Iarnród Éireann's audio announcements

davidlacey

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0723/visually-impaired-protest-over-rail-announcements.html



IE seem to be getting negative feedback from everyone these days....

juan.kerr

Off topic I know, but the onboard DART visual displays are also pretty poor. They are either not working or show the wrong station quite regularly.

Presumably they are there for the benefit of people who don't regulaly use the DART (i.e people who don't recognise the stops etc) so they should try to at least make them accurate.

bk

The downside is that audio announcements can be annoying for regular, sighted passengers. Specially with long announcement in both English and Irish.

I wonder if you could come up with an alternative system, where you had a very low power (thus shortwave) FM transmitter on board that broadcast the audio announcements at a standard frequency (e.g. 90FM) and was standard across all buses and trains and could thus be picked up by simple radio receivers.

Best of both worlds.

You could even add it to RTPI poles so they could tell you when the bus has arrived.

Stinicker

I think the system on the 22000 class railcars which run from Kerry to Dublin is more than adequate, if anything it is annoying if you are trying to sleep as everything they say is then repeated in Irish. There is also scrolling LCD screens on both ends of each carriage so I can't see a problem with that. Haven't used the Dart in a long time so can't comment.

davidlacey

i have to say as a regular user of the DART I think the standard has been on a steady decline over the past few years with the system calling all the stations on the northbound route if you are on the southbound train and vice versa.... I think the protest is a good idea but I believe it will fall on 'deaf ears' so to speak.

Run_to_da_hills

In the good old days of AEC Railcars, Cravens and MK 2's we did not have this problem of continuous annoying bilingual announcements every five minutes.



There are many of us like myself that have spent the last 40 years travelling to and fro the length of the country and we all know where the next station is, not to put our feet on the seats, that there is CCTV installed for our protection, that the dining car is in sutch a place, that there is an onboard trolley service, etc etc.

Why don't they reserve at least one or two silent carriages such as the car already reserved for non use of mobile phones for those that like myself that appreciate good old fashioned peace and quite on a train.

Zoney

bk wrote: »

The downside is that audio announcements can be annoying for regular, sighted passengers. Specially with long announcement in both English and Irish.

I wonder if you could come up with an alternative system, where you had a very low power (thus shortwave) FM transmitter on board that broadcast the audio announcements at a standard frequency (e.g. 90FM) and was standard across all buses and trains and could thus be picked up by simple radio receivers.

Or they could just do like other places do and have short announcements:

Instead of "This is the 15:30 hrs service from X to Dublin, serving A, B, C, D, E and F, passengers for J and K change at C" and then the notice about assigned seating, snack car, etc. (following by Irish)

Simply "This is the Dublin train", "Seo é an traein go Bhaile Atha Cliath" (i.e. the same info as on the destination display outside the train). And ditch the notices about assigned seating, snacks, etc. There should be staff on board to help any passengers with issues/queries. The assigned seating notice would have more impact if it was only played back on occasions where staff have had to move someone out of someone else's seat.

They shouldn't have to tell people when the snack bar/trolley service are in operation. They should begin on leaving the initial departure point and end at the destination. It's a nonsense the services that have a short poorly supplied service for a short bit in the middle. The announcements don't even always accurately communicate when the service has begun/ended.

The notices about other destinations and changes should be amply communicated off the train, in the stations themselves. Limerick Junction is about the only station that I've been to that seems to have persistant loud announcements, mainly because otherwise people end up in Dublin instead of Cork or vice-versa.

Announcements coming up to stops ("Next stop: X, change here for J and K") are critical and should be loud and clear. Any time the train is stopped unexpected for more than a minute or two, there should also be a clear explanation/apology given in distinct audio.

jahalpin

The major problem with the announcements on the trains is that they are in both Irish and Engish

The announcements in Irish are a complete waste of time and are of no benefit to anyone.

English is the functional language of Ireland and all important announcements should be in english only. All Irish people speak english and a high percentage of tourists would also have a functional knowledge of the english language

Victor

There is a need to communicate, accurately, succinctly and in a timely fashion. Bilingualism isn't an exclusively Irish thing - it is even common in many parts of the USA.

juan.kerr wrote: »

Presumably they are there for the benefit of people who don't regulaly use the DART (i.e people who don't recognise the stops etc) so they should try to at least make them accurate.

