didn't want any of that to happen, and I didn't co-operate at any point.

Things get a bit more complicated because I'm into power play and rough sex, and the guy knows that, because he's an ex.
I feel like I should have said something earlier, or that I should have tried harder to stop him, or I should have made it more explicit that I wasn't interested in him. Or not flirted with him. So this was somehow my fault, and I brought it upon myself.

I know this is a long post, but I don't know what to do from now. I don't know if it was my fault, and I honestly don't know who to talk to about this. I tried going to the welfare officer in my college, and he said he'd mail me details of the counselling service, but he never did. My friends are supportive, but I feel like I'm dumping on them by talking about it over and over again.

but I can't stop thinking about it, and I can't stop feeling guilty. My boyfriend doesn't live near me, so I haven't seen him since and I haven't told him yet. I haven't told my family either, and I honestly don't think I can - it's just so hideous and I feel so stupid for letting it happen to me.

So I'm looking for two main responses - 1) Was this my fault? and
2) What do I do now?

LegacyUser

Hi OP

No not your fault.
IMO He is at fault and I see it clearly as sexual assault.
I am male btw if it helps add context to my opinion.

The advise I would give is talk to people about this, there are telephone counselling services and I think you should speak with them. You do not have to carry this alone.

Wish you well

LegacyUser

I think it was a serious error of judgement on your part to allow yourself to be lying in bed and flirting (however harmlessly it seemed to you) with an ex who you know likes you, all while you're in a relationship. You were sending him the wrong signals just by doing this.

That being said, he shouldn't have done those things without your express permission, even if he knew you were into it or not.

LegacyUser

completely agree with the above post......a massive error of judgement on your part. he was in the wrong but i can't imagine he'd be convicted of anything when you take into account all the details of the story.....there's just too many grey areas......

we'llallhavetea

sorry op but you should have said no from the get go or even at some point in fairness. if that's the type of sex you both would have had while together then I really dont see how this chap would have known not to.

P. Breathnach

That was a really awful experience for you, OP. But from the details you give (especially the use of a "safe word") and your description of his reaction when you told him it was not consensual, it looks to me like a terrible misunderstanding. I don't know if it helps you to say this (but I hope it does): I don't think either of you is to blame.

What do you do? Work on forcing this bad memory into the sort of category in which you would store a no-fault traffic accident: you should not (probably can not) forget it or pretend it never happened; you can not retrospectively remove the distress it caused you; but there is no strong case for judging yourself or him to be guilty - you are both victims.

OP you have every right to feel violated, it must have been a horrific experience. That said, there was clearly no malice in this guy's behaviour. You were panicking and couldn't say anything, that's understandable, but without saying "no" he thought you were pretending to resist. The absence of a "no" doesn't mean "yes", but it's clear to see how this guy misunderstood given your history and licking his nose.

He should have checked with you that you were sure. He didn't. He shouldn't have tried to get with you when you have a boyfriend either. But he did. There's serious cause to be angry with him on a personal level, but he's clearly not a criminal.

Regardless of him not being a criminal, you still have gone through an assault and I think you should seek counselling or other professional help to get you through this. It's the kind of thing that could damage your relationship or future relationships if you don't address it.

As an aside, I don't think it was appropriate of you to be spending time on an ex's bed (who you know is still attracted to you) with him while you have a boyfriend, regardless of your intentions.

Princess Peach

It is absolutely not your fault! You should be able to hang out with a friend and not expect this kind of thing to happen. Some people have a flirty nature, but that is still no excuse for how he reacted. And I can totally understand you losing your voice and not speaking up. Do not blame yourself at all. I see nothing in the scenario that says "you were asking for it" regardless of whether people here think it was appropriate or not. I personally see no harm at all in hanging out with a friend, even a male friend when you have a boyfriend if you have no intentions and aren't being sneaky.

I can't be sure about whether he thought it was an assault or not, but the main point is that you feel you have been assaulted and are upset, which is why you should seek counselling. Get onto the welfare officer again. Are there counselors at your college? A counselor will help you deal with your feelings, and help you to decide if and how you should tell your boyfriend and family.

You must feel terrible, so try not to feel guilty on top of everything else.

