Your views on barebacking

1ZRed

I think barebacking is completely normal and natural and I have nothing against it at all. 

BUT!

I have conditions!

1) I wouldn't bb with any random guy or hook up. 

2) I would want to be in a monogamous and trusting relationship that was fairly serious and far along. 

3) and I would want both of us to be tested before hand and every 6 months to      a year after starting this. 


I've never had unprotected sex before but I think it could be a really close and intimate experience. That is, if you don't give it out to every single guy of course! (that was a really girly thing to say:P) 
I know I'll be doing it at some point in future with a guy I'm with about and it's a normal and acceptable thing to do in my eyes as long as both partners are healthy, honest with each other and realise what they're getting themselves into. If anything I think it's a progressive step in a relationship. 

Anyway, that's just my stance on it but I'm interested to know what other guys think. 

Now, I don't want a massive argument to arise because of my views on this because I think my thoughts on barebacking are fairly realistic and responsible. It would be nice to have an honest discussion and get our points across with no judgement that's all;)

1ZRed

I get the poll isn't great but it was a bit difficult to word it properly and effectively but I thought the end result would be kind of interesting.

If you have a better suggestion for some of the choices, feel free to throw them at me;)

floggg

There should probably be a never option too.

In a serious relationship yes, though of course you would want to be sure your other half isn't sleeping around on the sly!

A guy tried to get me to bareback a few weeks ago on a one night stand. I left. If you are willing to have unprotected sex with a stranger you are exactly the type of person one shouldn't have any sexual contact with!

stephen_n

Defo should be a no not ever you really need your head tested option in the poll!

foggy_lad

Sex lasts a few minutes if your lucky and hiv infection lasts a lifetime so definitely a never in a million years option required.

1ZRed

I honestly forgot to add the "never" option even though I thought about it right before I posted!:o
Need to sort that out!

So for now at least, the "other option" is never

1ZRed

floggg wrote: »

There should probably be a never option too.

In a serious relationship yes, though of course you would want to be sure your other half isn't sleeping around on the sly!

A guy tried to get me to bareback a few weeks ago on a one night stand. I left. If you are willing to have unprotected sex with a stranger you are exactly the type of person one shouldn't have any sexual contact with!

I agree with that. I was actually propositioned to bareback a week or two ago. Honestly, I was too uncomfortable to follow through even though I never agreed to it in the first place. I think you're right about somebody who was willing to follow through with that.
I think more than anything I got him really hot and he wanted me but I just couldn't take the risk and I didn't want to either. I'm 18 and I don't need to have such a massive regret so early on in my life that would have been so easily avoided.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Sex lasts a few minutes if your lucky and hiv infection lasts a lifetime so definitely a never in a million years option required.

What's with the fear mongering? There is nothing wrong with having unprotected sex between two monogamous and healthy guys in a serious relationship. It happens often and is a natural progression in a relationship.
Would you hold straight couples who do the same (anal sex included) to the same standard? (baring in mind that they would be less concerned about STIs and more about avoiding contraception)
I'm not a fool and I know of the risks involved and as I said, I have never had unprotected sex. But I don't see anything right or wrong with barebacking under certain circumstances. And I don't have unprotected sex with randomers, I stated that if you implied I was being risky and stupid.



And if you're only lasting a few minutes at best, I'd look into practising edging and kegeling to get your endurance up. It works.

Annasopra

1ZRed wrote: »

I honestly forgot to add the "never" option even though I thought about it right before I posted!:o
Need to sort that out!

So for now at least, the "other option" is never

I've added an extra option

oisindoyle

"and I would want both of us to be tested before hand and every 6 months to a year after starting this. "

WOW the naivety!!

So you're saying that you meet this guy you "like " him and witing a few months you are gonna have BB sex with him ?
You have to have complete Trust in a guy a few months into a relationship isnt long enough in my opinion

"Would you hold straight couples who do the same (anal sex included) to the same standard? (baring in mind that they would be less concerned about STIs and more about avoiding contraception)"

So straight couples shouldnt care about STIs ,,My God think about what you just said ,,,
EVERYONE gay /straight must think about STIs if they are going to have sex

You said you are 18 , You've a lot to learn and NEED to learn a lot

Annasopra

oisindoyle wrote: »

"and I would want both of us to be tested before hand and every 6 months to a year after starting this. "

WOW the naivety!!

