1year old springer spaniel with lymphoma

Themarts

My springer spaniel is 21 months old and has recently been diagnosed with Lymphoma after I discoverd he had two golf ball sized lumps on his neck! Wen i brought him to the vet the next day he assured me that his lymphnodes internally and externally were all inflamed! My vet seem to be baffled by this as he is so young, they said they had never experienced this before only in much older dogs. His tests were sent away over the Past few weeks and vets from all over seem stunned. They began testing him with needle asperations in his lumps, which came back non conclusive. We then sent him for a biopsy Where they removed two lumps, again the results were unsure and at that stage the Vet was pretty sure he was Ok. Then a blood test was taken only when we told the vet his water consumption was dramatically high. Apparently a blood test is ment to show one hundred per cent that he has lymphoma but it didn't, he has still been diagnosed as with continuous effort with antibiotics his white blood cell count is dramatically high! He is currently taking two steriods a day and I am just wondering has anybody been through this before! He is sleeping a lot more and he is becoming more aggressive towards our other dog. The vet is pushing us to make a decision in wat to do with him but I am lost! Please I could do with some advice I am heartbroken.

anniehoo

Hi OP, i know you must be frantic but you need to get a second opinion asap. Your dog is very young to have lymphoma, its not impossible, he's just well below the normal age of 6-9 years.

Your dogs lymph nodes are enlarged all over (multicentric) but despite a needle aspirate, biopsy and blood test they still cant definitively give you a diagnosis 100% of lymphoma, but are saying it is anyway A cytology examination of the lymph node cells is the only way for sure to be able to diagnose this.

Is one of the steroids he's on called Prednisone? Have they discussed a chemotherapy protocol either with you yet? I know its a lot to take in sorry. The thing is if it is lymphoma, you do have the option of a chemotherapy protocol. Its long and expensive, with very little side effects but it can extend your dogs life dramatically. It wont cure it, but it can put it in remission for awhile. I went through this a few years ago with my own dog , who had B cell Lymphoma which is a slower growing neoplasm than T cell, but she was over 9 years old when she was diagnosed.

If you dont want to get a second opinion 3 things i would ask your vet to do:

• repeat the lymph node aspirate
• if hes unsure ask them to do this test
• explain what lymphoma is and what the difference is between a maintenance protocol (just steroids) and actual chemotherapy.

Themarts

Hi Anniehoo, thank you for your quick reply:-) it is much appreciated. I am living in Cork, Ireland and unfortunitly our vet told us that there is no Dog Oncologist in Ireland. She gave us the option of taking the ferry over to England with him) but we asked them to send his results over first to see wat they recommend. If they want to see him we will go over if needs be, the vet says when they see his results they may have different ideas. We are totally lost. Yes he has been on Prednisone for three weeks about now. They vaguely discussed IV treatment for him but I am terrified that he would be very unwell! They told us that because he is young he wouldn't respond as well to treatment as it would be very aggressive, apparently like a child. I would hate for him to be very sick whilst undergoing treatment I'm not sure if anything is worth that. When they did his tests first day one vet was saying he did have it and the other vet said he didn't and it was only when his blood tests came back and his white blood cell count was so high that they both decided that it was either Lymphoma or a bone marrow disease, now they are mentioning just Lymphoma. Would they of tested him with that Cytology exam already? And if not how do i get him one??? How much does it cost?

anniehoo

If you are willing to travel to the UK, then theres no doubt you need to get a second opinion here first. My suggestion is to get a referral to UCD. That's where my dog was diagnosed, typed (into B or T cell lymphoma) and treated with a full chemotherapy protocol. In the UK they do radiation which we dont have here in Ireland.

But before it even gets that far you really need to get a correct diagnosis.

Themarts wrote: »

Would they of tested him with that Cytology exam already? And if not how do i get him one??? How much does it cost?

Yes, that would've been the needle aspirate of his lymph nodes that you mentioned. The problem with this is if cells are not extracted it will come back as "non diagnostic" or "inconclusive" so if your vet isnt used to doing this there's every chance they mightnt have done it correctly.

Get a referral appointment, if not in UCD somewhere that specialises in small animal medicine. Theres so many different chemo protocols, you will need to get a vet (fairly locally) to do this as its very time consuming. The full course is 18 weeks, pretty much once a week with a few breaks in between, so its alot to take on even if your vet is local.

bluecherry74

I'm really sorry to hear about your spaniel OP. My Vizsla was diagnosed with lymphoma at the age of 10 (she passed away in 2010) and had similar symptoms to yours. Your dog does sound very young though - I did a fair amount of research at the time and its a disease that usually affects middle aged or elderly dogs.

It also strikes me as odd that the biopsy was inconclusive, although I'm far from an expert. As anniehoo suggested, a second opinion might be a good idea. I'm in Cork and my vet is the Animal Care Hospital in Douglas - they were great to deal with when Chica was ill, I got a quick diagnosis and a ton of advice and support. If you decide to go down that route they would be well worth a call.

I was give the option of chemo and they assured me that it affects animals very differently to the way it affects humans - it doesn't make them ill in any way, it actually relieves their symptoms and prolongs their life (although it's not a cure). I have no idea if it affects young dogs differently though, again this is something you might wish to get a second opinion on. It is quite expensive too.