Lawliet

Regardless of your history he should not have acted this way;
consent is even more important when it comes to power plays and rough sex, safe words are suppose to be set up in advance, not after a half an hour and not after being told to stop several times. For him to just assume it was alright to pin you down and slap you while you struggled, without any kind of prior agreement is seriously out of line. Him being aware that you find something a turn on in one situation, does not in any way give him the right to do it to you in a completely different situation. Someone needs to sit this guy down and explain consent and boundaries.
Don't feel like you're to blame for his behaviour OP; it's your body, you shouldn't have to spell out that it's not okay to assault it.

gypsy_rose

OP, this was not your fault. Please do not listen to the other people here saying it was. You thought he was your friend and you didn't think that was going to happen, you trusted him and therefore this is not your fault, you thought you were both on the same page. Regardless of you being into power play, he is not your boyfriend anymore and therefore can't just assume he can act like that with you. I know where you're coming from, sometimes it's like you just get overwhelmed or something and it's difficult to speak, that's happened to me too. Can you talk to your boyfriend at all? I think you're in shock and will need a little while to get this out of your system. Don't feel bad about talking to your friends or family, this is a trauma and the best way to heal it is by talking and pouring out your feelings. It sounds horrible, if that happened to me I'd be in a dark place too. Please don't feel like this was your fault or that it was coming your way, you were doing nothing wrong and it's his fault for pushing things so far, all you did was lick his nose! That isn't asking to be held down and touched! If I was you I'd talk to my boyfriend and discuss my feelings, you didn't cheat, you were being physically restrained! And if he thinks it was your fault, I'm not sure if he's a very supportive boyfriend for you. All the best.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the help, and I do realise it's a complicated situation.

errorofjudgement wrote: »

I think it was a serious error of judgement on your part to allow yourself to be lying in bed and flirting (however harmlessly it seemed to you) with an ex who you know likes you, all while you're in a relationship. You were sending him the wrong signals just by doing this.

That being said, he shouldn't have done those things without your express permission, even if he knew you were into it or not.

I can see your point, but he's not just an ex, he's also a friend - we went out for only three/four months, almost three years ago, but used to work together as well. And I wasn't in his bed. I was on his bed. There's a distinct difference, imo. But I do take your point that I knew he was attracted to me. I've told him multiple times that I have no interest in ever cheating on my bf, though, and he of all people would know that, from past experience before we started going out.

dfdskfsdkf wrote: »

completely agree with the above post......a massive error of judgement on your part. he was in the wrong but i can't imagine he'd be convicted of anything when you take into account all the details of the story.....there's just too many grey areas......

I'm not going to try and prosecute, or complain to the gardaí. There's no mens rea there, so I'd never get a conviction and he's generally a really nice guy, so I wouldn't do that to him.

aya startin wha wrote: »

sorry op but you should have said no from the get go or even at some point in fairness. if that's the type of sex you both would have had while together then I really dont see how this chap would have known not to.

I don't think this is particularly fair, as I've already said, I was terrified and unable to speak. I did try. I do appreciate your point, that if I'd said something he would have been far clearer. But for reference, we only rarely had rough sex and never to the extent of what happened the other day.

true-or-false wrote: »

OP you have every right to feel violated, it must have been a horrific experience. That said, there was clearly no malice in this guy's behaviour. You were panicking and couldn't say anything, that's understandable, but without saying "no" he thought you were pretending to resist. The absence of a "no" doesn't mean "yes", but it's clear to see how this guy misunderstood given your history and licking his nose.

He should have checked with you that you were sure. He didn't. He shouldn't have tried to get with you when you have a boyfriend either. But he did. There's serious cause to be angry with him on a personal level, but he's clearly not a criminal.

Regardless of him not being a criminal, you still have gone through an assault and I think you should seek counselling or other professional help to get you through this. It's the kind of thing that could damage your relationship or future relationships if you don't address it.

As an aside, I don't think it was appropriate of you to be spending time on an ex's bed (who you know is still attracted to you) with him while you have a boyfriend, regardless of your intentions.

As I said before, I won't be prosecuting, because it would never in a million years succeed. He's missing the basic components for it, let alone adequate proof.

And regarding your last point, my bf is both aware that I spend time with the ex (who I've mentioned already is a friend) and doesn't mind. I've checked it with him multiple times - he'll always come first, and if he had any issue with it, I would have stopped, because he's far more important to me.

