Advice needed - expiring lease

who_ru

Hi,

here's my situation.

in current apt 11 months, lease is up next month.

just spoke with LL who informed me that if i didn't sign a new 12 month lease then they would give me my notice immediately and re let the apt.

ideally i'd prefer not to sign a new lease although i'm aware that the LL can also increase the rent at anytime under those circumstances.

i also asked for an extra storage heater to be installed, LL said that while this could be done it would only be done so on the provision that a new 12 month lease be signed.

am i obliged to sign a new lease under these circumstances.

never been an issue with rent payment with me.

January

Well, you either sign the new lease or the landlord can give you proper notice to move out. Why do you not want to sign a new lease? Part 4 tenancies aren't all they're cracked up to be.

odds_on

You are not required by law to sign a new fixed term lease. However, if you wish to stay in the apartment you should advise the landlord accordingly between 3 and one month prior to the expiry of the lease, and that you want a Part 4 tenancy. Failure to advise the landlord may incur any costs he has had in relation to re-letting the property- i.e. any advertising costs or Agent costs, but it does not negate your right to remain in the property.

The landlord cannot evict you because you won't sign a lease. Because you have been in the apartment for more than six months, you have acquired Part 4 rights which mean that you may stay in the apartment for a further 3 years.

The landlord can only evict you if you are in breach of the terms and conditions of the lease. Under a Part 4 tenancy, he can only evict you under certain grounds, the two main ones are if he requires the apartment for himself (or a close family member) or if he intends to sell the property.

Either the landlord is trying it on or he does not know the law. Is your current tenancy registered with the PRTB?

The landlord does not have to supply a new/extra storage heater if one already exists and is functioning correctly.

who_ru

odds_on wrote: »

You are not required by law to sign a new fixed term lease. However, if you wish to stay in the apartment you should advise the landlord accordingly between 3 and one month prior to the expiry of the lease, and that you want a Part 4 tenancy. Failure to advise the landlord may incur any costs he has had in relation to re-letting the property- i.e. any advertising costs or Agent costs, but it does not negate your right to remain in the property.

The landlord cannot evict you because you won't sign a lease. Because you have been in the apartment for more than six months, you have acquired Part 4 rights which mean that you may stay in the apartment for a further 3 years.

The landlord can only evict you if you are in breach of the terms and conditions of the lease. Under a Part 4 tenancy, he can only evict you under certain grounds, the two main ones are if he requires the apartment for himself (or a close family member) or if he intends to sell the property.

Either the landlord is trying it on or he does not know the law. Is your current tenancy registered with the PRTB?

The landlord does not have to supply a new/extra storage heater if one already exists and is functioning correctly.

Hi and thanks for your reply.

the tenancy is registered with the PRTB.

the provision of an extra storage heater by the LL is not an issue then if the above is the case.

there is an issue with mould in the apt, particularly in the bedroom near the window. the LL lived in the apt for a 5 year period previous to my tenancy and said in that time mould was never an issue, yet argues that this has now only occurred since i moved in which is quite unbelievable.

The LL maintains the mould has occurred because i have not opened the window to vent the room often enough which is not true at all. in fact the property has an active alarm which cannot be set as it flashes 'bedroom window' when i try to set it, this happenes because the window doesn't actually close properly to comfirm the window has been shut and allow the alarm to set.

i did not inform the LL 3 months in advance of the lease expiring regarding a part 4 tenancy.

Victor

Is this the agent trying to get a fee for getting you to sign a 1 year lease?

who_ru wrote: »

i did not inform the LL 3 months in advance of the lease expiring regarding a part 4 tenancy.

There is no obligation to give 3 months notice, however, it is nice to provide more than 1 months notice.

The landlord can't increase the rent above the market rate.

odds_on wrote: »

Failure to advise the landlord may incur any costs he has had in relation to re-letting the property- i.e. any advertising costs or Agent costs

I disagree, they would be costs that the landlord would incur anyway. The landlord makes no loss (but does gain) from having a tenant stay on.

who_ru

Victor wrote: »

Is this the agent trying to get a fee for getting you to sign a 1 year lease?

no this isn't an agent it is the LL i'm dealing with directly, it is the LL's first time letting out the apt, first time being a LL, the LL lived in the apt themselves for 5 years previous to me moving in.

regarding market rate for the monthly rent, how is this arrived at. for example there are other apts in the area asking the same rent as i'm paying now, some are asking for 50 extra p/m, other 100 extra and a few 200 euro p/m extra.

odds_on

Victor wrote: »

Is this the agent trying to get a fee for getting you to sign a 1 year lease?