In the end I opted for steroids (Prednisone) as I didn't have insurance and they actually had a fairly dramatic effect on my dog's quality of life. She was symptom free within a day or two of starting treatment. The vet had to increase the dosage a few times when she started to slip but she always bounced back. It was only towards the very end that she became extremely ill and I had to make the decision we all dread, but I got to spend over 3 months with a happy, symptom free dog and I'm very grateful for that.

Themarts

Hi Anniehoo, thanks again for replying. He had got a few needle aspirations but they all came inconclusive. Do they have an oncologist in ucd? The vet did give us the option of going to Dublin but again she said there is no dog oncology specialists there either. Also in regards to chemo our vet told us that all dogs react differently and possibly side affects are blood in urine+ vomiting etc I don't know if emotionally we would b able dog included. Bluecherry74 also thanks for the reply. I also infortunitly don't have any pet insurance either, and I'm unsure in costs for chemo however I am willing to pay. He seems to be okay on his steriods at the moment he is taking two a day but his aggression towards our other day is difficult! He's definitely sleeping more now as being a springer spaniel he would have normally been hyper active! It's very hard to know wat to do. I might give animal care hospital a call for a second opinion alright thank you for your help

anniehoo

Themarts wrote: »

Do they have an oncologist in ucd?

Not a specialist solely for oncology, but there are small animal specialists who regularly see oncology patients, perform chemotherapy and stock all of the drugs necessary for this, which a lot of smaller practices wouldnt.

wrote:

Also in regards to chemo our vet told us that all dogs react differently and possibly side affects are blood in urine+ vomiting

As Bluecherry mentioned, animals react very differently i.e generally better than humans to chemo. Bar one or 2 bouts of vomiting you would never know my dog was getting any treatment at all.

wrote:

I also infortunitly don't have any pet insurance either, and I'm unsure in costs for chemo however I am willing to pay.

Im not going to lie, if it is lymphoma and you go the full chemo route...it is VERY expensive. Ballpark figure €1200-1300 if you go the full 18 weeks. Consultations, lab tests, drugs and hospitalisation charges will add up very quickly.

wrote:

He seems to be okay on his steriods at the moment

This is what is called "maintenance therapy" and is what most people opt for tbh due to the cost, effort and time consuming nature of the full thing.

wrote:

I might give animal care hospital a call for a second opinion alright thank you for your help

I think that's a good idea. An inconclusive lymph node aspirate definitely needs a second opinion. Good luck and hopefully its not as bad as you fear.

Themarts

Thank you for letting me know all that information it is good to know it all including the costs.
I don't think I would solely choose the maitenence therapy option on cost and because it takes time and effort. I would be very willin to do all this I am just unsure if it is worth the risk of sickness. I wonder is it a better option to spoil my dog with love and affection with the time that he has left. It's is so hard to know, I understand your dog reacted very well that I fantastic, but in my research I learned that unfortunately a lot don't too. It's frightening an I don't feel I have enough time to decide:-(
Thank you for all your help it is greatly appreciated x x

tazwaz

I replied to a diff post of urs but I'll throw my bit in here as well.
I think u should def get a2nd opinion, my vet had diagnosed my dog within a week of him having his tests done and there was no doubt about the results.
As for the chemo I don't think there's any vets in Ireland that are 100% set up for it (anniehoo I'm open to correction), my vet in youghal, co cork did say that by rights vets should keep the dog in for a day r 2 after chemo and collect all wee and poo for disposal and they're not set up for that.
I used have to bring my guys poo back to the vets for disposal and poor boiling water with domestos on areas where he used wee.
We had pet insurance so we tried the chemo, we would have tried it anyway to be honest after advice from anniehoo cause it worked for her dog twice if I'm not mistaken? It worked out just under 1500 with weekly blood tests and chemo. The chemo was amazing in that it was totally different than human side effects. He used be tired the day after it but was flying it for the rest of the week. Unfortunately it didn't work for my guy but it did buy us a few extra months.

bluecherry74

Themarts wrote: »

Thank you for letting me know all that information it is good to know it all including the costs.
I don't think I would solely choose the maitenence therapy option on cost and because it takes time and effort. I would be very willin to do all this I am just unsure if it is worth the risk of sickness. I wonder is it a better option to spoil my dog with love and affection with the time that he has left. It's is so hard to know, I understand your dog reacted very well that I fantastic, but in my research I learned that unfortunately a lot don't too. It's frightening an I don't feel I have enough time to decide:-(
Thank you for all your help it is greatly appreciated x x

I totally understand how hard it is to make that kind of decision. If I'd had insurance I think I'd have gone down the chemo route, but I didn't unfortunately and I couldn't really afford the chemo on my own. I can honestly say though, I don't regret my decision one bit. The steroids really made a difference and gave me a few months to spoil my dog and say goodbye.

Only you can decide what's best for your own dog though. Hopefully if you decide to get a second opinion you'll be armed with better information. Good luck... and please do let us know what happens!