Thanks for all the replies. I can see that the general response is much like my own response - it's complicated. I know it's not really his fault, but I just don't really think it's my fault either.

gypsy_rose

Regardless of who's fault it is, I think it would be better for both of you if you keep away from each other from now on. And I really think you should tell your boyfriend so he understands what's going on in your head and can help you talk it out.

littlefriend

I feel really bad for you OP. For what its worth, I don't think it was your fault. Something vaguely similar happened to me a few years ago - there was a lot of drink involved which made it all the more confusing. I spoke to my gp about it who recommended speak to a professional about it. I didn't take that advice but I really think you should.

Are you considering telling your boyfriend? Is he the type to be supportive or go nuts?

LegacyUser

gypsy_rose wrote: »

Regardless of who's fault it is, I think it would be better for both of you if you keep away from each other from now on. And I really think you should tell your boyfriend so he understands what's going on in your head and can help you talk it out.

I will tell him. But the circumstances have been wrong thus far. The only time I've seen him since then was at a hurling match, and that's not the conversation I wanted to have there - equally, I don't want to tell him over the phone, because unintelligible crying noises don't really make for a great conversation.
And yes, I will most likely be keeping away from him. I have no real reason to see any more, and although I know he's sorry, I'm still pretty afraid of him.

littlefriend wrote: »

I feel really bad for you OP. For what its worth, I don't think it was your fault. Something vaguely similar happened to me a few years ago - there was a lot of drink involved which made it all the more confusing. I spoke to my gp about it who recommended speak to a professional about it. I didn't take that advice but I really think you should.

Are you considering telling your boyfriend? Is he the type to be supportive or go nuts?

I think I've been a little better the more time passes, so if it comes to it, I will go to my GP, or a counsellor, but for the moment I think I'm alright.

I'm going to tell him. I'm entirely not sure how he's going to react - logically, I would think that he'd be supportive, but he could well take the same stance as some posters above - I did put myself in the situation. I don't know.
In any case, I'll tell him when I get a good opportunity - i.e. face to face, no hordes of screaming fans around, and then we'll see what happens from there.

littlefriend

Maybe give some thought to telling him sooner rather than later so as to avoid him taking an issue with you not telling him straight away etc.

LegacyUser

I don't think it is your fault and I don't think there was malicious intent in your friend's actions. But I think you should go to counseling and fast. And also bear in mind that your BF might be very hurt if you will be completely truthful with him. I don't think there is any impropriety sitting on the same bed and watching TV with your friend, even if he is your ex. What I'm going to say is completely separate issue from the assault where you are not guilty of anything. You shouldn't be flirting with someone who has still feelings for you, it's not fair to that person or to your BF. So while your BF might be very understanding about the assault, he could be a lot less understanding about flirting with someone who has feelings for you. IF I was you I would first talk to the counselor, clear your head and then decide how much and what you want to tell your BF. I think you owe the other guy honesty in explaining it was not intended rape, although I think what he did was inappropriate and he could do with some counseling himself. But on the other had I don't know how much of a relationship will there be left if you tell your BF about flirting.

[-0-]

There's two issues here, and I'll start with the worst of the two:

1. His behaviour was not acceptable for a variety of reasons. It wasn't consensual and you're seeing someone.

2. You led him on.

Regardless of No. 2, he should have known better and so should you. I think it is down right inappropriate for you to be in his bedroom to begin with. If my OH was in an ex's bedroom I would flip - not because I don't trust her but because of the message that it sends to the guy and what it can lead to. The turn of events here is the point I'm trying to make. You licked him, and were flirting with him... that's unacceptable behaviour as well. I think it would be very hurtful for your OH if he could see what was going on to kick this all off.

In saying all that, I'm dreadfully sorry what happened to you and I'm really thankful it didn't go further.

All you can do is learn from it. Don't flirt with other men, especially if you have a history, and stay out of their bedrooms.

fungun

Agree totally with above post.

I think your bf's reaction will depend on how honest you actually have been with him. You say he knows you spend time with your ex. My partner spends time with her ex now and again. Would I mind if it was more time than it is? No. Would I mind if I knew he was into her still? A little. Would I mind if she was lying on his bed with him, flirting and doing things like licking his nose? Yes.

