Enough is Enough

Black Suir

If you live in Waterford or Tipperary it seems that the thing to do in the past year and a half or so is to give the people living in the area a real hard kick in the goolees. You could be forgiven that the government seem to think that we will take it and roll over.

How many places have closed in the last year and a half. Talk Talk in Waterford, there is supposed to be cuts coming at GSK in Dungarvan, a number of other small and larger premises in the town have also closed, (MJ Currans, Byrnes World of Wonder, Shops in the main streets of the town and in the shopping centre) in Clonmel St Michael's Unit in South Tipp Gerneral Hospital Closed. The Army Barracks in the Town has closed and those attached to the barracks has been transfered to Limerick (Michael Noonan) and Kilkenny (Big Phil).

Earlier this week we were told that TSB are to close a branch of its business in Waterford City, today we are told that AIB are to close branches at Tallow, Kilmac, and is it Ferrybank. The number of Garda Headquarters is reported to be cut from three to maybe 1 or 2 in the county, the number of Rural Garda Stations is supposed to be Cut. The Ambulance in Youghal which serves areas od West Waterford is supposed to be going and replaced by a first responce car, the Post Office in Kill has closed and others are under threat. A number of schools could be closed as well.

Well enough has to be enough. When are our TD's going to stand up and actually represent us, and tell their friends around the cabinet people that the people of Waterford, South Tipperary and parts of East Cork have had enough and that they are going to vote against any further cuts which will effect the people of the area.

It could be a long wait however for this to happen however as Turkeys (and some might say I am kind using that word) will never vote for Christmas.
And now they want to penalise the people of the area by cutting what money they give to the County and City Councils in the area because the majority of the people, correctly took a stance against unjust moves that they tried to bring in.

eirator

Just heard that Moloneys Hardware in Dungarvan are closing today.

Black Suir

eirator wrote: »

Just heard that Moloneys Hardware in Dungarvan are closing today.

HAve noticed that they are closed with a week or more. More bad news for Dungarvan and the area which it serves. Its not that all along ago that Michal Curran's closed. Is there ever going to be any good news relating to jobs in West Waterford. Would be great if our so called leaders would get their fingers out and do something for the area. No doubt, when the local and next general election comes around, they will be all out bull sh!tting us, telling us all that they have done for us, and some will be foolish enough to believe it and send them back in to do the job that they are currently not doing for us.

ShatterResistant

Black Suir wrote: »

If you live in Waterford or Tipperary it seems that the thing to do in the past year and a half or so is to give the people living in the area a real hard kick in the goolees. You could be forgiven that the government seem to think that we will take it and roll over.


How many places have closed in the last year and a half. Talk Talk in Waterford, there is supposed to be cuts coming at GSK in Dungarvan, a number of other small and larger premises in the town have also closed, (MJ Currans, Byrnes World of Wonder, Shops in the main streets of the town and in the shopping centre) in Clonmel St Michael's Unit in South Tipp Gerneral Hospital Closed. The Army Barracks in the Town has closed and those attached to the barracks has been transfered to Limerick (Michael Noonan) and Kilkenny (Big Phil).

Talk Talk cited they were closing because more of their users are going online for assistance and just 80 of the jobs remaining were being moved to the UK which is more competitive than Ireland.

As for MJ Currans while I really regret to see closing, is anyone really suprised, even in the good times three hardware stores was a lot for our town, never mind now there is only a fraction of the Construction related projects than 5 years ago.

Earlier this week we were told that TSB are to close a branch of its business in Waterford City, today we are told that AIB are to close branches at Tallow, Kilmac, and is it Ferrybank. The number of Garda Headquarters is reported to be cut from three to maybe 1 or 2 in the county, the number of Rural Garda Stations is supposed to be Cut. The Ambulance in Youghal which serves areas od West Waterford is supposed to be going and replaced by a first responce car, the Post Office in Kill has closed and others are under threat. A number of schools could be closed as well.

I can't speak for the city, but from speaking to people I know from the area they have said that it's only common sense to close the banks, you can't keep them open if the business isn't there. You'd say one thing if they had to come all the way to Dungarvan but Lismore also has a branch. Many ruaral garda stations are already open so rarely, closing them won't have a massive impact particularly when you look at the bigger picture of the garda budget. I agree that Youghal should have retained their ambulance and Kill their Post office as both are very important in their respective communities.

Well enough has to be enough. When are our TD's going to stand up and actually represent us, and tell their friends around the cabinet people that the people of Waterford, South Tipperary and parts of East Cork have had enough and that they are going to vote against any further cuts which will effect the people of the area.

Have you contacted your local TD's? I find letter writing/emails as the best method.

It could be a long wait however for this to happen however as Turkeys (and some might say I am kind using that word) will never vote for Christmas.
And now they want to penalise the people of the area by cutting what money they give to the County and City Councils in the area because the majority of the people, correctly took a stance against unjust moves that they tried to bring in.

I think I remember reading in The Leader that a majority of people in Waterford have paid the household charge even if only just.

As for penalising councils, we have a deficit of about €15 billion and general government debt of €139.1 billion. We are spending more money than we are taking in, therefore you must raise revenue or cut expenditure. Councils take up a substantial portion of money in the budget and can absorb a certain amount of cuts. One relatively fair way of doing this is by linking each persons contribution to their area i.e. if people in Kerry paid up 100% but the people of Clare 30% should each get an equivalent cut in their councils budget? Each councils budget was already being reduced, now its just on a fairer scale. While the introduction of the charge was poor, the principle should stand: each household should contribute to their local area rather from the exchequer.


On the whole is anyone suprised? We are spending a lot more than we are taking in. Fact. Tough decisions must be made but I am suprised and pleased by how well we have been managing given the state of things. This country became uncompetitive through unions, banks were wreckless, some people were greedy (which includes rich and ordinary people) and now many more must carry it, certain politicians misled us and a thousand other factors contributed to where we are. We are where we are and can onkly grit our teeth and bear it. Everyone loves having a go at the politicians and while I would agree with a lot of cuts expenses wise we still face the huge deficit.


But then thats just me

Black Suir

hooli07 wrote: »

As for MJ Currans while I really regret to see closing, is anyone really suprised, even in the good times three hardware stores was a lot for our town, never mind now there is only a fraction of the Construction related projects than 5 years ago.

While you are correct in the last few words that you have said above, I cannot agree with the rest of what you have to say. Tom Curran's, MJ Curran's and Maloneys are in Dungarvan with years, even when times were very tough up to the time of the celtic tigers arival and they were able to survive and able to employ people not just from the town but also from the areas around it. The problem is (and it might sound harsh) that these companies, just like many others when money was started to be thrown around the place, they grabbed it and tried to become bigger than they actually could get. They should have known that you can only blow a baloon so far before it will burst. Maybe, if the companies that have gone, had not got gready, stayed where they were in the town and if they wanted to do anything with the money that was doing the rounds, if they had done up the shops they were in, make them look a little more modern than they were when they left, they might still be trading in the town now.

foxcoverteddy

Dungarvan is sort of my second home, the town is as important to me as Kilkenny, one understands the frustration of the people.
Why do we have council people taking money for educational courses, and we do not need the number of TD's, and Kenny cost far more than he is worth.
It is the top that needs pruning, the whole system of government stinks.
It is all round not just Waterford and County, and it is time people demanded a change

ShatterResistant

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Dungarvan is sort of my second home, the town is as important to me as Kilkenny, one understands the frustration of the people.
Why do we have council people taking money for educational courses, and we do not need the number of TD's, and Kenny cost far more than he is worth.
It is the top that needs pruning, the whole system of government stinks.
It is all round not just Waterford and County, and it is time people demanded a change

RE: Educational Courses; As in councillors or directors of serices etc.?

The number of TD's is being cut by 8 for the next Dáil term. It can't be reduced by any more because the constitution states there must be at least 1 TD per 30,000 head of population. Some parties had promised reducing it by more but the results of the census showed the populatuion had increased much faster than projected from the last census. I believe the 1/30,000 rule is being examined at the upcoming constitutional convwention.

TD's salaries etc. are tied to other civil servants which are protected under the Croke Park agreement. Often it costs a fortune to get rid of certain top level staff rather than letting them naturally leave the system (not that I agree with it..). RE: Advisors, you have to consider though if you pay in peanuts you'll get monkeys, no pun intended! Still the ministers/TD's expenses/entitlements are very high and need to be greatly reduced or eliminated all together

As for local government, the department of local government is currently in the process of overhauling councils, i.e. town councils will be abolished, waterford county and city councils will be merged (but again the directors of services at the top are protected under CP) reducing councillors and pooling resources. They are also trying to devolve power to councillors from the county manager/town clerk and other non elected bodies.
The flip side of all of this is people are less represented and if you think its hard to get a say in now, try i in five years with the way people are going.


I believe people did demand change on the 25/2/2011 and while it is taking time, it is in progress, but of course you can still understand the frustration. Whether we like it or not this is the system we live in and have to work with, if you or anyone else has any suggestions for a better system I would be genuinely interested to hear it.

As Winston Churchill once said: "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Glad you like Dungarvan tis' a ould nice town

foxcoverteddy

I reckon that is about as good a reply as anyone could expect, brilliant and thank you so much, your writing does you proud.
Yes Dungarvan is a delight, love it.