There is no obligation to give 3 months notice, however, it is nice to provide more than 1 months notice.

The landlord can't increase the rent above the market rate.

I disagree, they would be costs that the landlord would incur anyway. The landlord makes no loss (but does gain) from having a tenant stay on.

If the tenant does not advise the landlord that he wishes to remain in the property, the landlord may assume that the tenant will vacate at the end of the fixed term - as the lease then expires. Therefore, the landlord may advertise the property for rent in advance of the expiry date in order to avoid a void period, thus incurring advertising expenses.

It must be said that a good landlord would always check with his tenant as to what the tenant intends to do at the end of a fixed term lease - but, unfortunately there are many not-very-good landlords around!

Should the tenant then remain, the landlord is entitled to his reasonable expenses incurred, which he would not have had if the tenant had informed him that he was staying in residence. The landlord may have agreed (and signed a lease with a new tenant to take up residency the day after the previous term expires but may now have to break that agreement if the present tenant remains.

miller50841

Hi seems strange you want to stay on there if there is a bad problem with mould.

I had a huge mould problem where I rented got the enviro health over and LL was advised to sort but never did so got out also does he have a ber cert for the property.

It seems to me they not really to mad on keeping you on, it probably has something to do with anyone and everybody is renting now and he probably would have it rented quick.

odds_on

who_ru wrote: »

no this isn't an agent it is the LL i'm dealing with directly, it is the LL's first time letting out the apt, first time being a LL, the LL lived in the apt themselves for 5 years previous to me moving in.

regarding market rate for the monthly rent, how is this arrived at. for example there are other apts in the area asking the same rent as i'm paying now, some are asking for 50 extra p/m, other 100 extra and a few 200 euro p/m extra.

It seems that you might be at the lower end of the market therefore, you could expect a rent increase. However, there are certain criteria for advising you of an increase which are, basically, at least 28 days prior to the increase, to advise the tenant in writing of the new rent and the date on which that new rent will commence.

The tenant may make a claim against the increase with the PRTB but this must be done within 28 days of the tenant receiving the notice OR before the rent increase commences, which ever is the later.

As regards the mould, check out this thread, especially posts #18 and #19
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056351823&page=2

the_syco

who_ru wrote: »

i also asked for an extra storage heater to be installed, LL said that while this could be done it would only be done so on the provision that a new 12 month lease be signed.

If you are going to sign another 12 month contract, let him know that you'll sign it once the extra storage heater is installed, as otherwise it'll be put on the long finger, IMO.

Victor

odds_on wrote: »

The landlord may have agreed (and signed a lease with a new tenant to take up residency the day after the previous term expires but may now have to break that agreement if the present tenant remains.

The landlord has no such entitlement to abrogate the tenant's rights.

odds_on wrote: »

Should the tenant then remain, the landlord is entitled to his reasonable expenses incurred, which he would not have had if the tenant had informed him that he was staying in residence.

Scenario 1: The tenant stays. The landlord (imprudently) incurs the cost of advertising.

Scenario 2: The tenant doesn't stay. The landlord incurs the cost of advertising / letting agent, cleaning, time in showing prospective tenants, possible vacancy, etc.

In no way is Scenario 2 better for the landlord.

who_ru

odds_on wrote: »

Should the tenant then remain, the landlord is entitled to his reasonable expenses incurred, which he would not have had if the tenant had informed him that he was staying in residence. The landlord may have agreed (and signed a lease with a new tenant to take up residency the day after the previous term expires but may now have to break that agreement if the present tenant remains.

there is no such scenario in place.

so if i understand this correctly i am not obliged to sign a new fixed term lease, i cannot expect an extra storage heater to be installed. there is no BER cert with the property, i know this at the time of moving in, you live and learn.

so i can tell the LL that i wish to take up a part 4 tenancy, in the future i can leave the property after providing sufficient notice, in my case 6 weeks notice.

there are some pluses to the property but some minuses also, but the complete adversarial nature of the LL is infuriating. i have kept the property spotless, always paid rent early, informed LL of any issues, worked with handymen to repair faults/leaks and then get threatened with eviction unless a new fixed term lease is signed.

odds_on

Victor wrote: »

Originally Posted by odds_on
Should the tenant then remain, the landlord is entitled to his reasonable expenses incurred, which he would not have had if the tenant had informed him that he was staying in residence. The landlord may have agreed (and signed a lease with a new tenant to take up residency the day after the previous term expires but may now have to break that agreement if the present tenant remains.

The landlord has no such entitlement to abrogate the tenant's rights.

To which tenant are you referring? A new tenant or the previous tenant?

Scenario 1: The tenant stays. The landlord (imprudently) incurs the cost of advertising.

These costs may be recovered from the tenant.

extract from landlordsonline, where it is phrased much more clearly than perhaps I have done:
http://www.landlordsonline.ie/information/landlords-and-their-tenants/a-tenants-right-on-the-expiry-of-a-fixed-term-lease-agreement/

However, if your tenant wishes to remain in occupation of your property after the fixed term tenancy expires, under Section 195 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 there is a positive obligation on a tenant who has been living in a property for 6 months to notify the landlord that he is exercising his right to a Part 4 tenancy. Section 195 also requires a tenant to notify the landlord of his intention to exercise his rights under Part 4 not later than 1 month before the expiration of the fixed term tenancy and not sooner than three months before it expires.
So the next time a tenant tells you he is going to exercise his Part 4 rights, make sure he has given you the requisite notice. If a tenant fails to comply with these notification obligations and a landlord suffers loss or damage as a result, for example if you had arranged to re-let the property, then your tenant will be liable to you for those losses or damages and you can pursue the tenant in the PRTB for these losses incurred and damages.
Landlords must be careful, however, as failure by a tenant to comply with his notification obligations within the required time limits does not necessarily entitle the landlord to terminate the tenancy. The landlord’s recourse is to make a claim against the tenant in the PRTB to recover any losses suffered on account of the tenants non-compliance.

Scenario 2: The tenant doesn't stay. The landlord incurs the cost of advertising / letting agent, cleaning, time in showing prospective tenants, possible vacancy, etc.

Agreed

In no way is Scenario 2 better for the landlord.

Agreed

who_ru

OP here - quick update to this.

after discussions I am able to continue with my current tenancy agreement at an unadjusted rent without having to sign a new fixed term lease.

common sense prevailed all around.

thanks to everyone for their advice which was a great help.

OP.

Graces7

who_ru wrote: »

OP here - quick update to this.

after discussions I am able to continue with my current tenancy agreement at an unadjusted rent without having to sign a new fixed term lease.

common sense prevailed all around.

thanks to everyone for their advice which was a great help.

OP.

Well done! We are much in the same situation; asked about a new lease but there was simply silence so we left it at that.

PS are you getting the storage heater? I would not have them because of the high cost of running them.

who_ru

Graces7 wrote: »

Well done! We are much in the same situation; asked about a new lease but there was simply silence so we left it at that.

PS are you getting the storage heater? I would not have them because of the high cost of running them.

Hi,

no word on the extra storage heater, they are very expensive to run i agree.

i am looking at the newer type electric heater in the link, much more efficient than a storage and easy to install. even if i have to get it myself, i can take it with me when i leave.

http://www.electricheaters.ie/products

djimi

We used one of those plug in radiators (the ones that heat up the oil/liquid inside) this winter and overall it cost us about half as much to heat the apartment as it did when we used storage heaters the previous winter. No way I will ever use a storage heater again; Id sooner rely on hot water bottles and a duvet while watching TV than see that much of my income go to the ESB each winter! Shockingly poor methods of heating; complete waste of money.

who_ru

djimi wrote: »

We used one of those plug in radiators (the ones that heat up the oil/liquid inside) this winter and overall it cost us about half as much to heat the apartment as it did when we used storage heaters the previous winter. No way I will ever use a storage heater again; Id sooner rely on hot water bottles and a duvet while watching TV than see that much of my income go to the ESB each winter! Shockingly poor methods of heating; complete waste of money.

were you able to take advantage of a dual tariff electricity meter? cheaper to heat up the storage heater at night.

Graces7

djimi wrote: »

We used one of those plug in radiators (the ones that heat up the oil/liquid inside) this winter and overall it cost us about half as much to heat the apartment as it did when we used storage heaters the previous winter. No way I will ever use a storage heater again; Id sooner rely on hot water bottles and a duvet while watching TV than see that much of my income go to the ESB each winter! Shockingly poor methods of heating; complete waste of money.

A person after my own heart!

Empty bleach bottles make great hot water bottles too.. My feet love them...

Even with double tarriff they run up fearful bills; there was a new council devt up in Donegal where they had them and many of the tenants got into debt over the storage heaters.