Will you pick RVP if he stays

manual_man

yay or nay

Lemlin

manual_man wrote: »

yay or nay

Nay. He looked tired at the Euros. Last year I'd expect (without checking stats) that he played a lot more games than he is used to as well.

grohlisagod

If he looks up for it I'll probably draft him in around GW6. It's a wait and see scenario for me.

A_Sober_Paddy

His 13 million so very unlikely...

Don't think he represents value for money IMO

FatRat

Of course! Definitely! If last year is anything to go by you'd be stupid not to. And if you don't go by last year than you're stupid.

FutureGuy

I haven't even considered him to be honest.

LostBoy101

I'd take him with a heart beat!

FutureGuy

FatRat wrote: »

Of course! Definitely! If last year is anything to go by you'd be stupid not to. And if you don't go by last year than you're stupid.

Au contraire, alot has changed since last year. He had a poor end to last season and was completely out of form at Euro2012. He is also 2 million more expensive at 13 m, and given the overall reductions in prices this year, he sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of value. Nani and Valencia are 4m cheaper and only Rooney comes close. Also, Arsenals first 6 games arent great at all.

My main worry about RVP is that all the poorer players will jump on him without taking any of the above into account, and he will do well despite the indications that he will not.

Of course I'll reevaluate at the start of the season, but at the moment it's Aguero, Rooney (or Torres) and Pog.

Paully D

Aguero out, Van Persie in, in a heartbeat for me.

FatRat

FutureGuy wrote: »

Au contraire, alot has changed since last year. He had a poor end to last season and was completely out of form at Euro2012. He is also 2 million more expensive at 13 m, and given the overall reductions in prices this year, he sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of value. Nani and Valencia are 4m cheaper and only Rooney comes close. Also, Arsenals first 6 games arent great at all.

My main worry about RVP is that all the poorer players will jump on him without taking any of the above into account, and he will do well despite the indications that he will not.

Of course I'll reevaluate at the start of the season, but at the moment it's Aguero, Rooney (or Torres) and Pog.

I don't agree I'm afraid. Euro 2012 is a completely different ballgame. He was playing with a completely different team (a very poorly performing team with that) and was up against MUCH tougher defences. (Portugal, Germany, Denmark). Despite that he still scored one! His end to last season wasn't the worst either. He got 3 goals in his last 3 games albeit he had a poor couple of games before that. But do you remember from the period of around GW 5 to around GW 32? Or are you blocking that out based on the fact that you think he's lost form :cool:



I just can't understand the negativity around VP! Last year if you didn't have VP, you weren't doing well, that's how it was. Everyone understood that and all we did every week was praise him. But now people are saying he won't do well? Was last year not evidence enough of how much of a FF machine he is? You said above poor FF players will have him in their teams? That's absolutely comical. If that's the case though, then it's the poor players that will be winning their leagues this year if VP stays



Also one more thing.... if you truly believe that Torres is a better pick than VP then what you're doing is blinding yourself from the facts and working off a hunch that a lot people seem to have this year. He scores 3 in the Euros and people talk him up and now he's the best new asset. But he also had yet another extremely poor year in PL last year. Van Persie scores 30 goals and gets 10 odd assists in the previous year but he's not worth investing in. Something doesn't add up. :pac:

carlcon

RVP playing up front for Arsenal is the best FF pick in the league. End of story.

No combination of a 9-10m striker and 8-9m mid is better than RVP and a 6m mid (same for two 9-10m strikers -v- RVP + 7m).

This, of course, is talking about a fit RVP who wants to play for his club. If he's carrying a knock or ends up hating Arsenal for not letting him go, it's a whole different question with a very different answer.

DazzlerIE

I'm hoping he leaves for Italy so this decision is taken out of my hands

I don't have a clue how to approach him if he stays in England

FutureGuy

FatRat wrote: »

I don't agree I'm afraid. Euro 2012 is a completely different ballgame. He was playing with a completely different team (a very poorly performing team with that) and was up against MUCH tougher defences. (Portugal, Germany, Denmark). Despite that he still scored one! His end to last season wasn't the worst either. He got 3 goals in his last 3 games albeit he had a poor couple of games before that. But do you remember from the period of around GW 5 to around GW 32? Or are you blocking that out based on the fact that you think he's lost form :cool:

I just can't understand the negativity around VP! Last year if you didn't have VP, you weren't doing well, that's how it was. Everyone understood that and all we did every week was praise him. But now people are saying he won't do well? Was last year not evidence enough of how much of a FF machine he is? You said above poor FF players will have him in their teams? That's absolutely comical. If that's the case though, then it's the poor players that will be winning their leagues this year if VP stays

Also one more thing.... if you truly believe that Torres is a better pick than VP then what you're doing is blinding yourself from the facts and working off a hunch that a lot people seem to have this year. He scores 3 in the Euros and people talk him up and now he's the best new asset. But he also had yet another extremely poor year in PL last year. Van Persie scores 30 goals and gets 10 odd assists in the previous year but he's not worth investing in. Something doesn't add up. :pac:

Cool glasses emoticons aside, I enjoyed reading your reply. This forum was set up so we could have such debates.