Aru

tazwaz wrote: »

I replied to a diff post of urs but I'll throw my bit in here as well.
I think u should def get a2nd opinion, my vet had diagnosed my dog within a week of him having his tests done and there was no doubt about the results.
As for the chemo I don't think there's any vets in Ireland that are 100% set up for it (anniehoo I'm open to correction), my vet in youghal, co cork did say that by rights vets should keep the dog in for a day r 2 after chemo and collect all wee and poo for disposal and they're not set up for that.
I used have to bring my guys poo back to the vets for disposal and poor boiling water with domestos on areas where he used wee.
We had pet insurance so we tried the chemo, we would have tried it anyway to be honest after advice from anniehoo cause it worked for her dog twice if I'm not mistaken? It worked out just under 1500 with weekly blood tests and chemo. The chemo was amazing in that it was totally different than human side effects. He used be tired the day after it but was flying it for the rest of the week. Unfortunately it didn't work for my guy but it did buy us a few extra months.

UCD vet hospital has the facilities and the staff trained in oncology. None of them are to the required boarded specialist level but there are a number of vets on staff who are very familiar with using a number of different chemotherapy protocols in dogs. Every week there are several dogs in being treated for a number of different cancers. Lymphoma is one of the most commonly treated as it has a good chance to extend and improve quality of life. In a terrible way if I had to choose a cancer for my own dog to have it would be lymphoma as it is the most manageable in general with good responce to chemo or even just steroid treatments. Dogs unlike humans generally do not have a very rough time on chemo ,they have much fewer show side effects to the drugs and the response to chemo can be very good. I am not 100 percent but I suspect gilabbey in cork also offers chemotherapy and I think there are a few other practices that use some chemotharapy drugs.

IMO if you are looking down the chemo route for your boy and appointment to UCD would be my first point of call. They will class the Lymphoma with an ultrasound and with fine needle aspirates/biopsies. The illness can be graded and the grades given can give an indication of how far the illness has progressed and if chemo is used checking grades will show the response to treatment. THey will also talk you through your options. If you chose this route I would get a referral asap as unfortunately using predisolone long term before chemotherapy can effect the effectiveness of the chemotherapy treatment. However if chemo is not an option for whatever reason using the steroid prednisolone is a treatment in itself....just to make things difficult

However the one thing I am also wondering is did you ever actually get a conclusive result from his aspirates or biopsies? I would, just because im pedantic and always like to have a full picture with all posibilities covered I would seek a second opinion. Just on the very small off chance it could be another issue causing his lymph nodes to be coming back inconclusive and his bloods being off.....its highly unlikely to be anything else..i dont want to raise your hopes falsely as it is the most likely cause ...but he is quite young for lymphoma.

If you dont go for UCD go to a vet that is a specialist in small animal medicine and preferably offers chemotherpy so that they have in depth knowledge of the treatments. They may be difficult to get to but a second opinion in this sort of case needs to be able to deal with and look for more than just the common diseases.While vets across the country are very good oncology in dogs is still a relatively new area and somewhat specialised area in this country and not all vets have the same level of knowledge or experience with treating these cases.

Lateral

Hi there, reading this old thread with interest.

We await post op further cytology results over the next two weeks on whether our collie springs cross, ten years old, has a lymphoma or a round cell tumor.

Wondering can anyone who has experience of treating their dog with chemo tell me how many years or months this added to the dogs life?

I see a few references above to three months etc....we’d be hoping for way more!!

I appreciate all chemo protocols vary

Thanks!

cocker5

Lateral wrote: »

Hi there, reading this old thread with interest.

We await post op further cytology results over the next two weeks on whether our collie springs cross, ten years old, has a lymphoma or a round cell tumor.

Wondering can anyone who has experience of treating their dog with chemo tell me how many years or months this added to the dogs life?

I see a few references above to three months etc....we’d be hoping for way more!!

I appreciate all chemo protocols vary

Thanks!

Hi there!

So sorry to hear your in this situation it’s a very stressful time. I recently had a scare re: tonsil cancer with my dog and my vet said she was 85% sure and thankfully after bloods, aspirations , biopsy etc it came back as two massive abscess (infections) - so fingers crossed you guys lucky too and it comes back with positive results .. my worry lasted over a week and I can tell you it aged me - so I know the stress your going through.. best of luck and positive thoughts for you guys xx

I’m sorry I’ve no proper advice


Edited to say I just reread your post and your dog has already been diagnosed? Really sorry op

Hopefully someone on here can advise

ShaShaBear

Lateral wrote: »

Hi there, reading this old thread with interest.

We await post op further cytology results over the next two weeks on whether our collie springs cross, ten years old, has a lymphoma or a round cell tumor.

Wondering can anyone who has experience of treating their dog with chemo tell me how many years or months this added to the dogs life?

I see a few references above to three months etc....we’d be hoping for way more!!

I appreciate all chemo protocols vary

Thanks!

Our collie cross was diagnosed with lymphoma at almost 11 years of age. He became symptomatic a day or two before the vet visit, and was on death's door within a week, despite steroids. Obviously all dogs are different, but I don't think I'd put a dog through chemo for the sake of a few months, especially seeing how aggressive the illness can be!