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Is this legal?
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27-07-2012 1:22pm#1I was recently in an accident were I am completely not at fault and the victim.
So to handle my case I got onto a no win no fee solicitor. Now throughout my minimal contact with this solictor I asked for the breakdown of the fee structure which was only delivered verbally as been around 20% but never anymore. When I asked how is this structured and decided in the end, I got a very brushed off answer - asked on a few occasions.
Now my consultation lasted all of 5 minutes. 2 phone calls which were brief and my main point of contact were various e-mails with the secratary in the office. Most of the time I didn't recieve replies for maybe up to 10 days and punctuation and spelling mistakes in each of them which were embarrassing for an alleged professional firm.
My case was to be put forward to the PIAB - it went in 2 weeks after they said it was going in straight away. When I was asked from the secretary what I was claiming I said all my legal feels.
2 weeks later I recieved a letter for the break down of price giving the "around the 20% mark" answer again but no indication of how this would be deciced.
This letter was dated a week earlier than it was sent. Which happened also on a previous letter I received. Anyways I was very concerned about the outcome feeling that the solicitor was not doing his job and was invariably going to clean me out if a claim should come through. I asked the PIAB to take over my claim and tried to contact the solictor by e-mail and phone. They were busy and never got back to me until they recieved a letter from the PIAB informing them that they were not dealing with me anymore. The solicitor was very angry and told me he was going to have a big invoice in the post and it was going to be a few hundered euros (he said 4 or 5 hundred) + the fees lost in the PIAB and medical report! He said if I did not pay them he would be issueing legal proceedings within 7 days.
So the invoice arrived two days later (dated and sent on different dates once again) and it was for excluding the fees of medical report and Piab - the sum of €1300 euro inc vat. Now the break down was scatty and it was wrong information and completely off the wall with the reality of the case to date.
Now i'm in the 7 days but little time left. I am querying every penny and if it is not more realistic I have no problem paying it but this is outrageous for the level of service I recieved. Can anyone assist me or offer advice?? Is he taking advantage and is he just trying to recover the money that he would have made on my case. I would have let him continue oif not for the series of inefficiencies and the uncertainty about the fees from the beginning. I think he is employing bully boy tactics cause he know's im very young and independent and he also knows i've gone without medical treatment because I haven't the money. He is outrageous.
Is the 7 days payment due date ridiculous and the issueing of legal proceedings if not paid within 7 days fair?
Please help me....0
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Firstly solicitors are not allowed to charge a %. How any person could charge % when there has of yet not been an award I do not know.
€1300.00 inc vat and out lays sounds normal, you said it includes medical which is usually 250 plus 45 application fee so that's 295 so your solicitor is charging you about 500 plus other outlays plus vat.
You agreed to have this solicitor do the job no foal no fee, you have now fired him, so he is entitled to be paid for the money he has spent on your behalf and for his work to date.0 -
according to http://www.lawsociety.ie/Lawinfo/You-and-Your-Solicitor/Paying-your-solicitor/
your solicitor needs to give you a written estimate of the costs and a letter of engagement. If your solicitor didn't give you one, then it would appear that you might not have to pay.
However looking at
http://www.lawsociety.ie/Lawinfo/You-and-Your-Solicitor/Complaint-about-a-solicitor/
the law society seem to be less than forthcoming....0 -
No he was going to take up to or around 20% of my fee if I was awarded compensation but could not give me the breakdown that decided the percent.
The entire fee including application to the PIAB and cost of medical report was just a few euros short of €1900 in total. The costs bourne by then sum to €410.
Now I completely understand that the fees must be paid, however I have a problem with the fact I had asked on numerous occasions what the fee structure was and he never told me, (to be honest he took me for a silly little girl that didn't know any better and ran with it),
And there is a breakdown of the costs of visits and phone calls that did not occur and e-mails @ €70 from the solicitor that included spelling mistakes and was never replied to on time. I only spoke with the solicitor very very briefly on 3 occasions - the initial point of contact, a follow up about the claim and when I had to drop something in to the office I met him for 5 minutes if even it lasted that long.