So you're saying that you meet this guy you "like " him and witing a few months you are gonna have BB sex with him ?
You have to have complete Trust in a guy a few months into a relationship isnt long enough in my opinion

"Would you hold straight couples who do the same (anal sex included) to the same standard? (baring in mind that they would be less concerned about STIs and more about avoiding contraception)"

So straight couples shouldnt care about STIs ,,My God think about what you just said ,,,
EVERYONE gay /straight must think about STIs if they are going to have sex

You said you are 18 , You've a lot to learn and NEED to learn a lot

I think maybe you didn't read 1zreds posts fully or you may have misinterpreted them

He didn't say he'd have BB within months of meeting a guy

He didn't say straight couples shouldn't care about STIs

1ZRed

oisindoyle wrote: »

"and I would want both of us to be tested before hand and every 6 months to a year after starting this. "

WOW the naivety!!

So you're saying that you meet this guy you "like " him and witing a few months you are gonna have BB sex with him ?
You have to have complete Trust in a guy a few months into a relationship isnt long enough in my opinion

Where did you get that? I'm not with anyone and I'm 100% single right now. You're seeing things that just aren't there I'm afraid.
Even though I'm not with anyone now I know you can't hold your own opinions over somebody else's relationship. A few months could be fine for some, too short for others. Kind of like how many months it takes to fall in love. It depends on the person and the relationship so if you were to say "that's too soon" it would be totally irrelevant. That's your opinion that shouldn't fall over what other people think.

"Would you hold straight couples who do the same (anal sex included) to the same standard? (baring in mind that they would be less concerned about STIs and more about avoiding contraception)"

So straight couples shouldnt care about STIs ,,My God think about what you just said ,,,
EVERYONE gay /straight must think about STIs if they are going to have sex

I never said that. Straight people put more of an emphasis on preventing pregnancy than the transmission of STIs. I didn't say they shouldn't care about them because obviously they still do. I have friends that are on the pill and have unprotected ONS but it's seen as "ok" because they can't get pregnant. The lads have had the same experiences where they didn't need to wear a condom. That behaviour is so common and it's not really ok at all. That's what I meant by that.
My point was that if a guy and a girl were to have unprotected anal sex, many wouldn't have a problem if they were in a monogamous relationship. I get it that the risk is higher for infection among gay/bi men but if two guys were clean and monogamous wouldn't it be the same situation for them as the straight couple? So in that case I fail to see how barebacking is so wrong.

You said you are 18 , You've a lot to learn and NEED to learn a lot

Yeah I'm a young guy and I'll be forever learning but you're reading into things, misinterpreting my words and making assumptions. I said I've never had unprotected sex, I'm well aware of the risks and I researched them when I started having sex with men. I thought that was the responsible thing to do. Anyway my views are my own and obviously other guys feel the same as long as it's between two healthy guys in a committed monogamous relationship.
I'm not out having loads of unprotected sex with hook ups like a lot of young guys my age. I think that's something good to note.

I'm not saying I know everything. Far from it.
But tell me, what do you think I need to learn?

Btw, what did you pick?

brokenice

never ever ever ever ever ever ever....don't care how trusting you can be of your partner....respect yourself peeps!

1ZRed

brokenice wrote: »

never ever ever ever ever ever ever....don't care how trusting you can be of your partner....respect yourself peeps!

No I don't agree with that. You can't be so fearful of it when it's not a risk and a test says so. If I couldn't trust a guy I was very serious about then I wouldn't see the point of being with him.

I understand completely if guys are like this with hook ups and casual relationships but if you're exclusive and serious?
Straight couples do it, and if both people are negative, what's so dangerous and different about the situation? It's like a stupid double standard just because HIV is perceived to be so rampant in the gay community.
Anyone can cheat, gay or straight so that's not reason enough at all to justify being so petrified if it's called out against bb in some circumstances.