Im sure your bf will be supportive if he knew how you guys were together - but if he gets this info along with the realisation that you were in this guys bedroom and had a flirty relationship with him and he didnt know about it, Id be prepared for some anger on his part also.

skooterblue2

OP,
I sympathise with your situation.

How would you feel if your boy friend was hanging out with with his ex if she still had a bit of thing for him?
Do you think it would be appropriate for him to be lying on her bed with her?
How would you feel if he licked her nose in that position?

"Two men and two men only will enter my bedchamber. My husband and the doctor." Becky Sharp, Vanity Fair. Maybe its a Victorian novel but you crossed an awful lot of boundaries. "No means NO!" but you left an awful lot of gates open on the farm. Which allows thing being open to interpretation...

You should learn from this, that male friends should be entertained in the kitchen or living room. I think you should meet him once draw the lines, that it was in appropriate what happened, keep you distance to allow for a cooling off period and learn from your experience.

snafuk35

WhatNow? wrote: »

A few days ago, I went over to a friend's house to watch a film.

This particular friend is also an ex, although we weren't together long, and we broke up almost three years ago. In any case, I know he's still attracted to me, but he knows (or I thought he knew) that I have no interest in him, not least because I have a boyfriend.

Anyways, we were hanging out in his room, and I was finishing some college work, and we were chatting, and flirting harmlessly, as we often do.

We were lying together on his bed, and I stuck out my tongue as his head went past mine, so I ended up licking his nose.
He reacted badly (as I had kind of expected) and licked my face. I wasn't particularly fond of this, so I tried to push him off me, but he pushed my arms down and continued.
So I tried to push him away with my feet/knees, but he pinned them down as well.
He's about twice my weight, so it wasn't much of an effort for him to pin me down.

Anyways, things escalated very rapidly, with me struggling against him the whole time, but pretty soon he was pulling my hair, slapping my face and kissing/licking my collarbones.

Pinned on the bed as I was, I couldn't really fight back, and the power of speech for some reason deserted me, so I couldn't really do much.

He kept going, and tried to take off my t-shirt three or four times, to which I resisted (I had freed my hands at this point). After the last failed attempt, he pulled me to face him and said something along the lines of 'I'll rip it off if I have to'.

I stopped resisting at that point, and let him take off my t-shirt and my bra. He kept going with whatever he was doing (it's a bit fuzzy at this point) but I know that he definitely spanked me, bit my ass, bit my arm and bit my back (I know about the arm and back because I've still got bruises) and started licking and sucking on my nipples. I was resisting again by this point, and still trying to push him off. I managed to get off the bed once or twice, but he pulled me back on and, I think, slapped my face.

Eventually, after about 20-30 minutes, I finally regained the power of speech and asked him to stop. I had to ask two/three times, until he told me to say red if I wanted him to stop. I said red, and he got off me. I was in shock and burst into tears. He offered me my clothes back and asked if I wanted a glass of water or anything.

I told him I didn't want that, to which he responded with 'sorry'. Somewhat astounded that was all he had to say, I repeated it in my most sarcastic tone, and then saw the blood drain from his face. He stammered that he had thought it was consensual, to which I responded that it wasn't.

Anyways, I called a friend and he picked me up, but in the mean time he and I talked. I don't really remember what I said, but I know I cried a lot.

Since then (that was Tuesday), I can't stop thinking about it. I keep bursting into tears and I can't sleep (hence why I'm posting this at 4am).

I can't help feeling like it's my fault, though. After all, I was alone with him in his house. I knew he was still attracted to me and I was flirting with him. I was also the one who started it, technically.
So now I feel like utter crap, and like I cheated on my boyfriend. But I didn't want any of that to happen, and I didn't co-operate at any point.

Things get a bit more complicated because I'm into power play and rough sex, and the guy knows that, because he's an ex.
I feel like I should have said something earlier, or that I should have tried harder to stop him, or I should have made it more explicit that I wasn't interested in him. Or not flirted with him. So this was somehow my fault, and I brought it upon myself.