Black Suir

hooli07 wrote: »

RE: Educational Courses; As in councillors or directors of serices etc.?

The number of TD's is being cut by 8 for the next Dáil term. It can't be reduced by any more because the constitution states there must be at least 1 TD per 30,000 head of population. Some parties had promised reducing it by more but the results of the census showed the populatuion had increased much faster than projected from the last census. I believe the 1/30,000 rule is being examined at the upcoming constitutional convwention.

TD's salaries etc. are tied to other civil servants which are protected under the Croke Park agreement. Often it costs a fortune to get rid of certain top level staff rather than letting them naturally leave the system (not that I agree with it..). RE: Advisors, you have to consider though if you pay in peanuts you'll get monkeys, no pun intended! Still the ministers/TD's expenses/entitlements are very high and need to be greatly reduced or eliminated all together

As for local government, the department of local government is currently in the process of overhauling councils, i.e. town councils will be abolished, waterford county and city councils will be merged (but again the directors of services at the top are protected under CP) reducing councillors and pooling resources. They are also trying to devolve power to councillors from the county manager/town clerk and other non elected bodies.
The flip side of all of this is people are less represented and if you think its hard to get a say in now, try i in five years with the way people are going.


I believe people did demand change on the 25/2/2011 and while it is taking time, it is in progress, but of course you can still understand the frustration. Whether we like it or not this is the system we live in and have to work with, if you or anyone else has any suggestions for a better system I would be genuinely interested to hear it.

As Winston Churchill once said: "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Glad you like Dungarvan tis' a ould nice town

Hasnt Enda done well in cutting the numbers by 8. I hope he is one that will go, and if he was to bring Eamon Gilmore and Phil Hogan with him there wont be too many tears shed. I wont anyway. I know it wont happen as the Government are clever in picking the constituencys that will loose seats, like Tipperary who will drop from 6 to 5. They know doing this that Lowry, McGrath and Healy all wont get elected in a five seat constituency, but if things were to remain the way they are, all 3 have a good chance of getting elected. As for your comment the numbers cant be cut any more, of course it can. We suppose to have children's referendum sometime this year or early next year. The Government can easily print another paper asking us if we think that the 1 td to 30,000 voters should be changed. I bet if it was, it would be passed, but Enda and Co dont have the guts to do this because they know that at the next election they are going to see their numbers cut (FG and Lab), because of the way they have done things in the last year and a half and all the lies they have told us. The Shinners will be delighted when this happens as they will be the ones that will gain most.

ShatterResistant

Black Suir wrote: »

Hasnt Enda done well in cutting the numbers by 8. I hope he is one that will go, and if he was to bring Eamon Gilmore and Phil Hogan with him there wont be too many tears shed. I wont anyway. I know it wont happen as the Government are clever in picking the constituencys that will loose seats, like Tipperary who will drop from 6 to 5. They know doing this that Lowry, McGrath and Healy all wont get elected in a five seat constituency, but if things were to remain the way they are, all 3 have a good chance of getting elected. As for your comment the numbers cant be cut any more, of course it can. We suppose to have children's referendum sometime this year or early next year. The Government can easily print another paper asking us if we think that the 1 td to 30,000 voters should be changed. I bet if it was, it would be passed, but Enda and Co dont have the guts to do this because they know that at the next election they are going to see their numbers cut (FG and Lab), because of the way they have done things in the last year and a half and all the lies they have told us. The Shinners will be delighted when this happens as they will be the ones that will gain most.

As it stands now, Enda Kenny will lose a seat in his constituency, in which Fine Gael currently have four TD's out of five so FG will almost certainly lose out actually!

Tipperary was previously split into two, three-seat constituencies (just to clarify it isn't possible to have a six-seater). The Constituency Commission report are obliged to keep county and constituency borders in line where possible. They were now able to restore the breach of the Waterford County border, as well as give a piece of North Tipp into the new Offaly constituency. In line with the merging of North and South Tipp County Councils and the measures outlined above 90% of Tipperary are now within one council and one constituency, which makes much more sense in my eyes. Another disadvantage for the government is the former Dublin South. Previously a five seater, it is now a three seater meaning out of the three Fine Gael TD's who took the last three seats (including Alan Shatter who came last with only 10.6% of the vote) will have to fight it out in completely different constituencies.

The cost of a referendum is roughly €20-25 milllion so it is very important to get it right e.g. due to all the media attention around the Presidential election last October, the refernedum on empowering Dáil to investigate matters of national importance and make reports based on that, was rejected. In my opinion this was due to the weak wording of the proposal on the governments part and the lack of media coverage/debate it received. This is the point of the Constitutional Convention, which will consist of 33 politicians/interest groups and 66 randomly selected citizens. They will discuss how they think the dail should operate etc. and making recommendations, the onus is then on the government to put it to referendum. The problem of Voter fatigue is also becoming worryingly serious with turnouts of only 40-60% in some constituencies.