OK, one of the most important aspects of Fantasy Football is that we need to reevaluate every player before we pick our team from the following season. We can't just say "oh he had a good season last year so I have to have him there now".

Yes, RVP had a stunning season up until GW32. But he was very very tired at the end last year. Wenger had no choice but to play him and he took that tiredness into Euro2012. He hasn't had much of a rest since he star of last season. As we enter 2012/2013, he is going to be tired, Arsenal have tough fixtures and they now have Giroud and Podolski which means he WILL be rested against some of the weaker teams and will also be taken off earlier when Arsenal are cruising. Wenger is notorious for it when he had the ability to do so. Last year, he couldn't. Next year, he will.

Regarding Torres, he is in brackets for a reason - if I don't go with Rooney, I will go with him for the first gw at least. He does have a double gameweek in gameweek 1 against two average (at best) teams and he is certainly a confidence player. He is coming of the back of winning the top scorer award and the European Championships. He is also far less likely to be rotated than any other midfielder/striker for Chelsea, and I include Hazard in that. He is out of the shadow of Drogba and he is now the main stiker at the European Champions. He will have 3 stunning playmakers behind him. So it's not a hunch, its a decision based on obvious facts.

Van Persie is 13m this year. He is either going to be sticking around at Arsenal for the wrong reasons or he will be playing in a team where he will be rotated more often. It is alot of money to invest in a single player what may be rested in many of the games where he did exceptionally well in last year.

Now onto some mistruths. Regarding the statement "You said above poor FF players will have him in their teams? That's absolutely comical.", you have taken that out of context completely. I do not mean that only poorer players will have RVP, but the vast majority of casual players will choose RVP for no other reason that he was top scorer last year. I know for a fact that many top players will analyse everything and buy RVP and I also know that many top players will not buy RVP for the same reasons. If RVP has an incredible first 5 games, the top players who did not choose RVP will find themself behind some pretty poor teams from the get go.

Also, you seem to think that, just because I might not have RVP in my initial team, he will not be in my team later in the season. Again, wrong. I am looking at my initial starting team, and am planning a series of transfers that will bering in players over the course of the first few weeks. I actually think that the dismissal of Aguero for RVP is even a bigger faux pas. Aguero top scorer by a country mile this year if he is still on penalties.

The fact that, despite all that, RVP is still even in my thoughts is testament to the incredible player he is. I have my team built with Rooney in there and a million in the bank in case I change my mind. However, I simply do not expect him to get as many points per million as last year. It's not that I feel he is going to have a bad season, but you are spending 13m on a player who will not see as much action as last year.

Lemlin

I think its important to remember that consistency is difficult for top players. I always remember Drogba in 10-11 and the experience I garnered from his performance in the game. Drogba scored 29 goals in 32 games for Chelsea and had ten assists in 09-10. His price went sky high for the following season. Then, in 2010-11, he scored 11 goals in 36 games and had 12 assists. Still a decent tally you may argue but it in no way justified his value which I think was 13 million starting out.

Frank Lampard as well. In 05-06, he scored 16 goals and had 8 assists. Phenomenal for a midfield player. His price rocketed to something crazy like 14 million for the start of the next season. He scored 11 and assisted ten in the next season. Again, not a bad return but at his pricepoint it was poor and there were better options available.

I'll be leaving money there to get van Persie in but I'll be waiting until he delivers first. You may argue that VP was up against more difficult defences and with a different team in the Euros but, even though they were underperforming, he still had plenty of creative players around him, better midfielders than at Arsenal. He looked strangely off form and I'm not spending 13 million on a player off form and who has just played more games than he is accustomed to.

froog

Lemlin wrote: »

I think its important to remember that consistency is difficult for top players. I always remember Drogba in 10-11 and the experience I garnered from his performance in the game. Drogba scored 29 goals in 32 games for Chelsea and had ten assists in 09-10. His price went sky high for the following season. Then, in 2010-11, he scored 11 goals in 36 games and had 12 assists. Still a decent tally you may argue but it in no way justified his value which I think was 13 million starting out.

Frank Lampard as well. In 05-06, he scored 16 goals and had 8 assists. Phenomenal for a midfield player. His price rocketed to something crazy like 14 million for the start of the next season. He scored 11 and assisted ten in the next season. Again, not a bad return but at his pricepoint it was poor and there were better options available.

I'll be leaving money there to get van Persie in but I'll be waiting until he delivers first. You may argue that VP was up against more difficult defences and with a different team in the Euros but, even though they were underperforming, he still had plenty of creative players around him, better midfielders than at Arsenal. He looked strangely off form and I'm not spending 13 million on a player off form and who has just played more games than he is accustomed to.

this is what it boils down to. getting him in later is quite a challenge if you don't have money set aside and if you do you have 1-2 mill that can drastically improve the rest of your team.

for me, if he goes to city his value goes down as he will be sharing points with aguero and tevez. he would only be worth 13 mill if he stayed with arsenal. imo.