I know this is a long post, but I don't know what to do from now. I don't know if it was my fault, and I honestly don't know who to talk to about this. I tried going to the welfare officer in my college, and he said he'd mail me details of the counselling service, but he never did. My friends are supportive, but I feel like I'm dumping on them by talking about it over and over again.

but I can't stop thinking about it, and I can't stop feeling guilty. My boyfriend doesn't live near me, so I haven't seen him since and I haven't told him yet. I haven't told my family either, and I honestly don't think I can - it's just so hideous and I feel so stupid for letting it happen to me.

So I'm looking for two main responses - 1) Was this my fault? and
2) What do I do now?

He sexually assaulted you and tried to rape you. How could that be your fault? Do you think anyone has the right to force themselves on you?
Other women could be attacked by this creep.
Go to the Gardaí right away and get this scumbag locked up.

gypsy_rose

snafuk35 wrote: »

He sexually assaulted you and tried to rape you. How could that be your fault? Do you think anyone has the right to force themselves on you?
Other women could be attacked by this creep.
Go to the Gardaí right away and get this scumbag locked up.

I agree. While if he just tried to kiss you or something that would be your fault for leading him on and being in his bedroom, but nobody asks for what you got, he was aggressive and went way too far. Nobody just does that normally, I would stay well away from him, he sounds like he's got a screw loose.

we'llallhavetea

I actually think the op should also tell the friend that she's not going to press charges or anything. He must be sick with worry about the whole thing, he clearly did not know she didn't want him to continue on, why would he? She had been flirting with him and said absolutely nothing to stop him? He is NOT a rapist IMO, and I think she owes him an update on where he stands.

puffishoes

Princess Peach wrote: »

It is absolutely not your fault! You should be able to hang out with a friend and not expect this kind of thing to happen. Some people have a flirty nature, but that is still no excuse for how he reacted. And I can totally understand you losing your voice and not speaking up. Do not blame yourself at all. I see nothing in the scenario that says "you were asking for it" regardless of whether people here think it was appropriate or not. I personally see no harm at all in hanging out with a friend, even a male friend when you have a boyfriend if you have no intentions and aren't being sneaky.

I can't be sure about whether he thought it was an assault or not, but the main point is that you feel you have been assaulted and are upset, which is why you should seek counselling. Get onto the welfare officer again. Are there counselors at your college? A counselor will help you deal with your feelings, and help you to decide if and how you should tell your boyfriend and family.

You must feel terrible, so try not to feel guilty on top of everything else.

I think once you start licking someone's face you're gone beyond flirting tbh.

LegacyUser

skooterblue2 wrote: »

OP,
I sympathise with your situation.

How would you feel if your boy friend was hanging out with with his ex if she still had a bit of thing for him?
Do you think it would be appropriate for him to be lying on her bed with her?
How would you feel if he licked her nose in that position?

"Two men and two men only will enter my bedchamber. My husband and the doctor." Becky Sharp, Vanity Fair. Maybe its a Victorian novel but you crossed an awful lot of boundaries. "No means NO!" but you left an awful lot of gates open on the farm. Which allows thing being open to interpretation...

You should learn from this, that male friends should be entertained in the kitchen or living room. I think you should meet him once draw the lines, that it was in appropriate what happened, keep you distance to allow for a cooling off period and learn from your experience.

My boyfriend is aware that I hang out with this guy. He's also aware that the guy still has a thing for me.
It wasn't my bedchamber, to use your words. It was his. Because we were using his dvd player, which is in his room. That's why I was in his room.

I did cross some boundaries. I should have moved away instead of sticking my tongue out at him. That ended up badly. Clearly.

snafuk35 wrote: »

He sexually assaulted you and tried to rape you. How could that be your fault? Do you think anyone has the right to force themselves on you?
Other women could be attacked by this creep.
Go to the Gardaí right away and get this scumbag locked up.

I think you've missed the point that he thought the entire time that I was consenting. Besides, he feels awful about it, and I'd be incredibly surprised if he did it to anyone ever again.

aya startin wha wrote: »

I actually think the op should also tell the friend that she's not going to press charges or anything. He must be sick with worry about the whole thing, he clearly did not know she didn't want him to continue on, why would he? She had been flirting with him and said absolutely nothing to stop him? He is NOT a rapist IMO, and I think she owes him an update on where he stands.