No doubt about it, I'd 100% agree, FG/LAB will make losses and SF gains. All the lies they have told us? Did they break promises ? Yes. Is the country in a much better position than it was a year and half ago? Yes. We are exceeding targets and getting concessions. SF will say it was always going to happen when something good happens at EU levels and the government says it was all them. The opposite is true when something bad happens, government will say it is due to markets etc. and SF that it was due to the failures of the gov. It is probably a mixture of both. Personally I'm FG biased as I'm sure you've picked up but I've been trying to present my replies as fairly as I can. We could type all day about the pros/cons of either/or but that would be for the politics forum! I almost started typing a reply about why I support FG but then realised it would be a two page essay!

foxcoverteddy

Hoolio7
Thank you for the very informative post, it was put in such a way no one could or should have been offended by the remarks.
Yes you may have been right that it was political, however why not keep loalised issues where they are.
Your work would have been lost to us on the political forum, and now I am at least somewhat more knowledgable than before.
The coun try needs people of your calibre, thanks again.
Foxy

ShatterResistant

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Hoolio7
Thank you for the very informative post, it was put in such a way no one could or should have been offended by the remarks.
Yes you may have been right that it was political, however why not keep loalised issues where they are.
Your work would have been lost to us on the political forum, and now I am at least somewhat more knowledgable than before.
The coun try needs people of your calibre, thanks again.
Foxy

More than happy to help! I just stay away from the Politics Forum because they tend to ignore logic and it just ends up in one big mud slinging contest. Thanks in particular because I can't structure my views/argument half as well when speaking to people in person. If I ever get into a serious enough debate with someone on facebook ,people often say things like, "oh block me so" or "well you're just wrong" if we disagree, but the opposite is true. We need a strong opposition who will question government decisions. As they say, you can please some of the people most of the time or most of the peole some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
I would like to try and contribute to the country in the future in some way so that is encouraging

Fair play to you also many posters just disappear off a thread when they dislike the replies

Black Suir

hooli07 wrote: »

As it stands now, Enda Kenny will lose a seat in his constituency, in which Fine Gael currently have four TD's out of five so FG will almost certainly lose out actually!

Tipperary was previously split into two, three-seat constituencies (just to clarify it isn't possible to have a six-seater). The Constituency Commission report are obliged to keep county and constituency borders in line where possible. They were now able to restore the breach of the Waterford County border, as well as give a piece of North Tipp into the new Offaly constituency. In line with the merging of North and South Tipp County Councils and the measures outlined above 90% of Tipperary are now within one council and one constituency, which makes much more sense in my eyes. Another disadvantage for the government is the former Dublin South. Previously a five seater, it is now a three seater meaning out of the three Fine Gael TD's who took the last three seats (including Alan Shatter who came last with only 10.6% of the vote) will have to fight it out in completely different constituencies.

The cost of a referendum is roughly €20-25 milllion so it is very important to get it right e.g. due to all the media attention around the Presidential election last October, the refernedum on empowering Dáil to investigate matters of national importance and make reports based on that, was rejected. In my opinion this was due to the weak wording of the proposal on the governments part and the lack of media coverage/debate it received. This is the point of the Constitutional Convention, which will consist of 33 politicians/interest groups and 66 randomly selected citizens. They will discuss how they think the dail should operate etc. and making recommendations, the onus is then on the government to put it to referendum. The problem of Voter fatigue is also becoming worryingly serious with turnouts of only 40-60% in some constituencies.

No doubt about it, I'd 100% agree, FG/LAB will make losses and SF gains. All the lies they have told us? Did they break promises ? Yes. Is the country in a much better position than it was a year and half ago? Yes. We are exceeding targets and getting concessions. SF will say it was always going to happen when something good happens at EU levels and the government says it was all them. The opposite is true when something bad happens, government will say it is due to markets etc. and SF that it was due to the failures of the gov. It is probably a mixture of both. Personally I'm FG biased as I'm sure you've picked up but I've been trying to present my replies as fairly as I can. We could type all day about the pros/cons of either/or but that would be for the politics forum! I almost started typing a reply about why I support FG but then realised it would be a two page essay!

FF will also claim some of the credit, pointing to the fact that it was they who brought in the budget before the election in Feb '11, and will claim that they had a lot of the hard calls made for FG and Lab. Anything that helps to improve the country from the Budget last December, FG and Lab can 100% take the credit for.