The audio is there for people who can't see or read the displays and the displays are there for people who can't hear or don't know how the station name is pronounced (Craughwell, Drogheda, Muine Bheag, Glounthaune, Dún Laoghaire, Leixlip, Howth Junction & Donaghmede, Dalkey). I'm sure there are much worse examples with the bus system.

A blind person might be perfectly familiar with the transport system, but if they fall asleep or the stopping pattern is disrupted, or there is a detour, then things become more difficult.

bk wrote: »

I wonder if you could come up with an alternative system, where you had a very low power (thus shortwave) FM transmitter on board that broadcast the audio announcements at a standard frequency (e.g. 90FM) and was standard across all buses and trains and could thus be picked up by simple radio receivers.

This would be problematic in a bus or train station. Assuming you have one transmitter per carriage, it needs a minimum range of 20 metres and more to allow for interference - that could be several platforms / bus bays away.

There is the loop system for people with hearing aids - but you would need to give hearing aids to blind / short sighted / not familiar with the name people .

bk wrote: »

low power (thus shortwave) FM transmitter

I presume you mean short range?

davidlacey wrote: »

i have to say as a regular user of the DART I think the standard has been on a steady decline over the past few years with the system calling all the stations on the northbound route if you are on the southbound train and vice versa.

This is sometimes down to the staff (typically driver) inputting the wrong train ID number into the signalling system. Bus some of the problems are mystifying.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the good old days of AEC Railcars, Cravens and MK 2's we did not have this problem of continuous annoying bilingual announcements every five minutes.

No, you just had random bursts of static interrupted by English.

There are many of us like myself that have spent the last 40 years travelling to and fro the length of the country and we all know where the next station is, not to put our feet on the seats, that there is CCTV installed for our protection, that the dining car is in sutch a place, that there is an onboard trolley service, etc etc.

And there are many people who aren't familiar with such things.

Why don't they reserve at least one or two silent carriages such as the car already reserved for non use of mobile phones for those that like myself that appreciate good old fashioned peace and quite on a train.

Possible, but that is relying on blind people not boarding that carriage.

Run_to_da_hills

Victor wrote: »

Possible, but that is relying on blind people not boarding that carriage.

Why should the whole train have to suffer the constant annoyance of bilingual announcements just because of a handful of visually impaired?

Keeping the loco end of the Cork train totally silent would make sense and would also encourage more passengers to travel that would appreciate quietness.

highlydebased

The current announcements for Intercity just need to be much more lean. Do away with the Ladies and Gentlemen welcome aboard and have a pleasant and comfortable trip etc. The shíte it spouts when arriving into Limerick too is hilarious- provincial, intercity, local and regional bus services along with taxies are available at the station...in fairness theres hardly a need to include it.

The bit about reserved seats is a waste too- if somebody ignores the reservation (where working) they probably won't pay attention to the announcements either.

Oscar Bravo

I know for a fact,that on the Westport line,the announcements are often turned off (espically Athlone-Westport) with the driver/checker announcing the change at Manulla for Foxford/Ballina. The constant announcements are just to annoying for passangers/staff.

foggy_lad

Many trains out if Connolly station especially at peak times have no announcements or even display of the destination or anything else!

The announcements on the 8100 DARTs seem to be accurate any time I've been on one. The 8500s are a whole different kettle of fish, in fact I think they've been broken more than working.

Rock of Gibraltar

Does anyone know anyone in this group complaining to IE? why aren't they complaining to Dublin Bus about the non existent bus stop announcements?
I've often wondered why Dublin Bus make no effort to let passengers know where they are along the route. Whatever about announcements over the speakers but not having displays on board indicating each stop is amateurish.
Also the bilingualism is tokenist nonsense.

bk

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Does anyone know anyone in this group complaining to IE? why aren't they complaining to Dublin Bus about the non existent bus stop announcements?

Usually on DB, blind people simply ask the driver to let them know when they have reached their destination.

Yes, an old fashion solution, but it does work.