€1300 seems a bit steep for this awful quality of service, i'm kicking myself for not choosing another one that wouls have been more capable of seeing the claim through to the end, as I haven't time for managing it.
And as for the pay within 7 days or he will issue legal proceedings, where do I stand here?
Thanks in advance - this is a pretty urgent matter :mad:0 -
No he was going to take up to or around 20% of my fee if I was awarded compensation but could not give me the breakdown that decided the percent.
The entire fee including application to the PIAB and cost of medical report was just a few euros short of €1900 in total. The costs bourne by then sum to €410.
Now I completely understand that the fees must be paid, however I have a problem with the fact I had asked on numerous occasions what the fee structure was and he never told me, (to be honest he took me for a silly little girl that didn't know any better and ran with it),
And there is a breakdown of the costs of visits and phone calls that did not occur and e-mails @ €70 from the solicitor that included spelling mistakes and was never replied to on time. I only spoke with the solicitor very very briefly on 3 occasions - the initial point of contact, a follow up about the claim and when I had to drop something in to the office I met him for 5 minutes if even it lasted that long.
€1300 seems a bit steep for this awful quality of service, i'm kicking myself for not choosing another one that wouls have been more capable of seeing the claim through to the end, as I haven't time for managing it.
And as for the pay within 7 days or he will issue legal proceedings, where do I stand here?
Thanks in advance - this is a pretty urgent matter :mad:
I'm pretty sure that you would not have been happy with any solicitor,0 -
Complain to the Law Society if you think it's unfair. Bear in mind you get what you pay for.
Solicitors are like plumbers - if you don't like the attitude you shouldn't have engaged her. I relaise there is a bit of an awe complex, like with doctors, but it really is a case of saying "No thanks I think you're an ass" to a few before you find a good one.
I had to have a little word with one when we were dealing with buying the house. Suffice it to say she was as nice as pie to me after I explained I was a big boy and wasn't going to be dealt with like an idiot. That and she needed the ten grand paid back they'd accidentally transfer to us.0 -
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I'm pretty sure that you would not have been happy with any solicitor,
This is hardly helpful!
I would have been tremendously happy if the solicitor was upfront and did what he said he was going to do, when he said he was going to do it. I was hardly going to continue with him when my application was submitted 2 weeks later then when I was told it was and if he woudln't tell me what he was going to charge me. Ohh also if I could have had a reply to an e-mail on time!
If you ask me I kicked him to the kurb right on time. As he would have taken 1/5th of my compensation and then charge me the other fees on top of that, with no indication how much! It's solicitors like him that give the rest a bad name.0 -
What we need is a website where people could 'rate' the various solicitors in Ireland.0
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This is hardly helpful!
I would have been tremendously happy if the solicitor was upfront and did what he said he was going to do, when he said he was going to do it. I was hardly going to continue with him when my application was submitted 2 weeks later then when I was told it was and if he woudln't tell me what he was going to charge me. Ohh also if I could have had a reply to an e-mail on time!
If you ask me I kicked him to the kurb right on time. As he would have taken 1/5th of my compensation and then charge me the other fees on top of that, with no indication how much! It's solicitors like him that give the rest a bad name.
Ok, ignoring the fees issue for a minute (which I admit given the lack of transparency sounds dodgy). When was your first meeting and when was the PIAB application sent in?
What was so critical in your emails that required an immediate response?
(I rarely get a response from any other office, be it legal/ accountant/ engineer/ architect or state body within 10 days. State body or local authority is more like a month)
Are you going to hire another solicitor or deal with the claim yourself now?
if anther solicitor perhaps have them deal with the current issue of fees also.0 -
GCDLawstudent wrote: »What we need is a website where people could 'rate' the various solicitors in Ireland.
Would require a very brave or very foolish operator tbh.
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Ok, ignoring the fees issue for a minute (which I admit given the lack of transparency sounds dodgy). When was your first meeting and when was the PIAB application sent in?
What was so critical in your emails that required an immediate response?
(I rarely get a response from any other office, be it legal/ accountant/ engineer/ architect or state body within 10 days. State body or local authority is more like a month)
Are you going to hire another solicitor or deal with the claim yourself now?
if anther solicitor perhaps have them deal with the current issue of fees also.
My First meeting was mid May - the accident occurred at the end of April? My Piab was meant to be sent in on the 1st week in July and it was sent last last week - 2 weeks later.
E-mails about fees, about updates, about the Piab - however if I knew each e-mail was costing me €70 I wouldn't have been. And it was actually the secretary that was e-mailing me not the Solicitor, I just spoke to him briefly on 3 occasions!
I do intend to hire another but not yet. I think if the Solicitor doesn't charge me realistic fees i'm submitting a formal complaint to the Law Society. I'm sure i'm not the first to be taken advantage of and I certainly won't be the last. But this 7 days or legal proceedings, it didn't say that on the tin either. Is he (the solicitor) an idiot or am I?0 -
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My First meeting was mid May - the accident occurred at the end of April? My Piab was meant to be sent in on the 1st week in July and it was sent last last week - 2 weeks later.
E-mails about fees, about updates, about the Piab - however if I knew each e-mail was costing me €70 I wouldn't have been. And it was actually the secretary that was e-mailing me not the Solicitor, I just spoke to him briefly on 3 occasions!
I do intend to hire another but not yet. I think if the Solicitor doesn't charge me realistic fees i'm submitting a formal complaint to the Law Society. I'm sure i'm not the first to be taken advantage of and I certainly won't be the last. But this 7 days or legal proceedings, it didn't say that on the tin either. Is he (the solicitor) an idiot or am I?
You had an accident at end of April, you had a first meeting mid May and the application was last week. OK so accident about 12 weeks ago first meeting 10 weeks ago and application last week. To be honest that's really really really really fast. Seriously really fast. Also solicitor can not give you a breakdown of fees yet as this is the start. He prob said I can't tell yet what fees will be but my fees have never exceeded 20% of any award.
My own personal opinion is the solicitor is lucky you have jumped ship.0 -
There is/definitely was a website in Ireland to Rate your Solicitor. I read many reviews on it.0
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My apologies, I just checked to find the site was shut down since.0
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ResearchWill wrote: »You had an accident at end of April, you had a first meeting mid May and the application was last week. OK so accident about 12 weeks ago first meeting 10 weeks ago and application last week. To be honest that's really really really really fast. Seriously really fast. Also solicitor can not give you a breakdown of fees yet as this is the start. He prob said I can't tell yet what fees will be but my fees have never exceeded 20% of any award.
My own personal opinion is the solicitor is lucky you have jumped ship.
Often it is prudent not to act so fast as some injuries may only manifest after time. The full effects, or an accurate picture of what will happen to you in the future may not be evident if you fly through the process.0 -
If the fees are incorrect you can dispute them or get them taxed.
Interesting that you are giving out about the quality of legal service you received, including pointing out spelling mistakes in emails, and yet you have come to boards for such a purpose, armed with your own spelling mistakes and bad grammar.0 -
Often it is prudent not to act so fast as some injuries may only manifest after time. The full effects, or an accurate picture of what will happen to you in the future may not be evident if you fly through the process.
I would totally agree, hence why I said 12 weeks was really fast.0 -
ResearchWill wrote: »You agreed to have this solicitor do the job no foal no fee, you have now fired him, so he is entitled to be paid for the money he has spent on your behalf and for his work to date.
If this was a plumber, and his services were not to the customers satisfaction, they would be fired immediately and without any pay or recompense. The customer is always right.Interesting that you are giving out about the quality of legal service you received, including pointing out spelling mistakes in emails, and yet you have come to boards for such a purpose, armed with your own spelling mistakes and bad grammar.
The OP is not charging you E70 per post to read them.
To be honest OP, I would have stuck with him if I was you. To everybody else, 12 weeks to send a few emails is astonishingly slow, to solicitors its fast. Thats about as good as any of them would be. Regarding the bill of E1300, I dont know the legal ins-and-outs of it, but this solicitor knows he cant get blood out of a stone. If it cost him E1300 to do a few errands for you, it would probably cost him even more to chase your bill. Wouldn't be worth his while.
If I were you, I'd offer him whatever you earn per hour for as many hours time he afforded you. So say you earn E10 per hour, and you say he was 5 mins talking to you 3 times, then offer him E2.50. Obviously he'll refuse. Then offer him E100. If he takes it, you're settled. If not, then at least you've made two offers, both of which he didn't accept. If he does go down the legal route with you, that will stand in your favour. Get every transaction on paper, and use registered post.0 -
If this was a plumber, and his services were not to the customers satisfaction, they would be fired immediately and without any pay or recompense. The customer is always right.
The 60's called they want you back. Utter rubbish the plumber would be paid for the work done - probably ahead of time otherwise he would likely engage one of the fine chaps on this forum.
€70 for reading and responding to an e-mail is taking the mickey though.0 -
GCDLawstudent wrote: »The 60's called they want you back. Utter rubbish the plumber would be paid for the work done - probably ahead of time otherwise he would likely engage one of the fine chaps on this forum.
Are YOU taking the mickey? A plumber paid ahead of time? Eh, I'm a plumber, PM me in future if you need any work done!0 -
I don't want to be charged €70 for you reading it.0
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If this was a plumber, and his services were not to the customers satisfaction, they would be fired immediately and without any pay or recompense. The customer is always right.
The OP is not charging you E70 per post to read them.
To be honest OP, I would have stuck with him if I was you. To everybody else, 12 weeks to send a few emails is astonishingly slow, to solicitors its fast. Thats about as good as any of them would be. Regarding the bill of E1300, I dont know the legal ins-and-outs of it, but this solicitor knows he cant get blood out of a stone. If it cost him E1300 to do a few errands for you, it would probably cost him even more to chase your bill. Wouldn't be worth his while.
If I were you, I'd offer him whatever you earn per hour for as many hours time he afforded you. So say you earn E10 per hour, and you say he was 5 mins talking to you 3 times, then offer him E2.50. Obviously he'll refuse. Then offer him E100. If he takes it, you're settled. If not, then at least you've made two offers, both of which he didn't accept. If he does go down the legal route with you, that will stand in your favour. Get every transaction on paper, and use registered post.
If the plumber paid 1000 euro to purchase your heating boiler, which is now fitted either by him or another he is entitled to be paid. If the plumber did the work on a certain basis and you now decided you where not happy then as you have withdraw from the contract in my opinion incorrectly then he is entitled to charge what he wants.
If the OP is not happy with the bill then go to taxation.0 -
Are YOU taking the mickey? A plumber paid ahead of time? Eh, I'm a plumber, PM me in future if you need any work done!
What plumber has to engage in work, pay for all the supplies and then wait for up to 4 or 5 years to get any of the money back. Not months years. Then have to deal with a person who wants a thousand rads finished in a week and will ring the plumber every five mins to ask a stupid question.
Plumbers don't have to do the above but lawyers do.0 -
If this was a plumber, and his services were not to the customers satisfaction, they would be fired immediately and without any pay or recompense. The customer is always right.
The OP is not charging you E70 per post to read them.
To be honest OP, I would have stuck with him if I was you. To everybody else, 12 weeks to send a few emails is astonishingly slow, to solicitors its fast. Thats about as good as any of them would be. Regarding the bill of E1300, I dont know the legal ins-and-outs of it, but this solicitor knows he cant get blood out of a stone. If it cost him E1300 to do a few errands for you, it would probably cost him even more to chase your bill. Wouldn't be worth his while.
If I were you, I'd offer him whatever you earn per hour for as many hours time he afforded you. So say you earn E10 per hour, and you say he was 5 mins talking to you 3 times, then offer him E2.50. Obviously he'll refuse. Then offer him E100. If he takes it, you're settled. If not, then at least you've made two offers, both of which he didn't accept. If he does go down the legal route with you, that will stand in your favour. Get every transaction on paper, and use registered post.
This is not a plumbing job, and if a plumber provided a service, even if not 100% adequate that would not automatically disqualify them from a partial payment of outlay for material or a quantum meruit payment.
The customer is not always right, often with legal advice the customer is their own worst enemy.
The OP never suggested it took 12 weeks to send an email, please read the post. And as correctly suggested by ResearchWill there are often valid reasons in the client's interest in drawing out the process.
The LEGAL advice you are offering in your last paragraph is totally incorrect and would quite probably go against you.0 -
Your screwed and will have to pay!0
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I was recently in an accident were I am completely not at fault and the victim.
So to handle my case I got onto a no win no fee solicitor. Now throughout my minimal contact with this solictor I asked for the breakdown of the fee structure which was only delivered verbally as been around 20% but never anymore. When I asked how is this structured and decided in the end, I got a very brushed off answer - asked on a few occasions.
Now my consultation lasted all of 5 minutes. 2 phone calls which were brief and my main point of contact were various e-mails with the secratary in the office. Most of the time I didn't recieve replies for maybe up to 10 days and punctuation and spelling mistakes in each of them which were embarrassing for an alleged professional firm.
My case was to be put forward to the PIAB - it went in 2 weeks after they said it was going in straight away. When I was asked from the secretary what I was claiming I said all my legal feels.
2 weeks later I recieved a letter for the break down of price giving the "around the 20% mark" answer again but no indication of how this would be deciced.
This letter was dated a week earlier than it was sent. Which happened also on a previous letter I received. Anyways I was very concerned about the outcome feeling that the solicitor was not doing his job and was invariably going to clean me out if a claim should come through. I asked the PIAB to take over my claim and tried to contact the solictor by e-mail and phone. They were busy and never got back to me until they recieved a letter from the PIAB informing them that they were not dealing with me anymore. The solicitor was very angry and told me he was going to have a big invoice in the post and it was going to be a few hundered euros (he said 4 or 5 hundred) + the fees lost in the PIAB and medical report! He said if I did not pay them he would be issueing legal proceedings within 7 days.
So the invoice arrived two days later (dated and sent on different dates once again) and it was for excluding the fees of medical report and Piab - the sum of €1300 euro inc vat. Now the break down was scatty and it was wrong information and completely off the wall with the reality of the case to date.
Now i'm in the 7 days but little time left. I am querying every penny and if it is not more realistic I have no problem paying it but this is outrageous for the level of service I recieved. Can anyone assist me or offer advice?? Is he taking advantage and is he just trying to recover the money that he would have made on my case. I would have let him continue oif not for the series of inefficiencies and the uncertainty about the fees from the beginning. I think he is employing bully boy tactics cause he know's im very young and independent and he also knows i've gone without medical treatment because I haven't the money. He is outrageous.
Is the 7 days payment due date ridiculous and the issueing of legal proceedings if not paid within 7 days fair?
Please help me....
Hiya,
Few things first, your Solicitor, although would seem to not have very good bedside manners, did his job correctly it would seem. He acted very fast, and is entitled to recoup whatever costs necessary. If you are engaging another solicitor, get them to undertake to discharge whatever costs, or speak to him on your behalf. Forget the Law Society, all your doing is complaining as he wasn't a nice person...they don't give a fiddlers.....
What you have to remember is (not giving out) your not his only client, so sometimes he can't reply straight away, although, 10 days does seem slightly excessive.
His Secretary is rarely replying to you, she is doing so under his instructions, whether you see him or not.
He has to supply you with a Section 68 outlining costs etc, but as he's one of those 'no win/no fee' guys, he really can't put a fee on something he doesn't know himself. The problem with the no win/no fee lads is, they drag it right to court, and recoup all costs etc that way, so, say you settle for 16k, they get extortionate fees, and you pay outlays, a smaller firm will settle quicker, and at the end, the fee you end up with, is exactly as from those no win lads. What Solicitor is going to take on work, where they run the risk of not getting paid??!! You can't get blood from a stone?! If the case will be successful, they'll take it, i.e. if theres money at the end, they'll bite. Only difference is, you may be caught paying for your own medicals, but most firms, will cover this.
In short, 1300/1900 is very nominal considering he did the leg work.....you get what you pay for unfortunately. By doing PIAB yourself, you run the risk of a smaller settlement.......0
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