Anyway that's my view and I'm not trying to force it on you but I think you should try the same man (:

I agree that you should respect and look out for yourself too if you're not comfortable about what's going on though. That I completely get and don't question.

keepkeyyellow

Not even going to bother reading this thread because I know what will come up.

But look, regardless of the whole HIV and AIDS thing, do you really want poo on your bits? God knows I don't

LegacyUser

i did it multiple times on holiday and now i feel really sick, literally.

dont be stupid like me.

bikeman1

I have only ever done this with my bf of 3 years and that was only a recent development. I previously would have been a no no. We have got ourselves checked and we're both clean so there's no issue there.

One thing I would say is that it feels a hell of a lot better than with a condom, but that is probably a given.

I would wait until you are in a proper serious and monogamous relationship before doing that. There is nothing wrong with it, but you have to take your sexual health very seriously.

Conor30

I worry for the 2 guys who said they'd bareback on a one-night-stand/hook-up!

Stereomaniac

My thoughts exactly. I was with the majority on this one! But maybe some people weren't honest!

brokenice

1ZRed wrote: »

No I don't agree with that. You can't be so fearful of it when it's not a risk and a test says so. If I couldn't trust a guy I was very serious about then I wouldn't see the point of being with him.

I understand completely if guys are like this with hook ups and casual relationships but if you're exclusive and serious?
Straight couples do it, and if both people are negative, what's so dangerous and different about the situation? It's like a stupid double standard just because HIV is perceived to be so rampant in the gay community.
Anyone can cheat, gay or straight so that's not reason enough at all to justify being so petrified if it's called out against bb in some circumstances.

Anyway that's my view and I'm not trying to force it on you but I think you should try the same man (:

I agree that you should respect and look out for yourself too if you're not comfortable about what's going on though. That I completely get and don't question.

If you don't know a person...and nobody ever really truly knows a person....well then a medical test may not be a 100% guarantee. What about the window period? What if your partner has lied to you, has cheated on you recently and a negative reading still shows up? And men lie. The same goes for straight couples. Of course, I'm not saying all men are cheats and liars...but you have to take into account that they could be. That's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. At the end of the day, what difference does a layer of latex mean? To some a lot, to me, nothing. So I won't be 'trying it' as you suggest. It's a no negotiation topic for me in a relationship. If men have a problem with that...well let's just say they won't be in a relationship with me in the first place.

Conor30

brokenice wrote: »

If you don't know a person...and nobody ever really truly knows a person....well then a medical test may not be a 100% guarantee. What about the window period? What if your partner has lied to you, has cheated on you recently and a negative reading still shows up? And men lie. The same goes for straight couples. Of course, I'm not saying all men are cheats and liars...but you have to take into account that they could be. That's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. At the end of the day, what difference does a layer of latex mean? To some a lot, to me, nothing. So I won't be 'trying it' as you suggest. It's a no negotiation topic for me in a relationship. If men have a problem with that...well let's just say they won't be in a relationship with me in the first place.

Good point.

Annasopra

Conor30 wrote: »

I worry for the 2 guys who said they'd bareback on a one-night-stand/hook-up!

Actually I worry for everyone who chose an option in this poll other than "No definitely not.... ever" and "in a serious monogamous relationship only"

ongarboy

mango salsa wrote: »

Actually I worry for everyone who chose an option in this poll other than "No definitely not.... ever" and "in a serious monogamous relationship only"

And this is why new cases of HIV positive diagnoses are still a very real and current problem in 2012 for gay men. Some of us are old enough to remember the horror stories and ads on TV about AIDS and when HIV was a death sentence. I wonder if because younger folks were not exposed to that era and that HIV is now almost seen as an ailment you can live with like diabetes, that there is a level of complacency that would not have been around 15 or 20 years ago?

Annasopra

ongarboy wrote: »

And this is why new cases of HIV positive diagnoses are still a very real and current problem in 2012 for gay men. Some of us are old enough to remember the horror stories and ads on TV about AIDS and when HIV was a death sentence. I wonder if because younger folks were not exposed to that era and that HIV is now almost seen as an ailment you can live with like diabetes, that there is a level of complacency that would not have been around 15 or 20 years ago?

The number of new diagnoses amongst msm is actually increasing. I think you are right - a lot of younger people from 30 downwards don't really have the same experiences of horrific tv ads and knowing people who died from Aids

BuffyBot

Conor30 wrote: »

I worry for the 2 guys who said they'd bareback on a one-night-stand/hook-up!

And here in lies a lot of the problem. The gay community is actually quite judgemental about this, so much so it actively discourages people about being honest about their sexual pasts for fear of rejection and ridicule,which in turn makes it more risky for everyone involved. I'd actually say the percentage that engage in such activities and even with an anonymous poll, many will still not answer honestly due to the stigma which is attached to it.

floggg

brokenice wrote: »

If you don't know a person...and nobody ever really truly knows a person....well then a medical test may not be a 100% guarantee. What about the window period? What if your partner has lied to you, has cheated on you recently and a negative reading still shows up? And men lie. The same goes for straight couples. Of course, I'm not saying all men are cheats and liars...but you have to take into account that they could be. That's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. At the end of the day, what difference does a layer of latex mean? To some a lot, to me, nothing. So I won't be 'trying it' as you suggest. It's a no negotiation topic for me in a relationship. If men have a problem with that...well let's just say they won't be in a relationship with me in the first place.

While I agree with the need for precaution I think if at a certain point in a relationship you can't fully trust your other half you have to question the relationship.

Not necessarily about condom use, but of you are in a long term and committed relationship and can't say you feel you truly know and trust your partner I don't think the relationship is what it should be.

Yes, your partner can disappoint you or let you down and nobody is perfect but i would hate to be with somebody I felt I couldn't trust 100%.

Conor30

BuffyBot wrote: »

And here in lies a lot of the problem. The gay community is actually quite judgemental about this, so much so it actively discourages people about being honest about their sexual pasts for fear of rejection and ridicule,which in turn makes it more risky for everyone involved. I'd actually say the percentage that engage in such activities and even with an anonymous poll, many will still not answer honestly due to the stigma which is attached to it.

Get real! It's an anonymous poll and people are perfectly free to choose which option they wish. No one would even know, judgemental or not. And I don't think the 'gay community' (whoever they are) are judgemental about risky sex. People are just rightly discouraged from engaging in risky sex, for very obvious reasons. To engage in unsafe sex with a complete stranger is simply stupid.

Your fellow moderator, Mango Salsa, also backed up my stance, and even went further, but I see you decided not to 'call them out' on it.

stephen_n

BuffyBot wrote: »

And here in lies a lot of the problem. The gay community is actually quite judgemental about this, so much so it actively discourages people about being honest about their sexual pasts for fear of rejection and ridicule,which in turn makes it more risky for everyone involved. I'd actually say the percentage that engage in such activities and even with an anonymous poll, many will still not answer honestly due to the stigma which is attached to it.

How is it judgemental to be against extremely risky behaviour? It may be judgemental to question people being camp or fitting stereotypes but questioning the sanity of having, the single most dangerous form of sex with someone, on a one night stand is certainly not!

BuffyBot

Conor30 wrote: »

Get real! It's an anonymous poll and people are perfectly free to choose which option they wish. No one would even know, judgemental or not. And I don't think the 'gay community' (whoever they are) are judgemental about risky sex. People are just rightly discouraged from engaging in risky sex, for very obvious reasons. To engage in unsafe sex with a complete stranger is simply stupid.

Your fellow moderator, Mango Salsa, also backed up my stance, and even went further, but I see you decided not to 'call them out' on it.

I wasn't aware I'm a mod on this forum *checks*..oh wait, I'm not..just a regular user. As far as I'm aware, we're not hatched from tubes, and aren't required to have identical views on everything. I may have missed a memo on that, however. Your post was simply the last in the thread at the time..

Anyway, this kind of reaction is an example of exactly what I mean: "call them out", "stupid" etc. It's scarlet-lettering for a new age. We'll have to disagree about the judgemental aspect however, but I've seen it happen in many places and in my experience people are afraid to be upfront about it. It would appear that the mere mention of the word brings out the worst in people sometimes, and some of the rabid mouth-frothing that results from it makes me despair. I'd rather be informed about what someone has done and judge from there than deceived out of their fears. A person in fear of being rejected, ridiculed, lectured to, scorned or anything else is more likely to keep their "dirty little secret" exactly that. And someone else who witnesses that sort of reaction is likely to take away no lesson except to keep their mouths shut. At best it will make some more defiant, at worst it drives them further into the dark. And that to me is a bad thing.

The fact is, it's out there. It may not be liked by many, but on the flip side many see it as a perfectly natural choice to undertake and let's face it some even enjoy it. No amount of reactive behaviour is ever going to change that. In fact, I'd be so bold to say that *nothing* will change that. What everyone can do is to ensure its possible to make informed, educated decisions and armed with the knowledge that empowers them to make the right choice.

Don't get me started about the sheer numbers of "Safe Sex: Always" folks out there that are anything but. Hence I'm perfectly confident about my assertion about the poll results. Fear is a powerful motivation to lie.

Annasopra

Let's have a mature conversation on this - if you feel you disagree with something attack the post not the poster

1ZRed

ongarboy wrote: »

And this is why new cases of HIV positive diagnoses are still a very real and current problem in 2012 for gay men. Some of us are old enough to remember the horror stories and ads on TV about AIDS and when HIV was a death sentence. I wonder if because younger folks were not exposed to that era and that HIV is now almost seen as an ailment you can live with like diabetes, that there is a level of complacency that would not have been around 15 or 20 years ago?

Yeah I think guys still see HIV as a very serious thing but it's no death sentence anymore so naturally once it has lost it's severity people aren't as hysterical about it anymore. I'm not saying that's a good thing.

I don't get why some older guys are so judgemental about this subject and "worry" about guys who pick something other than the "serious monogamous relationship" option. It seems to me like every other choice is looked at like an anonymous ONS. It's not the case. Not every single guy has HIV and with a test and a commitment involved, it's fine.
I wouldn't worry about anyone if you're not going to be doing what they're doing up or down so it shouldn't concern you. Quit the judgement, it can be played against you too.
Yeah I'm controversial in my views, I usually am, but only to get to see things from the other side. You can't argue on just one side of an extreme. And guys that don't bareback even when tested and in a trusting and monogamous realtionship are the other side of the extreme by being ultra fearful. There's no need to be very free about unprotected sex or be so closed to it. A middle ground that is safe and medically tested to be so is the right place to sit.

I'm not backing and promoting bbing to its fullest but I want to get the point across that unprotected sex, to an extent and under certain circumstances, is completely fine.

Nobody should be so untrusting of their partners that they can't trust them just because they are ridiculously fearful of it. Yeah you should always take your sexual health so seriously, I do, but I don't agree with this unnecessary fear mongering when the reasons for it (while in a solid and serious relationship) just aren't there.

Life is pure sh/t if you avoid and hide from everything and if both people are deemed clean, and the situation is safe, you are afraid something that's not there.
I'm pretty certain that cautious nature spills over into other aspects of your life not just in regards to HIV and other STIs. That's a bad thing.

1ZRed

stephen_n wrote: »

How is it judgemental to be against extremely risky behaviour? It may be judgemental to question people being camp or fitting stereotypes but questioning the sanity of having, the single most dangerous form of sex with someone, on a one night stand is certainly not!

And tell me you've never had unprotected sex ever throughout your whole life?

I've been with both guys and girls and have never done without a condom. So if your views on this are that strong and if you have had unprotected sex with a woman beit vaginal or anal, isn't that a bit hypocritical?

A lot of posters have made valid points about doing it under their own circumstances. I think we are all discouraging of barebacking on a ONS but there is nothing actually wrong with barebacking, just the means by which you do it.
And even then "wrong" is a very trivial and highly variable term so I wouldn't be quick to judge anyone. It's not my call to make, it's their choice.
As long as I'm safe and not being wreckless, I'll be ok and that's where my energy goes instead of onto others and what they do.

bodice ripper

if you are 18, do the world a favour and just put thoughts of barebacking out of your head for the foreseeable future

1ZRed

bodice ripper wrote: »

if you are 18, do the world a favour and just put thoughts of barebacking out of your head for the foreseeable future

Did I say I was going to bareback? No.
I got propositioned to do it my a hook up so it got me thinking about barebacking and if I would ever do it, how would I feel about it and in what situation would I do it.
I made myself clear. I'm the first choice kind of guy not for a hook up.

So yeah I'll keep it on my mind because I'm interested in other guys views and if they are similar to my own.
My age has nothing to do with anything in this discussion.

Conor30

BuffyBot wrote: »

I wasn't aware I'm a mod on this forum *checks*..oh wait, I'm not..just a regular user. As far as I'm aware, we're not hatched from tubes, and aren't required to have identical views on everything. I may have missed a memo on that, however. Your post was simply the last in the thread at the time..

Anyway, this kind of reaction is an example of exactly what I mean: "call them out", "stupid" etc. It's scarlet-lettering for a new age. We'll have to disagree about the judgemental aspect however, but I've seen it happen in many places and in my experience people are afraid to be upfront about it. It would appear that the mere mention of the word brings out the worst in people sometimes, and some of the rabid mouth-frothing that results from it makes me despair. I'd rather be informed about what someone has done and judge from there than deceived out of their fears. A person in fear of being rejected, ridiculed, lectured to, scorned or anything else is more likely to keep their "dirty little secret" exactly that. And someone else who witnesses that sort of reaction is likely to take away no lesson except to keep their mouths shut. At best it will make some more defiant, at worst it drives them further into the dark. And that to me is a bad thing.

The fact is, it's out there. It may not be liked by many, but on the flip side many see it as a perfectly natural choice to undertake and let's face it some even enjoy it. No amount of reactive behaviour is ever going to change that. In fact, I'd be so bold to say that *nothing* will change that. What everyone can do is to ensure its possible to make informed, educated decisions and armed with the knowledge that empowers them to make the right choice.

Don't get me started about the sheer numbers of "Safe Sex: Always" folks out there that are anything but. Hence I'm perfectly confident about my assertion about the poll results. Fear is a powerful motivation to lie.

Did you get your breath back already? Actually my post wasn't the last in the thread at the time, but anyway.
Whom are barebackers keeping their 'dirty secret' from, in your opinion? From medical practioners, from friends, from fcuk buddies, from partners? I honestly don't get what you're on about.

Barebacking is a reckless activity, especially if it's on a one-night-stand with a complete stranger or in a gay sauna or something. Any medical practioner will tell you that. It's merely common sense.
I, and nobody else, as far as I can see, was saying anyone who is pro-barebacking should be 'called out' on it, so not sure why that was mentioned. But it is stupid and risky to bareback with a stranger - everyone knows this nowadays. I don't think anybody is judging or being judgemental about the gay men who are barebacking in risky circumstances; they're just strongly discouraging the risky activity itself.

And so what if people lie in this poll, not that I think people necessarily have? It is that crucially important, at the end of the day?? It's just some poll on some thread on some messageboard. Big deal.

stephen_n

1ZRed wrote: »

And tell me you've never had unprotected sex ever throughout your whole life?

I've been with both guys and girls and have never done without a condom. So if your views on this are that strong and if you have had unprotected sex with a woman beit vaginal or anal, isn't that a bit hypocritical?

A lot of posters have made valid points about doing it under their own circumstances. I think we are all discouraging of barebacking on a ONS but there is nothing actually wrong with barebacking, just the means by which you do it.
And even then "wrong" is a very trivial and highly variable term so I wouldn't be quick to judge anyone. It's not my call to make, it's their choice.
As long as I'm safe and not being wreckless, I'll be ok and that's where my energy goes instead of onto others and what they do.

No I have never had unprotected sex with ANYONE male or female on a one night stand and am in a committed relationship for 2 and half years and still have protected sex! Personally I would never have unprotected anal sex with anyone but I don't condemn people who do! I would however have a problem with people thinking unprotected sex on one night stands or even in short term relationships is safe or sane behaviour. I have friends who took those risks and have paid a huge price for it!

BattleCorp

Not a very trusting relationship if you need to be tested every 6 months.