LED screens would be good for tourists however.

NuMarvel

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Does anyone know anyone in this group complaining to IE? why aren't they complaining to Dublin Bus about the non existent bus stop announcements?
I've often wondered why Dublin Bus make no effort to let passengers know where they are along the route. Whatever about announcements over the speakers but not having displays on board indicating each stop is amateurish.
Also the bilingualism is tokenist nonsense.

It might be because a person boarding a bus can at least intereact with the driver and ask to be told when the bus is coming up to their stop.

With trains, a person with a visual impairment has no choice but to rely on the audio announcements.

Rock of Gibraltar

bk wrote: »

Usually on DB, blind people simply ask the driver to let them know when they have reached their destination.

Yes, an old fashion solution, but it does work.

LED screens would be good for tourists however.

Not just tourists or blind people but anyone who's not familiar with what ever bus route you're on or the area you're in.

Victor

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Does anyone know anyone in this group complaining to IE? why aren't they complaining to Dublin Bus about the non existent bus stop announcements?
I've often wondered why Dublin Bus make no effort to let passengers know where they are along the route. Whatever about announcements over the speakers but not having displays on board indicating each stop is amateurish.
Also the bilingualism is tokenist nonsense.

Bus drivers interact with passengers.

Train staff don't.

Bus drivers will make reasonable attempts to notify passengers of their stop if they are requested and tend to be particularly conscientious when dealing with passengers with mobility issues. Buses are gradually being fitted with location displays as part of the AVLS programme.

Mrs OBumble

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

I've often wondered why Dublin Bus make no effort to let passengers know where they are along the route. Whatever about announcements over the speakers but not having displays on board indicating each stop is amateurish.
Also the bilingualism is tokenist nonsense.

I made a 1/2 hour trip on a Dublin Bus on the weekend, in an area i'm totally unfamiliar with. From past experience, I have little confidence that the bus driver will remember to tell people when their stop is reached.

But a smartphone with google maps made it a pleasant journey, and saw us get off at the right place with no stress - and a better understanding of what else was in the neighbourhood.

And if you have a problem with bi-lingualism, speak to your TD. I'm pretty sure that it's a requirement of state-owned companies.

etchyed

Victor wrote: »

Buses are gradually being fitted with location displays as part of the AVLS programme.

Are they? Since when?

EV37 has displays fitted and even trialled making audible announcements on the 123 route. The last few times I've been on it, both were out of use though.

etchyed

Karsini wrote: »

EV37 has displays fitted and even trialled making audible announcements on the 123 route.

I'm aware of that. Victor's post implies that there is a rollout in progress to the entire fleet, when, to the best of my knowledge, there are just a couple of buses on a trial and no further plans. I'm open to correction on that, of course.

efb

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why should the whole train have to suffer the constant annoyance of bilingual announcements just because of a handful of visually impaired?

Keeping the loco end of the Cork train totally silent would make sense and would also encourage more passengers to travel that would appreciate quietness.

Oh my, I don't actually believe this quote!

kingshankly

foggy_lad wrote: »

Many trains out if Connolly station especially at peak times have no announcements or even display of the destination or anything else!

That is simply not true it is very rare for a train not to have a destination displayed

Run_to_da_hills

efb wrote: »

Oh my, I don't actually believe this quote!

Why? I can't see anything wrong with it.

There are several reasons why the blind or any impaired should be reserved to certain designated carriages and in particularly if they are unassisted.

In the case of an emergency evacuation staff will know exactly where they located on the train.

If they need assistance when disembarking staff will know where they are, ie where to position wheelchair ramps etc.

If they needed assistance to go to the toilet or get provisions staff can be readily at hand.

foggy_lad

kingshankly wrote: »

That is simply not true it is very rare for a train not to have a destination displayed

I was in Connolly station a couple of weeks ago and saw the evening Longford train as well as 2 seperate dart sets and a further commuter train for Wexford without any destination displayed and the wexford train had no information inside either. Anytime I am in Connolly there is at least one train with no passenger information displays working.

efb

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why? I can't see anything wrong with it.

There are several reasons why the blind or any impaired should be reserved to certain designated carriages and in particularly if they are unassisted.