I have told him that I won't be pressing charges. Charges wouldn't succeed anyway. Lack of mens rea.

puffishoes wrote: »

I think once you start licking someone's face you're gone beyond flirting tbh.

I said I stuck my tongue out. I didn't lick him deliberately.
Why would I do that?

Big Bag of Chips

I'm not going to comment on your friend, because that has all been done..

But I will comment on your boyfriend and your relationship. Hanging out with a friend of the opposite sex (ex or not, is irrelevant) while going out with someone is not wrong.

But hanging out with someone you know harbours feelings for you, flirting with them and putting yourself in a position on a bed where you are close enough to accidentally lick his nose is extremely inappropriate and disrespectful to your bf.

I'm guessing you are quite young, and as you grow up and your relationships mature you will know better what is or isn't fair on your partner.

I think you would feel quite threatened and insecure if you knew your boyfriend was carrying on like that with one of his friends (who he knew fancied him). And you would hope he respected you (and her actually) enough to lay a clear boundary down for her.

I'm guessing you wouldn't carry on like that in front of your bf, because you know it would hurt him... So you shouldn't do it just because he can't see you.

It's all about respect.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on your friend, because that has all been done..

But I will comment on your boyfriend and your relationship. Hanging out with a friend of the opposite sex (ex or not, is irrelevant) while going out with someone is not wrong.

But hanging out with someone you know harbours feelings for you, flirting with them and putting yourself in a position on a bed where you are close enough to accidentally lick his nose is extremely inappropriate and disrespectful to your bf.

I'm guessing you are quite young, and as you grow up and your relationships mature you will know better what is or isn't fair on your partner.

I think you would feel quite threatened and insecure if you knew your boyfriend was carrying on like that with one of his friends (who he knew fancied him). And you would hope he respected you enough to lay a clear boundary down for her.

I'm guessing you wouldn't carry on like that in front of your bf, because you know it would hurt him... So you shouldn't do it just because he can't see you.

It's all about respect.

I appreciate your comments, but my boyfriend actually does know what I do, and I DID lay clear boundaries. At least, I thought I had. I was under the impression that the ex was aware that I would never have any sexual interest in him. Clearly I was wrong, as last week's experience showed.
Shallow and all as it makes me sound (and I admit that it is shallow) I just got kicks out of the attention. It was an ego-boost. He (the ex) was aware of that, but evidently he thought there was something more there. My boyfriend is aware of the fact that I only do it for an ego boost. I am aware that I'm incredibly shallow and shouldn't need to get ego boosts from an ex. But I used him shamelessly for ego boosts. And he knew that.

In any case, if this thread is going in the direction of commenting on my relationship with my boyfriend, would it be possible to lock it, please, mods? I've gotten the response I was looking for to the questions I asked, so it's an issue resolved.

Thank you to everyone who responded, whatever your point of view. I really do appreciate it.

gypsy_rose

aya startin wha wrote: »

I actually think the op should also tell the friend that she's not going to press charges or anything. He must be sick with worry about the whole thing, he clearly did not know she didn't want him to continue on, why would he? She had been flirting with him and said absolutely nothing to stop him? He is NOT a rapist IMO, and I think she owes him an update on where he stands.

I say let him sweat, might make him learn a lesson about boundaries.

Zen65

snafuk35 wrote: »

He sexually assaulted you and tried to rape you. How could that be your fault? Do you think anyone has the right to force themselves on you?

This is just too simplistic a determination. No jury in the world would convict him of sexual assault in this case. His actions were certainly foolish, but it does appear that he believed that the OP was initiating something when she licked his face.

As others have said, this is a complicated situation. There was a relationship, and a history (albeit briefly) of consensual "rough sex". I fully understand that OP was too frightened to say "stop" at the outset, but this just makes the situation more confusing for the guy. If the guy had posted here on Boards.ie it would look something along the following lines:

Did I get the signals wrong?

I'm freaking out. A few days ago I was with my ex-girlfriend in my bedroom. We were hanging out as we often do. She has a boyfriend and says she's not interested in restarting a relationship with me, but she does know I have feelings for her and she still hangs out with me and flirts a lot.

Anyway we were lying on the bed together and as my face passed close to hers she stuck out her tongue and licked my nose. She may have been trying to lick my cheek, I can't be sure. I responded immediately by licking back, and although she acted a bit like she didn't like it she didn't ask me to stop. It gets a bit fuzzy then, but I recall I was licking and biting her sensually as I used to do when we were together. I know she liked that sort of thing in the past. A few times she tried to push me away, but never with any conviction and I thought it was part of the role-playing. Even when she got off the bed she never told me to stop, and she allowed me to "drag" her back onto the bed and continue.

Suddenly she asks me to stop. I checked if she really wanted me to stop by using a safeword, and she confirmed that she did. I was surprised, and I immediately tried to apologise and hand her back her clothes I had removed during what I had thought was "the game". Then she began crying and I was completely stumped. I cannot believe I totally misunderstood the situation, as it was so much like the way things used to be between us in the past.

Now I'm totally afraid that she's going to say I assaulted her. I don't know what to do; It's not in my nature to do that to a girl but I was so sure that she was inviting me to do something. Maybe looking back on it that's just because I wanted to believe it. I feel such an idiot.

Of course I've taken liberties in putting that story together, but I imagine that many people would respond by saying that it's not surprising that the guy misunderstood the signals he was getting from the OP. I expect also that there would be plenty of people telling him that he had been very foolish to overlook the fact that she had a boyfriend and had previously told him she was not interested in a relationship with him.

My point is that, as others have said, this is not a simple case of boy-assaults-girl. There was a prior relationship, which (so far as we know) ended amicably, and OP knew he continued to have feelings for her. The lines of communication were most unclear, and both parties contributed to that misunderstanding. More than 70% of communication between people is non-verbal, so a lick on the nose can very easily be construed as having an altogether different meaning to the lickee than it does to the licker. Perhaps he thought this was the start of a FWB phase in the relationship? On the face of it he seems to be either a bit clueless, or a complete chancer. To equate him to being a sex fiend is a stretch too far IMHO.

My advice, OP, for what it's worth is that you should talk to this guy and be clear about how you feel. Let him know that you cannot hang out with him anymore because the friendship boundaries aren't being respected. After that, end all contact with him, because the friendship is finished now.

I do agree with the other posters who suggested that you may want to talk to a counsellor before discussing this with your boyfriend. You need to be clear in your own mind that your actions in this situation were naive but not complicit. There's a world of difference. Using terms like "fault" or "blame" is not appropriate in the situation, as you were not deliberately leading the guy on. I suggest that you chalk this up as a learning experience; hanging with male friends is perfectly normal to do, but giving ambiguous signals to others is unwise, especially if you are alone.

Be at peace,

Z

Zen65

gypsy_rose wrote: »

I say let him sweat, might make him learn a lesson about boundaries.

Boundaries were crossed from both sides. Good fences make good neighbours, and I'd suggest that the boundaries should be reinforced between OP and this guy by putting distance between them.

Be at peace,

Z

Princess Peach

puffishoes wrote: »

Princess Peach wrote: »

It is absolutely not your fault! You should be able to hang out with a friend and not expect this kind of thing to happen. Some people have a flirty nature, but that is still no excuse for how he reacted. And I can totally understand you losing your voice and not speaking up. Do not blame yourself at all. I see nothing in the scenario that says "you were asking for it" regardless of whether people here think it was appropriate or not. I personally see no harm at all in hanging out with a friend, even a male friend when you have a boyfriend if you have no intentions and aren't being sneaky.

I can't be sure about whether he thought it was an assault or not, but the main point is that you feel you have been assaulted and are upset, which is why you should seek counselling. Get onto the welfare officer again. Are there counselors at your college? A counselor will help you deal with your feelings, and help you to decide if and how you should tell your boyfriend and family.

You must feel terrible, so try not to feel guilty on top of everything else.

I think once you start licking someone's face you're gone beyond flirting tbh.

The op actually says that she stuck her tongue out when he moved his face and it was not intentional.

And even if she did, that does not warrant him to begin a sex act.

If she didn't say she wanted sex or recipocate the act, it was assault. It shouldn't matter what situation this girl has put herself in, the fact was in no way did she ask for this. So no it is not her fault.

The OP has not asked for advice on whether she should have hanging out with an ex, she has asked about this assault that has taken place and how she should deal with it.

we'llallhavetea

gypsy_rose wrote: »

I say let him sweat, might make him learn a lesson about boundaries.

But he didn't cross any boundaries, the op went along with it, she clearly behaved in the same manner as previous sexual encounters with this man.
I'm not saying the op is to blame, I think that if it was an unpleasant experience then fair enough, but it's certainly not the mans fault that the op didn't enjoy it, the man is not a mind reader.

gypsy_rose

aya startin wha wrote: »

But he didn't cross any boundaries, the op went along with it, she clearly behaved in the same manner as previous sexual encounters with this man.
I'm not saying the op is to blame, I think that if it was an unpleasant experience then fair enough, but it's certainly not the mans fault that the op didn't enjoy it, the man is not a mind reader.

Yes but it might teach him to think twice next time. And most people do not act like that with people they're not in a relationship with, he needs to learn that. How can you say he didn't cross any boundaries? That's insane, he crossed every boundary possible.

skooterblue2

"Accident never happen they are caused."

The OP clearly has has no concept of boundaries. She wonders how this situation happened. As she has a boyfriend she should not have been flirting with another guy. What was she doing in his bedroom on his bed. Does she understands the concept of "Personal Space"?

She removed these barriers and safety catches. It is a combination of all these that led to this. If one or more of these things never happened there would be no reason for this post.

I have to admit I would be "(grudgingly) fine" with my GF meeting an ex that had a crush on her. But being in his bedroom, sharing a bed and being in that close proximity would raise big red flags. The Op has no sense of responsibly here.

we'llallhavetea

gypsy_rose wrote: »

Yes but it might teach him to think twice next time. And most people do not act like that with people they're not in a relationship with, he needs to learn that. How can you say he didn't cross any boundaries? That's insane, he crossed every boundary possible.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

"Accident never happen they are caused."

The OP clearly has has no concept of boundaries. She wonders how this situation happened. As she has a boyfriend she should not have been flirting with another guy. What was she doing in his bedroom on his bed. Does she understands the concept of "Personal Space"?

She removed these barriers and safety catches. It is a combination of all these that led to this. If one or more of these things never happened there would be no reason for this post.

I have to admit I would be "(grudgingly) fine" with my GF meeting an ex that had a crush on her. But being in his bedroom, sharing a bed and being in that close proximity would raise big red flags. The Op has no sense of responsibly here.

Pretty much what scooterblue said.

Princess Peach

The OP is getting victim blamed a lot here. I can't imagine how she feels reading this

People say she acted inappropriately, does that make it her fault? You could ask the same of victims of assault who flirted with guys, who were drunk, who wore a short skirt.

Being in a guys bedroom does not give him the right to force himself on her. I can't see anything in the OPs posts that send a clear signal to him that she wanted this. Mixed signals do not entitle this man's behaviour.

And she feels she has been assaulted and came here for advice on how she can deal with that. Not to be judged.

OP I really hope you seek counselling from a professional, who will know how to objectively talk to you about this experience.

skooterblue2

Princess Peach wrote: »

People say she acted inappropriately, does that make it her fault? You could ask the same of victims of assault who flirted with guys, who were drunk, who wore a short skirt.

Being in a guys bedroom does not give him the right to force himself on her. I can't see anything in the OPs posts that send a clear signal to him that she wanted this. Mixed signals do not entitle this man's behaviour.

And she feels she has been assaulted and came here for advice on how she can deal with that. Not to be judged.

OP I really hope you seek counselling from a professional, who will know how to objectively talk to you about this experience.

So many issues there...where to begin. It not the fact that she flirted with him or was up in his bedroom, lay down beside him and licked his face, and had a history of rough sex with the guy, who still fancied her. Its the combination of all those that gave the green light. I am not into rough sex or other guys girls but all those factors would green light it for me. If she licked his face in a cafe it would just be plain weird or if they were watching a film in the living room that would be fine, but when you put them all together .....

I personally think they both need counselling after this

Taltos

WhatNow? wrote: »

In any case, if this thread is going in the direction of commenting on my relationship with my boyfriend, would it be possible to lock it, please, mods? I've gotten the response I was looking for to the questions I asked, so it's an issue resolved.

Per the OP's request.