In the case of an emergency evacuation staff will know exactly where they located on the train.

If they need assistance when disembarking staff will know where they are, ie where to position wheelchair ramps etc.

If they needed assistance to go to the toilet or get provisions staff can be readily at hand.

It allows them to be independent- not more dependent on people. I travel on the train every day- I don't find it annoying.

bk

efb wrote: »

It allows them to be independent- not more dependent on people. I travel on the train every day- I don't find it annoying.

I however do find it annoying, as do many people.

That is why I suggested other solutions like using low power FM radio to deliver the same. Allows you to satisfy both groups.

Red Alert

The on platform announcements are unintelligible in Heuston also, even prerecorded ones about luggage. They should visit Birmingham new street station in the UK - now that's a quality announcement system.

efb

Every morning I hear the same pre-recorded apology as we arrive late at Heuston...on Platform 1!!!!

dublinbusdude

I seen on youtube before someone got a LED saying Galway for M3 parkway

Run_to_da_hills

efb wrote: »

It allows them to be independent- not more dependent on people. I travel on the train every day- I don't find it annoying.

Again that's a very selfish approach, a whole train from head to tail is destroyed with annoying noise just because a hand full of individuals want their bit of "independence"

efb

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Again that's a very selfish approach, a whole train from head to tail is destroyed with annoying noise just because a hand full of individuals want their bit of "independence"

ok

etchyed

And just in case anyone's in any doubt, yes, RTDH is for real.

Victor

kingshankly wrote: »

That is simply not true it is very rare for a train not to have a destination displayed

If only it would be the destination the train is actually going to.

Karsini wrote: »

EV37 has displays fitted and even trialled making audible announcements on the 123 route. The last few times I've been on it, both were out of use though.

I though the whole of route 123 had them.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are several reasons why the blind or any impaired should be reserved to certain designated carriages and in particularly if they are unassisted.

The idea is independent mobility, not pigeon-holing.

In the case of an emergency evacuation staff will know exactly where they located on the train.

But in the event of an emergency, you don't necessarily want all the sight-impaired people in the one place.

If they need assistance when disembarking staff will know where they are, ie where to position wheelchair ramps etc.

Again, the idea is independent mobility.

If they needed assistance to go to the toilet or get provisions staff can be readily at hand.

You might be over-stating things. Most people can get to and use the toilet themselves, even if completely blind.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Again that's a very selfish approach, a whole train from head to tail is destroyed with annoying noise just because a hand full of individuals want their bit of "independence"

Dublin Bus estimate that 25% of their passengers have some mobility impairment, whether that is sensory impairment, movement difficulties, are elderly or very young - the list goes on. Not to forget the people who simply don't know where they are.

AngryHippie

Lesson from Brisbane:

Plenty of train etiquette signs


last 2 carriages on the train are silent. no announcements, no talking, just books, quiet ipods etc.

ON the rest of them the announcements are simple, this train is for (end destination, next stop (next station)

No screens on most, but a map of the line and a map of the network

RF loops for the hearing impaired, Platform attendants at most stations for wheelchair bound or visually impaired

Simple, works.

Buses are more of a free for all, but if you ask the driver to shout out at a certain stop, they will.



Beats the hell out woof woof woof woof Maynooth, woof woof woof woof Louisa bridge

Or a narky 46A driver forgetting about you until you done a lap of Dun Laoghire

UKJon

When we were using the DART on holiday a couple of weeks ago, we had surprise there was no electronic display telling you what the stations the trains served apart from the final destination were and that you don't get an announcement on board or on the platform telling you as such. We're use to this back home.

It's ok I guess if you know what stations are served, and use them regularly, but not idea for visitors in a rush.

In fairness we did fine the service to be efficiant and probably cheaper than an equivalent journey in Birmingham.

dfx-

Victor wrote: »

I though the whole of route 123 had them.

The WVs did.

EV38 has it upstairs and was working on the new to Summerhill 14 route a few months ago.

I don't think it's the same thing as was trialled on AV1 and AV415 years ago and which AV1 still has the display downstairs. Though as with a lot of things on the guinea pig bus that is AV1, it's not working..:pac: